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DASMACKDOWN wrote:I agree for the most part. But essentially, no one will chose Jimmy Butler over Steph Curry.

Yes, that was my point, somewhat indirectly put. Caitlin is the rarer form of talent.

That said, if my team could somehow collect five Paige Bueckers (with a couple of them being bigs), we would never lose. So there's that.

If she doesn't deliver, the new WBNA viewers who came because of her will soon leave. But if she does have big-time pro game ... will that lead to permanently and significantly greater popularity for the league? I would guess yes but I do not know.

Ice Man wrote:

DASMACKDOWN wrote:That said, if my team could somehow collect five Paige Bueckers (with a couple of them being bigs), we would never lose. So there's that.

They don't have to be bigs, Paige would be a PF on the Bulls. In fact, the Bulls should have an exhibition against your team, 5 Javontes vs. 5 Bueckers. I've got the opening line at Bulls -110.

I would have done a fake GT/lineup page but it was too hard to get images to come up (not like I work in tech or anything). But in that vein, here is Clark as a freshman. That lady put in serious daily work while at Iowa.

Ice Man wrote:If she doesn't deliver, the new WBNA viewers who came because of her will soon leave. But if she does have big-time pro game ... will that lead to permanently and significantly greater popularity for the league? I would guess yes but I do not know.

Time will tell, but I think there will be an unsustainable spike, followed by a leveling out/decrease from there that’s still ultimately in a higher/better place than the league was. Caitlin’s the huge catalyst, but I think other stars in the pipeline (like Paige, JuJu) will help support and sustain that higher than it was before level. Angel’s made a name for herself, and Brink’s a star literally built for LA (if they take her at 2) plus her Curry family ties raise her profile in b-ball circles.

Overall it’s like the men’s game in that there’s simply more talent (sheer growth in population size), coaching/drills/tech easily available to raise skill level and social recognition. Might not make total sense, but I imagine there may be a Euro factor coming as well. Given US’s early adoption with Title IX, we got a jump, but the world is catching up in women’s sports. My anecdotal example is looking at USWNT in soccer’s past dominance vs. now where they have lots more competition on their level. Maybe that’s more about soccers insane worldwide popularity, but I suspect it’s a bit of both.

Wingy wrote:Might not make total sense, but I imagine there may be a Euro factor coming as well. Given US’s early adoption with Title IX, we got a jump, but the world is catching up in women’s sports. My anecdotal example is looking at USWNT in soccer’s past dominance vs. now where they have lots more competition on their level. Maybe that’s more about soccers insane worldwide popularity, but I suspect it’s a bit of both.

Spot on. There were 731 international women in D1 NCAA hoops in 2022, as opposed to 312 in 2012. And while I don't know for certain, my guess is they will bring a high-level skill set due to club training, as with the male international players.

Ice Man wrote:Spot on. There were 731 international women in D1 NCAA hoops in 2022, as opposed to 312 in 2012. And while I don't know for certain, my guess is they will bring a high-level skill set due to club training, as with the male international players.

Ah, cool. Thanks for digging up some data. Not particularly surprising. So to build on what I was saying, I think what I ultimately meant to get to is that it’s only a matter of time before we see the ladies versions of the Luka/Joker archetype to supplement the US-born talent.

Wingy wrote:I think what I ultimately meant to get to is that it’s only a matter of time before we see the ladies versions of the Luka/Joker archetype to supplement the US-born talent.

Starting to get there. Three of the top 10 players in assists this year in NCAA D1 women's hoops were foreign players. The passers are coming, and before long one of them will be a scorer too.

The Sky management make AK look competent.

Traded a bunch of stuff to go from #7 to #6 in the draft.

TheSuzerain wrote:The Sky management make AK look competent.

Traded a bunch of stuff to go from #7 to #6 in the draft.

Going from 8 to 7 I assume to get Angel Reese.

TheSuzerain wrote:The Sky management make AK look competent.

Traded a bunch of stuff to go from #7 to #6 in the draft.

I actually liked everything they've done this offseason...until that trade happened yesterday. It looked like we'd get an actual rebuild, but now it sounds like they're going to rush it by going all-in on this draft and counting on their (massive) capspace in 2025. It could still work out, but I'm not a fan either.

I am perfectly fine with that trade. You gave up a 2nd, a former 3rd pick, and the rights to swap first round picks to move up one spot and ensure the player you covets. A bit much but nothing to get work up about. If you walk out of the draft with Rickea Jackson and Angel Reese, then it's worth it, to me.

Jeffster81 wrote:I am perfectly fine with that trade. You gave up a 2nd, a former 3rd pick, and the rights to swap first round picks to move up one spot and ensure the player you covets. A bit much but nothing to get work up about. If you walk out of the draft with Rickea Jackson and Angel Reese, then it's worth it, to me.

Kamilla Cardoso is making a late push to be taken at 3.

Jeffster81 wrote:I am perfectly fine with that trade. You gave up a 2nd, a former 3rd pick, and the rights to swap first round picks to move up one spot and ensure the player you covets. A bit much but nothing to get work up about. If you walk out of the draft with Rickea Jackson and Angel Reese, then it's worth it, to me.

I mean the team is pretty terrible. We shouldn't be giving up a pick swap.

Rickea Jackson seems like a bum to me. Pass.

TheSuzerain wrote:Rickea Jackson seems like a bum to me. Pass.

For what it's worth, here were the TS% for the big-name NCAA guards -

Caitlin Clark - 61%
Rickea Jackson - 55%
Paige Bueckers - 63%
JuJu Watkins - 51%
Hannah Hidalgo - 54%
Rori Harmon - 57%

My first thought was that women's NCAA announcing has a ways to go, because those are big differences, and although I watched a bunch of tournament games, no announcers ever suggested these results to me. For all I knew JuJu was the most efficient scorer of the bunch. But truth is, she has a lot of work ahead of her. You can't just say oh she was a frosh and make excuses. Bueckers shot 63% as a frosh and Caitlin 62%, and they were both also on high volume.

So when I hear about how JuJu will be the next best player in the NCAA, I do wonder if those announcers have done the work.

The other thing to comment on is that not only is Rickea Jackson a significantly less efficient scorer than Bueckers or Caitlin, but she had a 0.8 turnover/assist ratio, as opposed to 1.9 for Clark and 2.5 for Bueckers. Oh, and steals, which are an important indicator in the men's game for assessing the NCAA to NBA transition, are 0.9 for 40 minutes for Jackson, 2.0 for Caitlin, and 2.8 for Bueckers.

Finally, I saw a draft report that called Jackson "the most WNBA ready" player in the draft (hmmm), but which admitted that she doesn't defend at all. But no worries, said the report, in the WNBA the coaches will make her learn how to defend.

So yeah, in summary, I agree with you about Jackson. I mean, I haven't seen her play so my views are merely impressions gathered from the numbers, but those are some big damn red lights flashing.

Also, no matter what indicator you use Paige Bueckers is effing elite. She is good at EVERYTHING.

Rickea isn't a guard. She's a forward with a lot of TOs and low assists.

seems like the obvious thing to hope for is coming away with cardoso (or brink, if the sparks pass on her for some reason) + reese

would be nice to get back into the sky after james wade killed my budding interest last year

So lame. ESPN+ says the draft hasn’t started…in English that is. Meanwhile they are broadcasting in Spanish just fine.

I actually have Spanish skills, but not how I want to take this one in.

(Think it’s just that most published reports are wrong and it’s only available on regular espn)

Sky go Cardoso. Solid.

Cardoso and Angel Reese? I'm definitely watching Sky this year.