Lonzo Ball Recovery tracking thread update p76 - Lonzo Has Started Sprinting!

[Stratmaster]

I believe Lonzo said it. I don't believe the front office or Lonzo meant it the way Doug is interpreting it. I mean, they already had Lavine and Vuc, and got Derozan and Ball at about the same time. I am sure they looked at the "Big 2", about to be "Big 3" and said "we need a PG to be a cog and make this work. That isn't building around Lonzo. It is the opposite of that. That is building around the Big 3 by adding a complementary piece.

You asked why Lonzo would say something positive and why fans might feel something differently.

I told you how Lonzo views the front office and why. Lonzo views them positively because his view is they did the best thing for him that any front office has done. Fans view them negatively, because whether they did the best thing for Lonzo, solely in Lonzo's mind, is really not a relevant factor in fan evaluation of the front office.

Lonzo's connection to the FO is fundamentally different from a fan connection and his view of them is not influenced primarily with the quality of the team they put together but on the relationship they had individually. It's apples and ferraris as a comparison.

So... the observers know better than the people involved in the business.

And then we will go on to talk about how "no players will come to Chicago because the organization sucks". And those players opinions will matter.

If people tried to play both sides of every subject to confirm their bias any more desperately on here, this would be a.... sports message board.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

[Stratmaster]

Does anyone actually think Lonzo will come back next year and contribute to team success?

I think there's a 30% chance - i.e. not likely, but definitely possible. I have the benefit of medical ignorance, but IMO, his problem is/was acute related to a particular ailment (vs. chronic degeneration). Playing that notion out, it is possible they solved the (nebulus ) issue, which would allow him to regain his game (which wasn't particularly tied to quickness or leaping).

If they solve the issue won't he be rusty? It'll be almost three years since he got hurt. How many players have had three years away from competitive basketball and come back to be productive?

Well... not many players miss 3 years at the age Lonzo is at. I'm not sure there is enough sample size to make the question meaningful.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

[Dan Z]

I think there's a 30% chance - i.e. not likely, but definitely possible. I have the benefit of medical ignorance, but IMO, his problem is/was acute related to a particular ailment (vs. chronic degeneration). Playing that notion out, it is possible they solved the (nebulus ) issue, which would allow him to regain his game (which wasn't particularly tied to quickness or leaping).

If they solve the issue won't he be rusty? It'll be almost three years since he got hurt. How many players have had three years away from competitive basketball and come back to be productive?

Well... not many players miss 3 years at the age Lonzo is at. I'm not sure there is enough sample size to make the question meaningful.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Because so few players have done it you don't think it's a meaningful question to ask?

Even if he recovers he'll still need to shake off any rust he has.

[dougthonus]

So... the observers know better than the people involved in the business.

Are you willfully ignoring what I'm saying?

Fans are judging the results of the product.
Lonzo is judging their treatment of him as a person.

Those are fundamentally unrelated things.

And then we will go on to talk about how "no players will come to Chicago because the organization sucks". And those players opinions will matter.

I've never said that and have almost always thought it was stupid. When the Bulls had Rose they got multiple players to take discounts to come here. Being good and competitive is what gets people to come.

If people tried to play both sides of every subject to confirm their bias any more desperately on here, this would be a.... sports message board.

I'm sure there people who are on both sides of the issue. They probably aren't the same people though. My opinion on AKME has been extremely consistent since the Vuc trade (they're absolutely awful), my opinion on the above issue about players coming here has also always been consistent.

Not to say I don't reserve the right to change my mind with new evidence, but if so, I will say that too.

[Stratmaster]

So... the observers know better than the people involved in the business.

Are you willfully ignoring what I'm saying?

Fans are judging the results of the product.
Lonzo is judging their treatment of him as a person.

Those are fundamentally unrelated things.

And then we will go on to talk about how "no players will come to Chicago because the organization sucks". And those players opinions will matter.

I've never said that and have almost always thought it was stupid. When the Bulls had Rose they got multiple players to take discounts to come here. Being good and competitive is what gets people to come.

If people tried to play both sides of every subject to confirm their bias any more desperately on here, this would be a.... sports message board.

