Kings @ Bulls Postgame Thread: Its a hard-knock life..

[coldfish]

Morten, its not fair for me to speak for Tyrus' detractors, since I am not one. However, they tend not to care at all about stats. The contention is usually that his mistakes make life harder for the other players to the point where it overwhelms what direct production he has.

[jax98]

Morten, its not fair for me to speak for Tyrus' detractors, since I am not one. However, they tend not to care at all about stats. The contention is usually that his mistakes make life harder for the other players to the point where it overwhelms what direct production he has.

Well, that kind of thinking is just flat-out wrong.

I also know you're a Tyrus supporter, I was merely making yet another point on how his productivity can be game-changing.

I also would like to raise another point. I don't remember who, but somone argued me that the fans were bored because of the team in general and it certainly wasn't because Tyrus didn't play and make exciting plays. I agree somwhat, however last night was all Tyrus. I haven't heard the UC being that loud this season like after those 2 alley-oops last night. Tyrus by far got the biggest "ooo's and ahhh's". His 2 blocks on one possesion and 3 dunks were the 5 loudest responses last night. If that should give Reinsdorf any indication of what fans like, we'll see more of Thomas.

[molepharmer]

If anything Tyrus' mistakes should be minimized relative to the vets. He's not the one who has played 3, 4 or 5 years in the league and still throws passes away or bounces the ball off their foot or shoots off balanced shots or gets caught standing around.

[derf]

I think it is the same dynamic this year as the (thread) I posted last year. When he's in there the game revolves around Tyrus Thomas. Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not so good, but when he's in there one way or the other he is a game changer.

If he could get his game under control he could dominate games, but he's grown into his gifts late in life and he's developing at an atypical rate. Similiar examples of players who have grown signifigantly late in life would be

David Robinson
Scottie Pippen
Dennis Rodman

I've posted all this before, but I think it's important to remember that he is not following the normal developmental curve. Sometimes he does not apply his gifts in an appropriate way. That is IMO a big part of the reason for the wild swings in his performance.

[DuckIII]

Duhon had 7 assists on 2 turnovers. Thats a good thing. But the bottom line is the guy is shooting 14% from the floor as a starter and 13% from the 3pt line. He needs to ride pine.

Thabo has looked confident in the 2 recent games where he got minutes: Charlotte and Sacto. I honestly think its time to start him over Du for a couple of games just to see what happens. The schedule is soft, its a good time to expiriment with that given Du's atrocious play.

Thomas had one of his best games ever. I see some discussions about his mistakes, but I can honestly only recall one - the turnover of the break. I thought he had an extremely efficient game.

Thomas and Noah need a chance to produce. But its hard to give them consistent run because Wallace and Smith are producing the Bulls are winning.

Bottom line: The Bulls need to find a way to package Chapu, Du, and some other fodder for a 2/3 veteran reserve. It will free up minutes for the young guys and won't hamper team production at all. I think this is very important and realistic, since Chapu and Du would have value to a number of teams.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

It was like all my dreams came true. Tyrus played good minutes, produced, and the Bulls won.


Now, if we can just find a way to get Duhon's ass back on the pine. Lets throw Thabo out there as a starter and see what happens.

[BobbyBulls]

I like Boylan's philosophy of having a scoring big in (Gray/Smith) when Tyrus is in the game. This keeps the offense running smoother, less pressure on the perimeter guys.

They have removed the chains Skiles' had on Thabo. Play him instead of Du.

Did that spinning drive for a layup from Kirk actually happen? It was surreal.

[dougthonus]

I think part of the reason they don't want to throw Thabo out there is they want Kirk to play off the ball to start the game.

[coldfish]

I think part of the reason they don't want to throw Thabo out there is they want Kirk to play off the ball to start the game.

Well, the logical answer would be to start Gordon at point then. Of course, that apparently isn't going to happen.

The other logical question there is based on the observation that Kirk just isn't very good as a SG. He is even having trouble defending this year. If Kirk isn't a PG, then what the hell is the team paying him $48M for?

[DuckIII]

I think part of the reason they don't want to throw Thabo out there is they want Kirk to play off the ball to start the game.

Then start Thabo at point guard. I know you guys largely view him as a 3, but I view him as a 1/3. As bad has his shot has been, he can't possibly shoot worse than 14% like Du is, and he's by far the more versatile defender.

[Jim]

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Then start Thabo at point guard. I know you guys largely view him as a 3, but I view him as a 1/3. As bad has his shot has been, he can't possibly shoot worse than 14% like Du is, and he's by far the more versatile defender.

I totally agree ! I was surprised that you guys mentionned thabo passing ability as mediocre... I do think that is one of his strenghts !

But for sure, Thabo or not, Duhon cannot start the game ! we need do something !

[transplant]

When you shoot 36% and win, you just say thank you, shower fast and walk away clean.

I need more Thabo, less Duhon. If Sefolosha could become a genuine player, oh what a difference that would make.

[BrooklynBulls]

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Then start Thabo at point guard. I know you guys largely view him as a 3, but I view him as a 1/3. As bad has his shot has been, he can't possibly shoot worse than 14% like Du is, and he's by far the more versatile defender.

