Around The NBA : 2023-24 Season #2

dumbell78 · Post #1661 » by **dumbell78** » Thu May 9, 2024 5:39 am

Yeah, no reason why guys like Achiuwa and Burks can't buy you a few minutes each. He was forced to plug in Achiuwa for longer because OG went down and honestly, he didn't look terrible.

7-man rotations and a couple guys playing all 48 minutes.....yikes.

ImSlower · Post #1662 » by **ImSlower** » Thu May 9, 2024 6:10 am

I absolutely agree Kulaz. I love Thibs old school defense first, all intensity resilience. I'm just shocked he only trusts 7 guys and not 9. It's just baffling to me he has to rely on Josh Hart for 48 minutes. I like that dude! But come on! Your #8 guy is so inferior that he can't give your main glue guy a four minute break? Good God Tommy

Post #1663 » by **HomoSapien** » Thu May 9, 2024 9:26 am

It's a real bummer that basically every single person the Bulls have sent away has had more success than the Bulls.

Thibs
Butler
Lauri
Bobby Portis
Gafford
Carter/Franz Wagner
Haliburton who we passed on.
Cam Payne
Derrick Jones Jr.
Max Strus
Luke Kornet
Otto Porter

Frankly, it's crazy. Is Chicago where careers go to die?

Post #1664 » by **Ice Man** » Thu May 9, 2024 11:27 am

kulaz3000 wrote:It's all great now because they are winning, but if one of his key players goes down at some stage in these playoffs, because he has overplayed them in a game he didn't need to, the same criticism is going to laid out on Thib's all over again

True, but will that be fair? Mitchell Robinson is out and he only played 25 minutes per game in the regular season. Randle is out and he played 35 minutes, which is typical for an All Star type. OG is now hurt and he also played 35 minutes per game. Although he did play a lot in the previous 4 playoff games, so maybe there?

Just saying the Thibs = overplaying injuries argument involves a lot of cherry picking, to fit the narrative.

Post #1665 » by **Ice Man** » Thu May 9, 2024 11:29 am

HomoSapien wrote:It's a real bummer that basically every single person the Bulls have sent away has had more success than the Bulls.

Thibs
Butler
Lauri
Bobby Portis
Gafford
Carter/Franz Wagner
Haliburton who we passed on.
Cam Payne
Derrick Jones Jr.
Max Strus
Luke Kornet
Otto Porter

Frankly, it's crazy. Is Chicago where careers go to die?

Mostly true, although there is some exaggeration, as several of those guys aren't any better than when we had them and when fans thought they were expendable. They just have become more highly regarded because they are now on winning teams. Also, there are counterexamples, like Thad who played great for us but went pffft after being moved, and LaVine who blossomed as a Bull.

But I cannot dispute your thesis, overall.

MrSparkle · Post #1666 » by **MrSparkle** » Thu May 9, 2024 1:35 pm

I still think the “big minutes equals injuries” narrative is balogne.

I think it can affect defensive effort, shooting percentage, lift around the rim… especially if your team is undersized or less talented (athletically/skill-wise). I’d also be much more hesitant with huge players, as their weight just puts them in such a higher risk category.

But Demar’s big MPG kind of demonstrates that if anything, it helps a player stay in a groove.

Hart didn’t seem exhausted in the least bit, the last 2 games, so I don’t see the issue. He can handle it… and they don’t rely on him for shooting or playmaking. AFAIC this Knicks team is the least talented (on paper) group in the playoffs, and they’re up 2-0.

Load management has not helped Kawhi, George, whatsoever. Meanwhile, Lebron plays big minutes at 40yo.

Rose’s ACL sucked, but it was a freak injury for a guy who had been nursing many injuries throughout his young career, and unfortunately wasn’t warming up, eating or stretching the right way. His next (meniscus) tear also happened like, 5 minutes into a game. Pretty ludicrous to ever blame Thibs for that.

BB is a high risk sport. Patrick, Phillips and Bitim averaged less minutes combined than Demar, and all 3 ended their seasons early.

drosestruts · Post #1667 » by **drosestruts** » Thu May 9, 2024 2:20 pm

New York playing a 7-man rotation with the highest drafted player being DiVincenzo picked at 17th overall and on path to the Eastern Conference finals is just amazing.

Even if you add in Robinson or Bogdanovic it's still all non-lottery late 1st/2nd round players.

Fuels my anti-tanking heart.

MrSparkle · Post #1668 » by **MrSparkle** » Thu May 9, 2024 2:52 pm

HomoSapien wrote:It's a real bummer that basically every single person the Bulls have sent away has had more success than the Bulls.

Thibs
Butler
Lauri
Bobby Portis
Gafford
Carter/Franz Wagner
Haliburton who we passed on.
Cam Payne
Derrick Jones Jr.
Max Strus
Luke Kornet
Otto Porter

Frankly, it's crazy. Is Chicago where careers go to die?

Demar’s having the best years of his career!

Common thread was trying to give undeveloped/pre-prime/injured guys the keys (and pressure that comes with that). Or making them play supporting roles for pre-prime/injured top options.

Minnesota for example… KAT was the laughingstock #1 option for 8 years… Now that he’s essentially an off-ball complimentary player and much older, he’s perfectly fine.

ChiefILL53 · Post #1669 » by **ChiefILL53** » Thu May 9, 2024 4:57 pm

That was one of my issues with Thibs; his stubbornness. There really is no reason that Precious and Burks arent in the rotation. Extend the rotation just a bit to give guys a rest (even if they dont look tired) and for a bit of a different look size wise.

