PG: Survived in San Antonio

[Ice Man]

I love that 2011 Bulls team, but I've lost count how many times I cuss Boozer's name during that run.

It's an apt comparison. A lot of empty calories with both, although to give the appropriate credit their big bodies sometimes helped with interior defense, and both were/are adept & willing passers.

Career Per 36 stats -

18/10/2, 55% TS%
20/12/3, 54% TS%

Not much difference there. Vuc scores a bit more because he shoots a bit more and his extra size gives him a couple of extra rebounds. Actually, really only 1 rebound once you control for the faster pace of today's game.

[Ice Man]

call me nuts but I think he has fringe star potential.

"Fringe star" sounds like a stretch. Championship-quality rotation player is certainly possible, though. Say, a poor man's Jrue Holiday.

[sco]

Vuc with 24 points, 16 Rebounds, 5 assists, and 3 blocks. He hit the game sealing 3. One of his best games of the season. Where the Vuc haters?


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I don't hate Vuc, but we'd be a better team with a defensive C. I look at Hartenstein (who I campaigned for) and what he's doing and I get mad, but I digress. Vuc is a bumslayer. He is very capable of nights like tonight against lesser C's, but there aren't too many of them. I think the right thing for the Bulls (assuming we're stuck with him) is to make most of his minutes against the opponents bench C.

[BullChit]

Vuc with 24 points, 16 Rebounds, 5 assists, and 3 blocks. He hit the game sealing 3. One of his best games of the season. Where the Vuc haters?


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I don't hate Vuc, but we'd be a better team with a defensive C. I look at Hartenstein (who I campaigned for) and what he's doing and I get mad, but I digress. Vuc is a bumslayer. He is very capable of nights like tonight against lesser C's, but there aren't too many of them. I think the right thing for the Bulls (assuming we're stuck with him) is to make most of his minutes against the opponents bench C.

Same... nothing against Vuc at all but a defensive centre who can facilitate would be great... Man if only we had a time machine because Joakim Noah would be perfect for this team.

[RSP83]

When Ayo’s scoring is on, he looks like a championship piece. Most the time he’s off. If he can get that consistency up every game in the next 2 years, call me nuts but I think he has fringe star potential.

The key for Ayo to maximize his potential is by becoming more consistent threat from 3. He's shooting at league average (.360), which is why he's a more impactful contributor this year. Last year he only shot .312, and he was mainly invisible. But volume-wise, I don't think he can get it up much (he hit about 1 per game). And I don't think that's his game. So he just needs to be respectable like this year, but more consistent.

Ceiling-wise, without volume shooting ability and average handle, he's a role player at best. He's a speedster and a ball-hawk, he has a role in Billy Donovan's system. Look at Dalen Terry, everybody 6'5" jack-of-all-trades guard can play in Billy's system. Same with Ayo. And Coby before he elevates his game and breaks out from playing the same role.

If Ayo ever going to elevate his game to the next level, he's going to be a very different player from Coby. I don't know what it's going to look like for Ayo. The guy with similar feature as him that play at a very high level right now is Shai Gilgeous-Alexander. And no way I see Ayo ever reach that level. If I have to think of best scenario for Ayo, it's something like a poor man's Jrue Holiday.

[Ice Man]

If I have to think of best scenario for Ayo, it's something like a poor man's Jrue Holiday.

[Wingy]

call me nuts but I think he has fringe star potential.

"Fringe star" sounds like a stretch. Championship-quality rotation player is certainly possible, though. Say, a poor man's Jrue Holiday.

Agree. I didn’t get to see last night, but last couple games I watched I felt like he struggled with what’s supposed to be his bread and butter. On defense, getting stuck on screens and getting too easily beaten off the dribble. Then adding in little to no contributions on offense. I don’t see anything except rotation role player.

[drosestruts]

Not an inspiring win, but a win is a win. I do like how the team isn't folding/quitting when things start going awry.

Vuc's stat line obviously looks great - and yet I found myself shaking my head about his play so often. His box scores just aren't aligning to the eye-test for me. For a guy with 16 rebounds I feel like he left a lot of potential rebounds out there.

With Wemby now starting at center could Zach Collins be available via trade?

4-1 since Zach returned. Zach missed two wide open 3's late that would have sealed the game much earlier. Guessing tired legs in the first week back on the 2nd night of a back to back.

Spurs are so weird. Lots of Jeykl/Hyde with Vassell and Johnson - seems like they only get a good game from one of them at a time. And when either is having an off night shooting, they provide little else.

