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jnrjr79 wrote:

League Circles wrote:Ayo should REALLY make oft-injured, aging, high value Caruso expendable this offseason in a trade, ideally a package deal for a more substantial player.

If you're a team willing to pay up for Caruso, you're probably a contender, so it seems unlikely a "more substantial player" would be coming back, as opposed to primarily draft compensation, unless the player is disgruntled or overpaid. Also, given Caruso's modest salary, it'd be fairly difficult to trade him for a more substantial player absent throwing other guys in the deal.

coldfish wrote:General kind of funny comment: AKME fell into success. By giving the 3 year to Simonovic and the 2 year to Ayo, they were forced to negotiate with Ayo early. Had they given Ayo the 3 year deal right off, they would be looking at a much bigger contract after this season.

kodo wrote:AK (or ME) also said they never even had Ayo on their board, they didn't work him out or interview him.
But they should get credit for outbidding Toronto to keep him in Chicago. Toronto wanted to sign (for cheap) & develop him, from the same source that said we were trying to trade Lavine last summer.

PaKii94 wrote:

HomoSapien wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:I'm trying to think of a player comparison for him for a similar archetype of player. The one that I have in my mind is jrue holiday lite BUT ayo doesn't have the opportunity to run the offense, ayos efficiency is better but much worse defense.

Caruso? But he's a much better defender and a much worse offensive player


Who is a rim driver, hits 3s, can move the ball but isn't a floor general, play defense but isn't game changing (caruso)? No names are popping up in my head.

I see some Dumars in his game, personally.

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

No doubt in my mind this guy is going to max out whatever his potential is. I think he has a good shot at becoming a consistent 15 and 5 guy.

Didn't watch dumars. Got any specific highlights that show Ayo like traits?

PJSteven22 wrote:

rosenthall wrote:
I think Leandro Barbosa is the best comparison I've seen so far. Big, long point guard who's very athletic in a straight line but doesn't change speeds well in the half-court. Strong defensively and decent floor general but not spectacular in that area. Solid rotation player that can play in good 5 man lineups in the playoffs but not a core player.

He’s nothing like Barbosa. Barbosa was a mediocre defender and a streaky scorer. Also Ayo is bigger than Barbosa. He reminds me of Dejounte Murray/E’Twuan Moore hybrid.

Yeah Barbosa in my head was a smaller 6th man scorer type. I didn't watch him much but never associated him with defense.

Moore is close but that's the more generic 3/d guard player. I think Ayo is already surpassed that.

Murray is also close but Ayo's offense is more efficient and his shot is looking better. Also when I looked into Murray apparently his defense is overrated (like Kris dunn when he played for the bulls).

But a better shooting Murray seems like an apt comparison. That's a high level player then.

othawhitemeat wrote:

jmajew wrote:I think Ayo is not the same player as Jimmy Butler, but I see his career going on a similar trajectory as Butlers. I think Ayo has the same work ethic as Jimmy. In year 3 Jimmy got a massive boost in usage and then year 4 he exploded. I think Ayo may be on a similar path. I don't think he will be an all-star, though I do think it is possible (10% probability).

Just saw this after my post in response to Duck. Dude has that legendary work-ethic.

I agree on the work ethic part. That's what attracted me to Jimmy and also Ayo that rookie season. Thing is I don't think Jimmy is a good comparison because Ayo doesn't have a knack for drawing FT and he is also not ultra low turnover (Jimmy's two elite killer traits why he's always a positive). Also Jimmy's defense was another level while he was developing (one of the best at guarding prime LeBron for 48 mins straight)

sco wrote:

GoBlue72391 wrote:The fact that we've got two young and upcoming guards in Coby and Ayo is one of the few bright spots of this season. I don't know what kind of ceiling I would put on Ayo, but I know at minimum he's a solid starter/great bench piece, but he'll almost certainly never be an all-star barring an unforeseen Coby-esque jump.