I'm sure there people who are on both sides of the issue. They probably aren't the same people though. My opinion on AKME has been extremely consistent since the Vuc trade (they're absolutely awful), my opinion on the above issue about players coming here has also always been consistent.

Not to say I don't reserve the right to change my mind with new evidence, but if so, I will say that too.

We are both willfully ignoring what the other is saying.

You have discounted what Lonzo Ball said by attributing reasoning that he never stated.
Fans are horrible judges of players, coaches, and front offices, which is evident on this platform.
So do players or fans have better visibility and insight into the quality of the organization?
When I said play both sides, I was referring to spinning something in any direction to confirm a bias.

p.s. I never asked the question you said I asked. ("You asked why Lonzo would say something positive and why fans might feel something differently.") In fact, I didn't ask any question initially.

[robert76]

Gabriel Landeskog (NHL, Colorado Avalanche), who had the same surgery as Lonzo, but two months later than Ball, just resumed skating. From what I read, Lonzo is still not running, but he will this month.

[Wingy]

I saw LaMelo was out (already/again) tonight and that made me think of Lonzo.

Last report was that he was supposed to resume running in January.

https://www.si.com/nba/bulls/news/zach-lavine-and-lonzo-ball-to-reunite-in-los-angeles-but-not-in-the-way-the-chicago-bulls-had-hoped

“He’s doing a lot of, like, agility work right now.” -Billy

Oh dat sweet, sweet insurance money.

[HomoSapien]

Yeah, I saw KC talk about this on the Bulls Talk podcast. Though it wasn’t phrased like this, it feels like he’s fallen behind schedule. Supposedly he’s pain free though.

[Ben]

I saw LaMelo was out (already/again) tonight and that made me think of Lonzo.

Last report was that he was supposed to resume running in January.

https://www.si.com/nba/bulls/news/zach-lavine-and-lonzo-ball-to-reunite-in-los-angeles-but-not-in-the-way-the-chicago-bulls-had-hoped

“He’s doing a lot of, like, agility work right now.” -Billy

Oh dat sweet, sweet insurance money.

Maybe it'll turn out like in the first Karate Kid, where seemingly minor strength and agility exercises translate (against all logical expectation) to overwhelming skill and and success on the playing field.

[sco]

I saw LaMelo was out (already/again) tonight and that made me think of Lonzo.

Last report was that he was supposed to resume running in January.

https://www.si.com/nba/bulls/news/zach-lavine-and-lonzo-ball-to-reunite-in-los-angeles-but-not-in-the-way-the-chicago-bulls-had-hoped

“He’s doing a lot of, like, agility work right now.” -Billy

Oh dat sweet, sweet insurance money.

Maybe it'll turn out like in the first Karate Kid, where seemingly minor strength and agility exercises translate (against all logical expectation) to overwhelming skill and and success on the playing field.

He has the skill and BBIQ already, but the big question is whether his knee (and the rest of his body) can hold-up under the strain of getting in basketball shape and an 82 game season. I'm still rooting for the kid to make it all the way back (probably not as hard as AKME).

[DASMACKDOWN]

I saw LaMelo was out (already/again) tonight and that made me think of Lonzo.

Last report was that he was supposed to resume running in January.

https://www.si.com/nba/bulls/news/zach-lavine-and-lonzo-ball-to-reunite-in-los-angeles-but-not-in-the-way-the-chicago-bulls-had-hoped

“He’s doing a lot of, like, agility work right now.” -Billy

Oh dat sweet, sweet insurance money.

Maybe it'll turn out like in the first Karate Kid, where seemingly minor strength and agility exercises translate (against all logical expectation) to overwhelming skill and and success on the playing field.

He has the skill and BBIQ already, but the big question is whether his knee (and the rest of his body) can hold-up under the strain of getting in basketball shape and an 82 game season. I'm still rooting for the kid to make it all the way back (probably not as hard as AKME).

If he does come back and healthy, he would be lucky to play 50 games. They will be super cautious with it. Basically extra load management. No back to backs, strict min restriction. Possibly sit for 2-3 games if feeling a little sore type of stuff.

[FriedRise]

No pain is a good first step.

