Bears 6.0 - Bear Witness to their 1st elite offense

[moorhosj]

I didn't trash Poles. I just said the majority of what he has done that you are really excited about wasn't by his plan. It wasn't. He got insanely lucky with the the moves that really moved the needle. I'm not sure he's done a great job of replacing 48 players on the roster either.

I don't think he got lucky in taking an old and expensive team and turning it into one of the younger, higher upside teams in the league. That was obviously his plan for the get-go and was true before they "lucked" into the #1 pick. They finished 5-3 last year without Caleb and would have had 2 high first rounders this year even if the Panthers weren't the worst team in the league.

He rebuilt the secondary, linebacking corps, and WR room. All of those move the needle, you choose to over-focus on the areas he hasn't completely turned around (Dline) and chalk everything else up to "luck". The Oline is up for debate and this is a big year for that group to prove it. The best part is that we have a 1st and 2 2nds next year to add to both lines.

[dougthonus]

I don't think he got lucky in taking an old and expensive team and turning it into one of the younger, higher upside teams in the league. That was obviously his plan for the get-go and was true before they "lucked" into the #1 pick. They finished 5-3 last year without Caleb and would have had 2 high first rounders this year even if the Panthers weren't the worst team in the league.

Without luck, he wouldn't have 2 1st rounders this year. Because the 2nd 1st rounder came from the luck of getting the #1 pick prior to that which literally every single person, every single reply, has completely ignored that he wasn't gunning for that pick, and the massive haul he got trading it was due to that luck that went against his design.

Outside of that, I agree that Poles plan (which I agree with) was to tear down an old team and bring in new pieces, and I think that was a good plan, because again, I didn't say Poles stinks. I am saying for me, what I'm excited about with the Bears is primarily the chance to have a franchise QB and some great WRs which are largely luck in Caleb/Moore and his moves for Allen/Rome. I hope he has done well in other areas, but I don't know that I'm confident in our defense or lines yet. If those areas prove out great, I will be convinced Poles is great.

He rebuilt the secondary, linebacking corps, and WR room. All of those move the needle, you choose to over-focus on the areas he hasn't completely turned around (Dline) and chalk everything else up to "luck". The Oline is up for debate and this is a big year for that group to prove it. The best part is that we have a 1st and 2 2nds next year to add to both lines.

I don't know that we have a great secondary or linebacker core or defensive line or offensive line, and I think we only have a potential franchise QB because he was lucky, and our present best of three good WRs was also due to luck.

If our secondary and linebackers prove out to be really good, and he eventually does well with the dline/oline, then hell yeah, I will be all in on Poles in addition to him getting lucky.

[Betta Bulleavit]

Why now and why anonymously? I just don’t get the need for the unnecessary smear campaign at this point. Most of the people that supported Fields have pretty much moved on. Most of the noise now seems to be coming from folks that seem to be attempting to satisfy some sort of insecurity about whether or not Caleb is really the guy. He looks the part. I think it’s just time to relax.

You’re right I was a Fields supporter and still is but my love is the Bears first and Caleb is my QB1 but folks needs to move on.

Negative. This was spoken about on Chicago Sports radio for hours yesterday, and all over the net. But we’re too sensitive over here.

Fair enough. Just as long as it’s understood that if it’s worth discussing, it should be valid to question the credence of it all as well. Right?

[fleet]

That’s what we’re here for sir.

[Betta Bulleavit]

That’s what we’re here for sir.

Okay, good.

So my take is that there certainly seems to be some fire to Fields and Foles not getting along. But I think that the toxicity was practically manufactured by bringing a rookie into a QB room that was likely going to be toxic to begin with because the two guys that were there were both (at least mildly) under the impression that they’d have a chance to start and being a mentor probably wasn’t what they signed up for. Therefore, while Fields actions are being talked about, we don’t really know how well Foles took to the mentorship role from the jump.

With regards to the deficiencies and “looking everywhere but seeing nothing”, my thing is, if those deficiencies were so prevalent (along with a poor attitude apparently) why was he not benched and why did we not draft a QB last year when we clearly could have? These things, along with the anonymity and timing make me question the credence of certain parts of this piece.

[Susan]

I don't think he got lucky in taking an old and expensive team and turning it into one of the younger, higher upside teams in the league. That was obviously his plan for the get-go and was true before they "lucked" into the #1 pick. They finished 5-3 last year without Caleb and would have had 2 high first rounders this year even if the Panthers weren't the worst team in the league.

Without luck, he wouldn't have 2 1st rounders this year. Because the 2nd 1st rounder came from the luck of getting the #1 pick prior to that which literally every single person, every single reply, has completely ignored that he wasn't gunning for that pick, and the massive haul he got trading it was due to that luck that went against his design.

