Bulls Ring of Honor 1/12/2024

[MikeDC]

I think there are two reasons he's still so actively detested that are distinct but slide by without much notice.

1. While Krause built two championship teams, if he'd actually had his way (which he loudly and belligerently lobbied for) he wouldn't have. Much of his success came from Reinsdorf at least partially knowing when not to listen to him. If he were actually on his own, Krause would have imploded much sooner and more catastrophically.

2. I think a lot of the subtext here is that Krause was a convenient henchman for Reinsdorf. Krause was the "bad cop" who Reinsdorf purposely let treat his other employees like ****. Then, Reinsdorf would step in and... not necessarily be the "good cop" but would at least seem like the "non-crazy cop" by magnanimously electing not to, say, fire Phil Jackson after the 4th championship to bring in Tim Floyd.

There's an aspect of plausible deniability that all goes back to Reinsdorf there. MJ, Phil, Scottie and whomever else couldn't really touch Reinsdorf, but Reinsdorf was the guy who allowed Krause to **** with them continually, and Reinsdorf always (and still) loves him some Krause.

That is, Krause treated people like garbage and Reinsdorf was totally fine with it because it served his ends. In return, Reinsdorf protected Krause and saw him almost as an extension of himself. I think we all implicitly understand this, and a lot of the hate that's directed toward Krause is really aimed at Reinsdorf. Part of Reinsdorf’s continual aggrandizement of Krause is actually agrandizement of himself.

[Indomitable]

Booing is rude and crude regardless of the reason. It's for people who don't care about anyone but themselves, and think only their feelings and ability to express those feelings however they want are important.

Opinions vary on booing generally speaking, but I see it as paying customers expressing dissatisfaction with the product. Something which is totally reasonable for paying customers to do, and there aren't many ways a customer in this area can express dissatisfaction to affect change, but the two most effective are probably:

1: Booing regularly (and causing repeated embarrassment)
2: Not paying (causing financial losses)

For a fan that has season tickets and doesn't want to permanently give up on the team because they will never get the seats back if they give them up, booing is probably the only reasonable option to attempt to affect change.

As such, in general, I'd say booing at a sporting event is a reasonable response.

Booing a dead man would cross my boundaries, but if we were at a bar, and and it was on TV, and there was no personal connection of Jerry's there, then I still wouldn't boo him but I wouldn't think twice about someone else doing it either. The only thing that made this really unacceptable, IMO anyway, was the presence of his loved ones, which the Bulls failed to make clear in advance.

But again, people may have different tolerances there than me.

IMO it really doesn't matter that his wife was there. It's simply cruel to boo a dead man in this context, ESPECIALLY one that was so unanimously disliked in his public life. It's trashy as hell to boo in that context. Totally different to boo individuals short term while they're alive. That can still be trashy, but isn't usually cruel like this. OBVIOUSLY people who loved Krause were going to see the boing or learn of it and be senselessly hurt by it.

Unfortunately, not everyone has class.

[kyrv]

Bulls_MIT, l appreciate your post. Just two quick comments on the American society angle.

1) Not sure how many if any people in many South or West Coast cities would boo a widow.

2) As far as overly emotional or classless fans, or just poorly behaving fans in general, American sports fans don't hold a candle to many many soccer fans worldwide. Take our rudeness, add some, then add a generous helping of aggressiveness.

Nobody booed his widow. We had no idea she was there until they showed her crying on the jumbotron. I'm sure someone else who was at the game can cosign this.

Thanks, but they really did, I believe you that it was not knowingly. They booed the dead guy who was the architect of two three-peats is better, not quite classy though.

[kyrv]

Booing is rude and crude regardless of the reason. It's for people who don't care about anyone but themselves, and think only their feelings and ability to express those feelings however they want are important.

Opinions vary on booing generally speaking, but I see it as paying customers expressing dissatisfaction with the product. Something which is totally reasonable for paying customers to do, and there aren't many ways a customer in this area can express dissatisfaction to affect change, but the two most effective are probably:

1: Booing regularly (and causing repeated embarrassment)
2: Not paying (causing financial losses)

For a fan that has season tickets and doesn't want to permanently give up on the team because they will never get the seats back if they give them up, booing is probably the only reasonable option to attempt to affect change.

As such, in general, I'd say booing at a sporting event is a reasonable response.

Booing a dead man would cross my boundaries, but if we were at a bar, and and it was on TV, and there was no personal connection of Jerry's there, then I still wouldn't boo him but I wouldn't think twice about someone else doing it either. The only thing that made this really unacceptable, IMO anyway, was the presence of his loved ones, which the Bulls failed to make clear in advance.

But again, people may have different tolerances there than me.

What I find so odd about the booing is its utter pointlessness. Who is the audience for this? Jerry Krause is dead and hadn't worked for the Bulls in decades. It's one thing to boo a poor performance on the court that's actually happening in front of you. It just strikes me as weird to think "oh yeah, I was so mad at that guy 26 years ago for breaking up the team. Let's boo!"

Good points, also didn't help that this came shortly after Jerry finally invited Jerry to the ring of honor.

[dougthonus]

I mean, sure, but one of those things is pretty obviously crappy to do in this context and the other isn't, so the sort of "both of these things are the same" argument feels a little thin to me.

I don't think they're the same, but fundamentally, it's a fan event and fans are expressing what they think of this choice. The Bulls did what they wanted while ignoring what fans want/think. They sided with Krause over Michael Jordan 25 years ago and side with him today still too. If you're going to throw Krause in the face of Bulls fans, then you should never expect a really great response. You want to honor him at a fan event against the wishes of fans, okay, go ahead, but again, don't expect a great response.