Maybe something like Kirk Hinrich as his ceiling. Though his defense isn't at Kirk's level and probably never will be, his offense will likely be a bit better. But numbers-wise Kirk was like a 15 and 6 guy in his prime and I can see that being a reasonable ceiling for Ayo, perhaps even a little higher.

Even after seeing this mini-upswing this season, I would be thrilled if Ayo became prime Kirk Hinrich. IIRC (which may be wrong) but isn't Kirk the Bulls 2nd all-time 3pt baskets maker (which I find more of a negative on the Bulls than a positive for Kirk).

From a team composition perspective, being able to have a good defender at the 2 spot next season if we are trotting DDR at the 3 next season is a great thing. Although I fully expect Zach back for at least half of next season.

Idk about Kirk comparison. Kirk was a more floor general, good shooter, and positioning defense. Ayo is more of a length defender.

2weekswithpay wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:I'm trying to think of a player comparison for him for a similar archetype of player. The one that I have in my mind is jrue holiday lite BUT ayo doesn't have the opportunity to run the offense, ayos efficiency is better but much worse defense.

Caruso? But he's a much better defender and a much worse offensive player


Who is a rim driver, hits 3s, can move the ball but isn't a floor general, play defense but isn't game changing (caruso)? No names are popping up in my head.

Bruce Brown? His 3pt percentage is down but he was 36% and 40% in the previous two seasons.

Does Bruce Brown have any playmaking chops? I think Ayo could be a PG but he doesn't have the opportunity right now.

MGB8 wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:I'm trying to think of a player comparison for him for a similar archetype of player. The one that I have in my mind is jrue holiday lite BUT ayo doesn't have the opportunity to run the offense, ayos efficiency is better but much worse defense.

Caruso? But he's a much better defender and a much worse offensive player


Who is a rim driver, hits 3s, can move the ball but isn't a floor general, play defense but isn't game changing (caruso)? No names are popping up in my head.

Gary Harris?

Eh he's a generic 3/d. Ayo is better already

FriedRise wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:I'm trying to think of a player comparison for him for a similar archetype of player. The one that I have in my mind is jrue holiday lite BUT ayo doesn't have the opportunity to run the offense, ayos efficiency is better but much worse defense.

Caruso? But he's a much better defender and a much worse offensive player


Who is a rim driver, hits 3s, can move the ball but isn't a floor general, play defense but isn't game changing (caruso)? No names are popping up in my head.

Josh Richardson

Generic 3/d. I think Ayo has more potential and is already more of a playmaker.


The comparison in my mind for Ayo is tough because I believe he is more than just a 3/d guy. I think he has good playmaking chops and I think once DDR is gone his midrange game should expand more.

I still think Jrue Holiday in my mind

Jrue with better shooting, better midrange, worse defense, less opportunity to run the offense. Like Jrue I think he can provide a bit of everything and just help the team WIN without needing heavy usage in a particular thing.

PJSteven22 wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:

HomoSapien wrote:
I see some Dumars in his game, personally.

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

No doubt in my mind this guy is going to max out whatever his potential is. I think he has a good shot at becoming a consistent 15 and 5 guy.

Didn't watch dumars. Got any specific highlights that show Ayo like traits?

PJSteven22 wrote:He’s nothing like Barbosa. Barbosa was a mediocre defender and a streaky scorer. Also Ayo is bigger than Barbosa. He reminds me of Dejounte Murray/E’Twuan Moore hybrid.

Yeah Barbosa in my head was a smaller 6th man scorer type. I didn't watch him much but never associated him with defense.

Moore is close but that's the more generic 3/d guard player. I think Ayo is already surpassed that.

Murray is also close but Ayo's offense is more efficient and his shot is looking better. Also when I looked into Murray apparently his defense is overrated (like Kris dunn when he played for the bulls).

But a better shooting Murray seems like an apt comparison. That's a high level player then.

othawhitemeat wrote:
Just saw this after my post in response to Duck. Dude has that legendary work-ethic.