I do feel like people randomly shoot real well against us - both Kuminga and Tre Jones is back to back games had abnormally positive shooting performances.

We're at 19-22 with games against the Cavs, Raptors (x2), Grizzlies, Suns, Lakers, Blazers, and Hornets coming up. It's a lot of road games which hasn't been good for us on the season. I do think there's a clear path to going 6-2 over these 8 games. Plenty of winnable opponents.

A win Monday would be huge (as it's a game I predict we'll lose). Not sure if there's any reports on how long we're expecting Williams to be out or if it was just a no back to backs thing.

We're 4 weeks into Craig's injury which had a timetable of 8-10 weeks, so still going to be a while before we get him back.

[MrSparkle]

call me nuts but I think he has fringe star potential.

"Fringe star" sounds like a stretch. Championship-quality rotation player is certainly possible, though. Say, a poor man's Jrue Holiday.

Agree. I didn’t get to see last night, but last couple games I watched I felt like he struggled with what’s supposed to be his bread and butter. On defense, getting stuck on screens and getting too easily beaten off the dribble. Then adding in little to no contributions on offense. I don’t see anything except rotation role player.

Being beat off the dribble is just the way of the NBA these days (er, since 2000: blistering fast guards and banned hand checking). You just can't stop a prime Shai, Kemba, etc. from beating you. Younger Jimmy was also getting smoked off the dribble. Pretty sure if we had a Bam or comparable C, Pat/Ayo/Coby would be able to lock the fort as well as anybody. We offer free-cheese in the paint.

But yeah- Ayo drifts between completely useless offense and some remarkable games every so often. His first-step isn't Shai or anything, but somewhere between Jrue and Mann would be a good outcome. Honestly, once a player breaks that scoring wall, the sky becomes the limit. A year ago, I would've said Coby's ceiling as a star is pretty much out of question (despite his shooting ability), but now... I wouldn't put money on all-star games, but I totally see a path.

Lauri's ascent was honestly insane, despite his good rookie numbers. Fact is by year 4, he looked like a guy with no NBA position, a step too slow to be an on-ball threat, a hand's reach too short to be a defensive/rebounding threat, and too mentally soft to kill the rim. Not comparing prospects, but just saying - everyone's a wild card. I was cautiously high on him by year 2, but gave up entirely by year 4. Now he's a top-20 guy: wtf?

Ayo seems to have toughness and confidence, so with him, it's all about skills. The handles and shooting consistency are the 2 red flags. I see improvement this year in both areas, and his effort and health are consistent, so I like the (penny) stock. Glad we resigned him cheap. Top-75 player would be a nice feasible goal. His career thus far has totally been mid-late FRP worthy, so I'd stop judging him as a 2nd rd'r.

[Wingy]

Being beat off the dribble is just the way of the NBA these days

…

Ayo seems to have toughness and confidence, so with him, it's all about skills. The handles and shooting consistency are the 2 red flags. I see improvement this year in both areas, and his effort and health are consistent, so I like the (penny) stock. Top-75 player would be a nice feasible goal.

I agree, it’s unrealistic guys are going to simply stop penetration, so I’d stress the “too easily” part of what I posted. He has the ability to make life harder and just seemed like he’s had a few where maybe he’s not mentally as locked in, and usual sound technique is a little off.

I think his shot form is just too janky, and that really limits his offensive ceiling. Stand still c&s he can be fine, but add any movement from distance, I can’t foresee him ever finding consistency.

Regardless, solid young rotation piece scooped up in round 2 and resigned at a reasonable price. Ain’t nothin wrong with that.

[kodo]

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Remember when he was the 2nd best defender on the team?
I think we had a decent record back then.

[HearshotKDS]

Glad they got the win in tough circumstances for the team, but cant help feeling like FO is planning on going right back to the mid 3 like the Zach time out never happened. Still think one of demar or Zach has to go, feels like the team is once again low on gas while driving on the freeway and is deciding not to take the next exit with a gas station because "we dont need it yet".

[Stratmaster]

Orlando lost their 3rd straight. 8th place here we come?

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Win-Loss record aside, we're closer to the 11th seed than we are to the 8th seed, especially what we've been seeing over the last 5 games. So yeah, I disagree with Bill Simmons.

This team has fundamental problem to sort out. Whatever it is the "rock" that have been weighing this team.

The good thing, with Coby's emergence is we now have a pivot path. I can still see Zach being part of that pivot.

Yeah, but it's not the same.