The only thing I think that was really wrong about it was that his widow was there, but again, that's on the Bulls for not better clarifying that situation and introducing her first.

I agree that there is a whole litany of reasons to think Krause was a bad GM, particularly toward the end of the dynasty, so I'm not disputing that. I just don't think booing his surviving family is a particularly productive way to express those feelings. What are the Bulls going to do? Decide "you know what, due to this feedback, we're no longer inducting Krause?" It's just sort of feckless.

Two main things:
1: People didn't know Thelma was there when the booing started and it quickly turned off/toned down when they did.

2: Absolutely the Bulls could stop trying to shove Krause down people's throats, but they won't because fundamentally they just see it differently.

And they can honor Krause however they want, but if they expect cheers for the guy from the fans, well pretty fair chance they won't get them.

[dougthonus]

IMO it really doesn't matter that his wife was there. It's simply cruel to boo a dead man in this context, ESPECIALLY one that was so unanimously disliked in his public life. It's trashy as hell to boo in that context. Totally different to boo individuals short term while they're alive. That can still be trashy, but isn't usually cruel like this. OBVIOUSLY people who loved Krause were going to see the boing or learn of it and be senselessly hurt by it.

The fact that he's so unanimously disliked in his public life is probably why you shouldn't bring him up publicly and expect people to cheer him just because he's dead. You should have some situational awareness of what's going on.

Again, I wouldn't boo him. I wouldn't boo him even were he alive. I'm just not surprised. A guy who is hated doesn't become loved by passing away.

[League Circles]

IMO it really doesn't matter that his wife was there. It's simply cruel to boo a dead man in this context, ESPECIALLY one that was so unanimously disliked in his public life. It's trashy as hell to boo in that context. Totally different to boo individuals short term while they're alive. That can still be trashy, but isn't usually cruel like this. OBVIOUSLY people who loved Krause were going to see the boing or learn of it and be senselessly hurt by it.

The fact that he's so unanimously disliked in his public life is probably why you shouldn't bring him up publicly and expect people to cheer him just because he's dead. You should have some situational awareness of what's going on.

Again, I wouldn't boo him. I wouldn't boo him even were he alive. I'm just not surprised. A guy who is hated doesn't become loved by passing away.

I'm not surprised, and I think the entire ring of honor thing is probably a poor idea, but there is a lot of room between booing and cheering, and the only people to blame for the booing and the hurt that that caused are the people who did it.

[fleet]

When did the practice of booing cross over into all these feelings? People are hurt to their souls. Been alive too long now. Seen it all.

[Stratmaster]

Who is the audience for this?
…. It's one thing to boo a poor performance on the court that's actually happening in front of you.

Jerry Reinsdorf.

This was literally a poor performance that was happening on the court right in front of them.

You think Reinsdorf planned that ceremony?

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[Stratmaster]

Acting like booing anyone in public is the only way to express dissatisfaction is insane.

Send letters. Post on Bulls and NBA sponsored sites. Buy another billboard.

Booing in public is simply degenerate boorish mob mentality behavior. There are people around you trying to enjoy an event. Did you think about them? They paid for tickets too.

How about the children around you. Great example for them?

The idea that your opinion is so important it supercedes everything else happening around you is sad. That it's OK to ruin the enjoyment of others because you have some manufactured sense of entitlement and grievance.

It's only compounded when it's done over something as trivial as a sports team.

I did it once at a concert when I was 21. Every time I think about it I cringe in shame. There were other people there enjoying the event they were at. But my opinion was more important, right?

Maybe someday you will be recognized for a huge life achievement publicly with your family, and everyone who decided you aren't all that will decide to boo you.

Everyone is an **** at some point in their life. It's not like I am indicting anyone for one act of idiocy and boorish behavior. But let's not push the blame on someone else. They were idiotic dolts.

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[jacoby1us]

The execution of this ceremony truly shows how dysfunctional and out of touch this organization really is. This event was done with the sole intent to live off of the old glory championship days since our organization has been irrelevant from NBA dominance over the past 26 years with the exception of a few runs with Derrick Rose and company that fell extremely short.

Anyone with common sense that wrote the script for the MC would have ensured that they introduced JKs widow appropriately alerting the audience that the former GM is DECEASED and his WIDOW is here in his honor. Not to mention they could have conducted pregame/pre-ceremony announcements of fan decorum towards the Ring of Honor Recipients.

Ashamed is an understatement.

[Wingy]

My conclusion - some people suck, this is a half-assed org, and the fans should aim at the root cause and chant “Sell the team!!” like the Pistons fans did.

[Ice Man]

Honestly, I doubt that most of the people who booed could tell you why they booed. The booing Krause thing has become a item of Bulls fandom. You hear his name, you boo because that is what you're supposed to do. The guy in Madrid who wears the Bulls jersey and says "Michael Jordan" to you doesn't know anything about Jerry Krause. But you know that he's a villain, because you are an actual and true Bulls fan.

I think that's the mentality, by and large.

[kyrv]

Honestly, I doubt that most of the people who booed could tell you why they booed. The booing Krause thing has become a item of Bulls fandom. You hear his name, you boo because that is what you're supposed to do. The guy in Madrid who wears the Bulls jersey and says "Michael Jordan" to you doesn't know anything about Jerry Krause. But you know that he's a villain, because you are an actual and true Bulls fan.

I think that's the mentality, by and large.

I think you may have hit the head on the nail. Did the people booing think about booing beforehand or was it an automatic response, like politicians at a sporting event.

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I do credit that most people booing stopped after realizing his widow was there. Great to boo the dead person, good karma, at least they drew the line at the widow.