Outside of that, I agree that Poles plan (which I agree with) was to tear down an old team and bring in new pieces, and I think that was a good plan, because again, I didn't say Poles stinks. I am saying for me, what I'm excited about with the Bears is primarily the chance to have a franchise QB and some great WRs which are largely luck in Caleb/Moore and his moves for Allen/Rome. I hope he has done well in other areas, but I don't know that I'm confident in our defense or lines yet. If those areas prove out great, I will be convinced Poles is great.

He rebuilt the secondary, linebacking corps, and WR room. All of those move the needle, you choose to over-focus on the areas he hasn't completely turned around (Dline) and chalk everything else up to "luck". The Oline is up for debate and this is a big year for that group to prove it. The best part is that we have a 1st and 2 2nds next year to add to both lines.

I don't know that we have a great secondary or linebacker core or defensive line or offensive line, and I think we only have a potential franchise QB because he was lucky, and our present best of three good WRs was also due to luck.

If our secondary and linebackers prove out to be really good, and he eventually does well with the dline/oline, then hell yeah, I will be all in on Poles in addition to him getting lucky.

They would have gotten a 2024 1st if they got the 2nd overall pick in 2023. Panthers were desperate for a QB - trading from 9 to 2 would require at least 2 firsts (look at SF's trade in 2021 for an example, took 2 future 1sts + the 12th overall pick). There were other teams interested in trading up but the Panthers were the most desperate.

There was zero luck in the Bears having 2 2024 first round picks given that they were locked in on not taking a QB in the 2023 draft and trading back.

[TheJordanRule]

I don't think he got lucky in taking an old and expensive team and turning it into one of the younger, higher upside teams in the league. That was obviously his plan for the get-go and was true before they "lucked" into the #1 pick. They finished 5-3 last year without Caleb and would have had 2 high first rounders this year even if the Panthers weren't the worst team in the league.

Without luck, he wouldn't have 2 1st rounders this year. Because the 2nd 1st rounder came from the luck of getting the #1 pick prior to that which literally every single person, every single reply, has completely ignored that he wasn't gunning for that pick, and the massive haul he got trading it was due to that luck that went against his design.

Outside of that, I agree that Poles plan (which I agree with) was to tear down an old team and bring in new pieces, and I think that was a good plan, because again, I didn't say Poles stinks. I am saying for me, what I'm excited about with the Bears is primarily the chance to have a franchise QB and some great WRs which are largely luck in Caleb/Moore and his moves for Allen/Rome. I hope he has done well in other areas, but I don't know that I'm confident in our defense or lines yet. If those areas prove out great, I will be convinced Poles is great.

He rebuilt the secondary, linebacking corps, and WR room. All of those move the needle, you choose to over-focus on the areas he hasn't completely turned around (Dline) and chalk everything else up to "luck". The Oline is up for debate and this is a big year for that group to prove it. The best part is that we have a 1st and 2 2nds next year to add to both lines.

I don't know that we have a great secondary or linebacker core or defensive line or offensive line, and I think we only have a potential franchise QB because he was lucky, and our present best of three good WRs was also due to luck.

If our secondary and linebackers prove out to be really good, and he eventually does well with the dline/oline, then hell yeah, I will be all in on Poles in addition to him getting lucky.

Keenan Allen was jettisoned by the Chargers due to cap constraints, so that scenario was lucky... but why didn't Allen end up in a Packers jersey, or a Cowboys jersey or a Tampa jersey? Poles might've had something to do with that. Rome was a lucky grab in the draft? You yourself have even said that, by making that deal with the Panthers, we were likely going to have two Top 10 picks even if we hadn't won the draft lotto. Well, Rome fell to 9. I put Rome down as a consequence of Poles' blockbuster trade, way more than luck. Am I wrong? Also, DJ Moore was a lucky acquisition? Why? As far as I can tell, DJ Moore was an integral reason why we did that deal with the Panthers... evidenced by the fact that Poles turned down the substitution of another 1st round pick instead. Sure, Caleb fell into his lap, but most of this other stuff happened because Poles was so proactive.

[dougthonus]

They would have gotten a 2024 1st if they got the 2nd overall pick in 2023. Panthers were desperate for a QB - trading from 9 to 2 would require at least 2 firsts (look at SF's trade in 2021 for an example, took 2 future 1sts + the 12th overall pick). There were other teams interested in trading up but the Panthers were the most desperate.

There was zero luck in the Bears having 2 2024 first round picks given that they were locked in on not taking a QB in the 2023 draft and trading back.

That mitigates the luck on the last game and Houston winning, and I agree.

It ignores what I have said that at 3-5, Poles traded his 2nd round pick to bring in a player to evaluate Fields and get more wins. He then lost every game the rest of the way. Poles design was not to aim for a high draft pick that year. Some teams do have that as their goal.