The Bulls have been playing at a .600 pace for a good while now. The 2 teams below them, and Orlando, have been playing at a .300 pace. And on paper, the Bulls have more talent than any of those 3.

I'm not predicting anything, but just from the data points, I don't see Brooklyn or Atlanta passing the Bulls. I do see a real good chance the Bulls pass Orlando.

Then again, with Billy at the helm, the Bulls may disintegrate and bottom out, who knows. The rotations are ridiculous, and the misuse of the skills he has is egregious.

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[Stratmaster]

Y'all do remember the Bulls played last night and got into SA at 1:30 a.m., right?

Road win in a brutal back to back. I don't care who they were playing. I will take it.

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It taking OT vs Hornets, then again vs Houston, then having to play a "clutch" game with Spurs ... doesn't look good to fans that want to focus on things that don't look good.

Yes, I agree, we should have put each of those games away and that's something you go to the drawing board and figure out why it didn't happen.

BUT ... winning in OT against any team is winning in OT. Winning in the final 5 minutes of a "clutch" game (on the road) against any team still counts as a win. And a "clutch" win at that.

That's why at end of season they throw up those team records: "who is best in OT," "who is best in clutch games". No one is parsing through those and debating "well yeah, but this game and this game shouldn't really count because it was this team or this team."

Props to the team in the win. Pulled out one that probably should have been easier, but there were a number of great, composed, and impressive plays to make sure they still secured the win!

Its true but any fan or analyst that looks at the team will point out the issues. Sure a W is a W. But fans that look down the road, want to see consistent high level play.

It's like the reverse Bucks. The Bucks actually look far worse than their record. And alot would argue. that they look pretty vulnerable when it comes to playoff time. Not having Jrue will most likely rear its head.

I understand, and I don't mean to discount constructive criticism.

But if someone is looking for gane in and out consistency in the NBA from any team other than the elite teams, I have to ask if they have been watching the league very long.

It is so dependent on schedule, travel, road vs. home, who is dinged up, which team gets hot from 3 etc...

If Klay gets unconscious and his a bunch of 3's in a row... well, not the first time and won't be the last. Just like when Coby did it for a stretch.

There will always be games where bad teams play up to a good teams level. The key (and something the Bulls weren't doing until recently) is that in the end, you still walk out with the W. That's what the Bulls did.

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[Stratmaster]

Glad they got the win in tough circumstances for the team, but cant help feeling like FO is planning on going right back to the mid 3 like the Zach time out never happened. Still think one of demar or Zach has to go, feels like the team is once again low on gas while driving on the freeway and is deciding not to take the next exit with a gas station because "we dont need it yet".

Zach has certainly not given you any reason to think that, and really, neither has Vuc (his play style really didn't change much when Zach went out).

So yeah... Demar needs to go. Not addition by subtraction at all. He is great at what he does. It's addition by (hopefully) swapping a better fitting and younger piece.

Unfortunately, they have been trying to trade the wrong guy for a year and that guy got sick of it and said or get off the

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[nanokooshball]

Coby's ball handling and ball control getting to the paint for a score is a thing of beauty... almost James Harden-esque with his stopping ability and body control in the paint. Prior to last year all-star break, I'd always be afraid of him losing the ball, but he never does now.

But, I gotta be critical on Coby's defense on screens. For most of the season he had been doing a good job fighting the screen, but the last two games he died on the screen multiple times. Needs to get back to getting over on the 3 pt shooters so that Vooch/Dummond don't have to be so far out of position. Ayo also had these two games of not doing well going over the screen. I

I hope the scheme isn't to switch the bigs on those by Donavan

[FriedRise]

Couldn't tell in real time, but damn he stepped out of bounds lol

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[weneeda2guard]

Also expecting a loss in Cleveland but 1 thing we do have going for us is coby and lavine are both due for another great game.

As for last night game I think we are finishing up 4 games in 6 nights on a back 2 back having to fly out to San Antonio. Even without wemby McDermott etc tired is tired. We got up 18 but a Greg popovich coached team is not going to quit and the Spurs did actually just win their last 2. I give us some credit for losing the lead even being down later in the 4th then gutting out the win.

[R3AL1TY]

Caruso stays making high IQ plays on defense while giving you a good 3 ball and some assists. That's why I don't blame AK in being hesitant in trading him unless it's a very attractive deal.

[BloodyQ]

Caruso does some idiotic stuff on offense at times.

That one play where he ran into 3 defenders and threw up some crap while ignoring a wide open Coby made me throw up my arms