You start Thabo at PG, and the team has trouble getting into sets b/c Thabo isn't directing them, the team has trouble with TO's b/c Thabo makes bad decisions, the team cannot regulate the tempo b/c Thabo isn't good at it. Duhon, at the very least, does those 3 things, and his shooting, as ridiculously poor as it is, does not give enough reason to start Thabo, who is ALSO shooting a ridiculous percentage.

He had ONE game where he looked SERVICEABLE, at SF, btw.

I can't believe the overreactions on this board sometimes.
Let him be the 8th man for 2 weeks, and if he keeps getting better and better, then we'll talk. But starting Thabo could get us out of rhythm, and we've been playing fairly well recently.

[DuckIII]

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You start Thabo at PG, and the team has trouble getting into sets b/c Thabo isn't directing them, the team has trouble with TO's b/c Thabo makes bad decisions, the team cannot regulate the tempo b/c Thabo isn't good at it. Duhon, at the very least, does those 3 things, and his shooting, as ridiculously poor as it is, does not give enough reason to start Thabo, who is ALSO shooting a ridiculous percentage.

He had ONE game where he looked SERVICEABLE, at SF, btw.

I can't believe the overreactions on this board sometimes.
Let him be the 8th man for 2 weeks, and if he keeps getting better and better, then we'll talk. But starting Thabo could get us out of rhythm, and we've been playing fairly well recently.

I'd agree with you if Chris Duhon weren't shooting 14% on 4 assist per game. But he is. Thabo would likely do better offensively (who would possibly do worse?) and is clearly the better option defensively.

I'm just suggesting giving it a chance while the schedule is soft.

It can't get worse. And if he's as awful as you say he might be, then you yank him. We're already awful at the 1 to start games. Nowhere to go but up.

[BrooklynBulls]

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I'd agree with you if Chris Duhon weren't shooting 14% on 4 assist per game. But he is. Thabo would likely do better offensively (who would possibly do worse?) and is clearly the better option defensively.

I'm just suggesting giving it a chance while the schedule is soft.

It can't get worse. And if he's as awful as you say he might be, then you yank him. We're already awful at the 1 to start games. Nowhere to go but up.

Our confidence in Thabo differs greatly. You think there's no way Thabo can be worse, I can imagine plenty of them.

[dougthonus]

I'd agree with you if Chris Duhon weren't shooting 14% on 4 assist per game. But he is. Thabo would likely do better offensively (who would possibly do worse?) and is clearly the better option defensively.

I'm just suggesting giving it a chance while the schedule is soft.

It can't get worse. And if he's as awful as you say he might be, then you yank him. We're already awful at the 1 to start games. Nowhere to go but up.

There's no way he could shoot worse. He could turn the ball over a ton more, foul a lot more, and impact the game in other negative ways that ultimately make him worse overall.

However, I'm just pointing that out, I agree with you that I don't think Thabo would be worse than what Duhon is presently doing, and Thabo has a chance to be in our long term plans. If Duhon was playing well and Thabo was awful, I could see not playing Thabo (this actually was the case earlier), but Duhon is playing dreadful, so I don't see any reason not to let Thabo take most to all of his minutes until we see Thabo do something so bad that it makes Duhon's 14% shooting look good.

[DuckIII]

There's no way he could shoot worse. He could turn the ball over a ton more, foul a lot more, and impact the game in other negative ways that ultimately make him worse overall.

However, I'm just pointing that out, I agree with you that I don't think Thabo would be worse than what Duhon is presently doing, and Thabo has a chance to be in our long term plans. If Duhon was playing well and Thabo was awful, I could see not playing Thabo (this actually was the case earlier), but Duhon is playing dreadful, so I don't see any reason not to let Thabo take most to all of his minutes until we see Thabo do something so bad that it makes Duhon's 14% shooting look good.

On the bold part, you are correct. I just don't think that would happen.

I agree with your whole post.

[kulaz3000]

I knew that people would become more in favour of Thabo after last nights game. I can see the point in giving Thabo a try in the starting line up, but thus far our line ups have worked, resulting in a winning percentage... with the way our season is going i don't want to mess with that, not just yet.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

I knew that people would become more in favour of Thabo after last nights game. I can see the point in giving Thabo a try in the starting line up, but thus far our line ups have worked, resulting in a winning percentage... with the way our season is going i don't want to mess with that, not just yet.

I'd agree is I thought Chris Duhon was actually contributing to those wins. Guy hasn't made a shot in 4 straight games, and is only averaging 5 assts per.

[JeremyB0001]

I also don't see why you put Ben Wallace in at the end of the game, but a the same time, it ended up woring out okay this way, he hit one of his foul shots and had the big defensive play at the end. It always scares me when that works, because it means we'll stick to it longer when more times than not BW at the end of the game is probably not a good idea.

Wasn't it strange that Boylan brought Wallace in with about 90 seconds left? It's almost like he wanted to leave Tyrus out there but believes Wallace is entitled to play at the end of games or doesn't want to upset him.