I think by design, Poles figured he'd finish closer to the pick we eventually trade down to, and he already had his franchise QB in Fields (whom he gave another shot to despite having the #1 pick and what ended up being one of the best rookie QBs ever sitting there). By his design, you'd have this same team minus Caleb, Moore, Sweat, and Dexter which came from the Carolina trade (if I'm not mistaken though possibly I've got some picks flipped in there in terms of which 2nd went for Sweat/Dexter).

He did a nice job capitalizing on his own misevaluation and what happened afterwards, but that doesn't convince me he's really elite at what he does vs a guy who has done some good things, some bad things, and also had a lot of breaks come his way.

As I said, I'll be a huge believer in Poles if the other areas break his way. If he rebuilds a good defense / set of lines, and he capitalized on some breaks with the other stuff, I'll end up a huge fan. I don't expect anyone to do it without any breaks. Just the parts I'm confident are going well are more slotted in the 'lucky breaks' area right now than the 'master plan' area.

[moorhosj]

It ignores what I have said that at 3-5, Poles traded his 2nd round pick to bring in a player to evaluate Fields and get more wins. He then lost every game the rest of the way. Poles design was not to aim for a high draft pick that year. Some teams do have that as their goal.

We ended up that way because the team wasn't on the trajectory he thought. He brought in Claypool with the hope of juicing Fields and juicing wins. His evaluation on Claypool and Fields were incorrect (and again incorrect the following year when he passed on the chance to draft a franchise QB to give Fields yet another shot).

You just keep moving further back in time to try and turn your opinion into fact. He traded for Claypool the day after trading his best player (Roquan) for a draft pick. That doesn't seem like the moves of someone trying to "juice wins". The most likely interpretation is that he was trying to get Fields legitimate weapons to better evaluate him as a QB. That was a failure as you continue to remind everyone on a daily basis.

[dougthonus]

You just keep moving further back in time to try and turn your opinion into fact. He traded for Claypool the day after trading his best player (Roquan) for a draft pick. That doesn't seem like the moves of someone trying to "juice wins". The most likely interpretation is that he was trying to get Fields legitimate weapons to better evaluate him as a QB. That was a failure as you continue to remind everyone on a daily basis.

I don't keep moving back in time. I started the conversation, and I started it at this point in time, and everyone who has replied to it has ignored that and moved it forward in time instead, at which point, I move it back here, because it's an absolutely critical juncture that he did not aim for or plan for, but is the absolute basis and lynch pin of everything else.

It is the root of everything going on now. To deny that makes little sense. Did he purposefully plan for the root event of everything? I think the answer is no, clearly not. He could have. Many teams do plan to have that strategy, but he didn't (at least in my opinion).

If you think he planned for this event, then I agree it would all be part of his master plan. If you don't think he planned for it, then his master plan is basically the same team minus Caleb, Sweat, Dexter, Moore, and Fields as your starter still.

[moorhosj]

I don't keep moving back in time. I started the conversation, and I started it at this point in time, and everyone who has replied to it has ignored that and moved it forward in time instead, at which point, I move it back here, because it's an absolutely critical juncture that he did not aim for or plan for, but is the absolute basis and lynch pin of everything else.

It is the root of everything going on now. To deny that makes little sense. Did he purposefully plan for the root event of everything? I think the answer is no, clearly not. He could have. Many teams do plan to have that strategy, but he didn't (at least in my opinion).

If you think he planned for this event, then I agree it would all be part of his master plan. If you don't think he planned for it, then his master plan is basically the same team minus Caleb, Sweat, Dexter, Moore, and Fields as your starter still.

Claypool was traded for the day after Roquan was traded for a pick. This throws cold water on your entire premise that Poles was trying to juice wins when he acquired Claypool. You dismiss that fact, which is unsupportive of your premise, to try and argue about something else.

“Every good move Poles has made was entirely luck and every bad move was indicative of his abilities.”

[GetBuLLish]

“Every good move Poles has made was entirely luck and every bad move was indicative of his abilities.”

What's the point of a comment like this that clearly does not capture the point someone is trying to make? To me it's like a waiving a white flag.

[MissileMike]

Of course Poles got lucky. It's not a big deal- do you think the patriots dynasty wasn't based on a lucky 6th round pick? It happens and every franchise needs some lucky breaks to make it to the top. Poles got his lucky break, now let's see how it goes.

[Bulls69]

Why now and why anonymously? I just don’t get the need for the unnecessary smear campaign at this point. Most of the people that supported Fields have pretty much moved on. Most of the noise now seems to be coming from folks that seem to be attempting to satisfy some sort of insecurity about whether or not Caleb is really the guy. He looks the part. I think it’s just time to relax.

You’re right I was a Fields supporter and still is but my love is the Bears first and Caleb is my QB1 but folks needs to move on.

Negative. This was spoken about on Chicago Sports radio for hours yesterday, and all over the net. But we’re too sensitive over here.