[Wingy]

Yeah, I saw KC talk about this on the Bulls Talk podcast. Though it wasn’t phrased like this, it feels like he’s fallen behind schedule. Supposedly he’s pain free though.

The article I posted talks about sprinting and I don’t equate sprinting with running. You’d think Billy could remember if he was doing some light running/jogging though.

Deep in my heart, sure I hold out that the Lloyd Christmas chance exists, but I actually know this dude’s never going to be a significant player again in his career.

AK’s probably on pins and needles on word of every rehab session. Does he trade him at the deadline for the latest win now-iest move he can find? Or does his likely delusional hope burn bright that Lonzo can come back and bail out his creation? He’s like that dude sweating with the red button meme right now.

[ChettheJet]

Yes I'd like weekly updates on how he feels and what he is doing. Just like a thousand posts around here, quite unrealistic.

It will be June 1st when I really want to hear how he feels and what he can do. To me I can see Lonzo slowing what he's doing. The no pain that we hear is a huge step that is a new feeling for him over the last 2 years and the fear in his mind has to be, is this lack of pain permanent or will it start up again. I can imagine him running in a straight line with the return of pain in the back of his mind. And I can only wonder when he feels strong enough with the straight line movement before he takes the mental and physical risk of cutting because he knows that's where injuries happen.

[MikeDC]

Guys... you need to step back, and probably do some reading about what Lonzo's surgery entailed. It's basically an 18 month recovery time to playing basketball (and that means low level recreational basketball)

The ramp up is extremely slow, and pushing things too hard risks undoing the benefits of the surgery. In short, there's no update that could be given (to you, to AKME, or to Lonzo himself that would be meaningful. Unless it's just "oh ****, this hurts", which means everything didn't work at all.

[jacoby1us]

We should just wait for quarterly or semi-annual updates. You guys are going to drive yourselves crazy.

[HomoSapien]

I think the thing here that’s concerning is that Lonzo himself said the plan was to start running in January. Per KC, Lonzo has never progressed past this point. Of course you hope they are taking it slow, but given how everything’s gone so far it’s concerning when he falls behind schedule.

[MissileMike]

I think the thing here that’s concerning is that Lonzo himself said the plan was to start running in January. Per KC, Lonzo has never progressed past this point. Of course you hope they are taking it slow, but given how everything’s gone so far it’s concerning when he falls behind schedule.

Is it really that concerning? This is already a lost cause.

[Wingy]

Guys... you need to step back, and probably do some reading about what Lonzo's surgery entailed. It's basically an 18 month recovery time to playing basketball (and that means low level recreational basketball)

The ramp up is extremely slow, and pushing things too hard risks undoing the benefits of the surgery. In short, there's no update that could be given (to you, to AKME, or to Lonzo himself that would be meaningful. Unless it's just "oh ****, this hurts", which means everything didn't work at all.

Posted because we reached the nearest timeline “milestone” that was publicly shared. Why would we not comp current reality against the one thing we were told?

No one in their logical mind ever expects Lonzo back. We talk about everything here. That’s just what we do.

[MikeDC]

Yeah, I saw KC talk about this on the Bulls Talk podcast. Though it wasn’t phrased like this, it feels like he’s fallen behind schedule. Supposedly he’s pain free though.

The article I posted talks about sprinting and I don’t equate sprinting with running. You’d think Billy could remember if he was doing some light running/jogging though.

To me, the common sense interpretation is that he probably is doing the latter. Like, when I hear "he's not sprinting yet" I assume that means he's probably jogging, and saying "sprinting" distinguishes that he's not going all-out. So he's not "behind schedule". Although really, there's no schedule here in the first place.

“He’s doing a lot of, like, agility work right now. He has not been cleared to fully sprint, but he is doing some more agility work. He hasn’t done any sprinting on the treadmill or straight ahead, but he is on the court [and] moving around,” Donovan said.

People want to parse through every comment, but really, neither Billy nor anyone else on the Bulls is gonna sit there and give a step by step accounting of what exactly a guy is doing, even if they do know all the details. Just because fans want to obsess over it doesn't mean that it's not an off-the-cuff answer that the team put no thought into whatsoever.