I agree on the work ethic part. That's what attracted me to Jimmy and also Ayo that rookie season. Thing is I don't think Jimmy is a good comparison because Ayo doesn't have a knack for drawing FT and he is also not ultra low turnover (Jimmy's two elite killer traits why he's always a positive). Also Jimmy's defense was another level while he was developing (one of the best at guarding prime LeBron for 48 mins straight)

sco wrote:Even after seeing this mini-upswing this season, I would be thrilled if Ayo became prime Kirk Hinrich. IIRC (which may be wrong) but isn't Kirk the Bulls 2nd all-time 3pt baskets maker (which I find more of a negative on the Bulls than a positive for Kirk).

From a team composition perspective, being able to have a good defender at the 2 spot next season if we are trotting DDR at the 3 next season is a great thing. Although I fully expect Zach back for at least half of next season.

Idk about Kirk comparison. Kirk was a more floor general, good shooter, and positioning defense. Ayo is more of a length defender.

2weekswithpay wrote:
Bruce Brown? His 3pt percentage is down but he was 36% and 40% in the previous two seasons.

Does Bruce Brown have any playmaking chops? I think Ayo could be a PG but he doesn't have the opportunity right now.

MGB8 wrote:
Gary Harris?

Eh he's a generic 3/d. Ayo is better already

FriedRise wrote:
Josh Richardson

Generic 3/d. I think Ayo has more potential and is already more of a playmaker.


The comparison in my mind for Ayo is tough because I believe he is more than just a 3/d guy. I think he has good playmaking chops and I think once DDR is gone his midrange game should expand more.

I still think Jrue Holiday in my mind

Jrue with better shooting, better midrange, worse defense, less opportunity to run the offense. Like Jrue I think he can provide a bit of everything and just help the team WIN without needing heavy usage in a particular thing.

It’s not a 1 to 1 comparison it’s a hybrid. Physically he has the height and wingspan as DeJounte Murray but he similar in strength to E’Twaun Moore. Ayo can get to the hoop and has a similar midrange game to DeJounte not quite as good but maybe he gets close in his prime. Ayo is not the floor general that DeJounte Murray. He’s a similar caliber of shooter and defender to Moore. He’s solid/good in both areas but not elite.

Chi town wrote:Up to 41.7 from 3.

He’s on a heater.

Whats most impressive is the volume.

jump wrote:

Chi town wrote:Up to 41.7 from 3.

He’s on a heater.

Whats most impressive is the volume.

Peter Patton is a genius.

sco wrote:

jump wrote:

Chi town wrote:Up to 41.7 from 3.

He’s on a heater.

Whats most impressive is the volume.

Peter Patton is a genius.

Peter seems to have had a positive impact, to be sure, but "genius" is reserved for the guy who gets Vuc back over 36%.

sco wrote:

jump wrote:

Chi town wrote:Up to 41.7 from 3.

He’s on a heater.

Whats most impressive is the volume.

Peter Patton is a genius.

Peter seems to have had a positive impact, to be sure, but "genius" is reserved for the guy who gets Vuc back over 36%.

GoBlue72391 wrote:

coldfish wrote:General kind of funny comment: AKME fell into success. By giving the 3 year to Simonovic and the 2 year to Ayo, they were forced to negotiate with Ayo early. Had they given Ayo the 3 year deal right off, they would be looking at a much bigger contract after this season.

That was all part of their brilliant plan from our grade-A front office. Their foresight is unbelievable.

coldfish wrote:General kind of funny comment: AKME fell into success. By giving the 3 year to Simonovic and the 2 year to Ayo, they were forced to negotiate with Ayo early. Had they given Ayo the 3 year deal right off, they would be looking at a much bigger contract after this season.

Bandit King wrote:Bulls would still replace him with a real scoring guard if they had a chance.

Bandit King wrote:Bulls would still replace him with a real scoring guard if they had a chance.

Mbrahv0528 wrote:

Bandit King wrote:Bulls would still replace him with a real scoring guard if they had a chance.

Lol. Do tell.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Chi town wrote:

Mbrahv0528 wrote:

Bandit King wrote:Bulls would still replace him with a real scoring guard if they had a chance.

Lol. Do tell.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

Zach Lavine.

Lolllllllll