No one is oversensitive but what’s the point? I trust Poles decision to move on from Fields like a true Bears fan I’m going to support our players plenty of players over the years I wanted the Bears to keep but they moved on from.


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[Bulls69]

You’re right I was a Fields supporter and still is but my love is the Bears first and Caleb is my QB1 but folks needs to move on.

Negative. This was spoken about on Chicago Sports radio for hours yesterday, and all over the net. But we’re too sensitive over here.

Meh, I don't really care about the skill assessment if his eyes were indeed all over the place, and I would love to hear to context of the conversation. But it is the anonymous part that bugs me. That is what makes it feel slimy.

Basically, if you are going take shots at the last guy, put your name to it.
If you don't want to put your name to it, STFU and move on. But that is why I'm curious about the context.

That’s the garbage I don’t like shows some balls be a man don’t hide like a coward.


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[Susan]

Why now and why anonymously? I just don’t get the need for the unnecessary smear campaign at this point. Most of the people that supported Fields have pretty much moved on. Most of the noise now seems to be coming from folks that seem to be attempting to satisfy some sort of insecurity about whether or not Caleb is really the guy. He looks the part. I think it’s just time to relax.

You’re right I was a Fields supporter and still is but my love is the Bears first and Caleb is my QB1 but folks needs to move on.

Negative. This was spoken about on Chicago Sports radio for hours yesterday, and all over the net. But we’re too sensitive over here.

On what show?

I was out and about all day and the full majority of the Bears convo was Caleb in the rookie mini camp. Besides that they were talking about the Cubs bullpen, I didn't hear a peep of Fields talk but I'm not listening to both stations at once so who knows.

Overall people seem over the whole subject on Twitter as well. This is the same report as Josh Lucas' report that the QB room didn't get along well in his rookie year. The end of the Nagy/Pace era was cooked and toxic well before Justin.

[nitetrain8603]

I don't believe anyone can argue that Poles was trying to compete or get as many wins as possible his first 2 years here. Quite the opposite. He was trying to tear things down to the studs. He was trying to reset their entire cap structure and he was trying to evaluate Fields, who he, nor anyone else in the organization, was sold on. It's strange to argue that Poles wasn't aiming for the first overall pick in 2023 when pre-season as well as all season long, everyone figured they had one of the worst teams on both sides of the ball in the league.

Was there some luck? Yes, the Texans winning the last game of the season. The difference between 1 and 2 is perhaps DJ Moore being added to the deal.

Was there luck involved when teams passed on Mahomes? Was there luck involved when the 9ers had the chance to draft the 49ers? What about the Patriots and Tom Brady? Of course there is since you can't control 100% of the variables. But those teams had plans and direction. Something the Bears have had since Poles came in the building. Thing is, just like with a QB, Bear fans are worse when it comes to realizing what they have and what they don't have. Hopefully we all learn better.

[Dominator83]

I’m with Fleet. Too soon in a need to talk about it way.

Two things are clear…

Fields has NO ANTICIPATION. This is what DJ has said over and over after playing with Caleb about what he has. Also inferring Fields had none.

Report above shows he can’t read the field. His eyes are everywhere as a result they are nowhere.

I think that you and Fleet both make valid points with regards to the “newness” of our current QB situation. We have a body of work on JF whereas we don’t with Caleb so perhaps that makes the JF discussion easier to have at the moment.

With that said, I despise anyone that could criticize a player in the way that this supposed “source” did while at the same time not being willing to put their name on it. It just doesn’t feel like the standup thing to do. Even if you are trying to protect yourself and your career, one could just opt to not say anything at all. Then there is the timing of it as well. Why now? At a time when this coach is presumably no longer here. Fields is no longer here. The integrity of it all just feels highly questionable to me.

Bottom line, I just wish we could be excited about Caleb while simply wishing Justin luck on his future NFL endeavors. Football aside, I believe JF is a good dude that doesn’t deserve to have his professionalism and character attacked on the way out the door. It’s cheap and tacky in my opinion.

Whoever this was, was probably asked the question and was brutally honest in his answer. Right or wrong.

Also, it doesn't appear that this coach attacked justin's character or professionalism. He slammed his playing ability as a football player. I don't recall anybody ever criticizing Justin Fields the man. It was Justin Fields the quarterback.

[Susan]

Read on Twitter

Keenan Allen, DJ Moore and Caleb Williams are Bears and this is them playing together in May. Much better to talk about than the luck of some butterfly effect move and the hit piece on Justin Fields.

[nomorezorro]

it really is something watching these meaningless hype videos and being able to go "oh there's dj moore. and there's keenan allen. and then we have a third top 10-quality receiver who isn't even in the video"

it is nice to not have to count on a tyler scott breakout year for us to have an adequate receiving corps