Jcool0 · Post #1670 » by **Jcool0** » Thu May 9, 2024 8:26 pm

Read on Twitter

kodo · Post #1671 » by **kodo** » Thu May 9, 2024 10:13 pm

He's not the real reason that team isn't working, but no sane person is going to take on Beal's NTC contract not even AK. Coach change is the only move they have left.

Good luck finding someone who can actually control KD & Booker. That team clearly wasn't following Vogel's gameplan by his comments, and if the leaders don't follow the coach certainly the roleplayers won't either.

Repeat 3-peat · Post #1672 » by **Repeat 3-peat** » Thu May 9, 2024 10:18 pm

Read on Twitter

WookieOnRitalin · Post #1673 » by **WookieOnRitalin** » Fri May 10, 2024 2:56 am

Repeat 3-peat wrote:

Read on Twitter

Good luck Mike. The Suns are a god blessed mess.

Kurt Heimlich · Post #1674 » by **Kurt Heimlich** » Fri May 10, 2024 4:11 am

DJJ in the court on ot with luka and kyrie. We got the role players galore. We just painfully miss on the superstars eternally. Thanks Niko

dumbell78 · Post #1675 » by **dumbell78** » Fri May 10, 2024 4:27 am

Dallas all dinged up and injured, gutsy win in OKC. OKC still looks young and a couple years away.

Kinda OT but Shai gets the benefit of a lot of calls when he is attacking with the ball.

Post #1676 » by **Ice Man** » Fri May 10, 2024 11:34 am

Let's get this straight. Veteran NBA coach who wasn't much of a player, and who has one title to his name, with the title coming while running a team that had a former MVP, is fired for losing in the first round. He is replaced by a veteran NBA coach who wasn't much of a player, and who has one title to his name, with the title coming while running a team that had a former MVP. On his previous job, he was fired for losing in the first round.

I mean, come on.

WookieOnRitalin · Post #1677 » by **WookieOnRitalin** » Fri May 10, 2024 11:53 am

Ice Man wrote:Let's get this straight. Veteran NBA coach who wasn't much of a player, and who has one title to his name, with the title coming while running a team that had a former MVP, is fired for losing in the first round. He is replaced by a veteran NBA coach who wasn't much of a player, and who has one title to his name, with the title coming while running a team that had a former MVP. On his previous job, he was fired for losing in the first round.

I mean, come on.

Mike B was always very successful when Giannis was healthy. It's not a shock to struggle with your best player on the bench.

Vogel, meanwhile, had all three of his 'Big 3' playing and got swept. I would not say the two situations are directly comparable.

I will say that most NBA coaches are not successful in their second stints. I am not sure what the hit rate is, but it's probably about 50-50 and probably worse in the last 15 years. In the 80s, 90s, and 00s, more coaches got more chances.

Here's an interesting question, in the last 35 years, how many 3 team coaches are there?

Off the top of my head.
-Thibs
-Brown
-Adelman
-Kidd
-D'Antoni
-Karl
-Rivers
-Carlisle
-Riley
-Skiles

I'm sure there are a lot more, but that's what my database had.

Post #1678 » by **Ice Man** » Fri May 10, 2024 12:59 pm

WookieOnRitalin wrote:Mike B was always very successful when Giannis was healthy. It's not a shock to struggle with your best player on the bench.

Vogel, meanwhile, had all three of his 'Big 3' playing and got swept. I would not say the two situations are directly comparable. .

if coaching is the difference, then we'll see Phoenix be successful next year. I highly doubt that will be the case, though, barring a roster overhaul.

sco · Post #1679 » by **sco** » Fri May 10, 2024 1:27 pm

WookieOnRitalin wrote:
Ice Man wrote:Let's get this straight. Veteran NBA coach who wasn't much of a player, and who has one title to his name, with the title coming while running a team that had a former MVP, is fired for losing in the first round. He is replaced by a veteran NBA coach who wasn't much of a player, and who has one title to his name, with the title coming while running a team that had a former MVP. On his previous job, he was fired for losing in the first round.

I mean, come on.

Mike B was always very successful when Giannis was healthy. It's not a shock to struggle with your best player on the bench.

Vogel, meanwhile, had all three of his 'Big 3' playing and got swept. I would not say the two situations are directly comparable.

I will say that most NBA coaches are not successful in their second stints. I am not sure what the hit rate is, but it's probably about 50-50 and probably worse in the last 15 years. In the 80s, 90s, and 00s, more coaches got more chances.

Here's an interesting question, in the last 35 years, how many 3 team coaches are there?

Off the top of my head.
-Thibs
-Brown
-Adelman
-Kidd
-D'Antoni
-Karl
-Rivers
-Carlisle
-Riley
-Skiles

I'm sure there are a lot more, but that's what my database had.

I think a tough variable to throw in there is that many of those guys ended up with not good teams in their next stint. At least Mike Bud is going to a good team (despite their playoff performance).

Post #1680 » by **DASMACKDOWN** » Fri May 10, 2024 2:08 pm

WookieOnRitalin wrote:
Vogel, meanwhile, had all three of his 'Big 3' playing and got swept. I would not say the two situations are directly comparable.

I don't think you can use that narrative either.

Him getting fired was just on impulsiveness and well you cant fire the players.

If we, by all accounts, are praising the Twolves for being super impressive so far in the playoffs, then why would it be a shocker for them to to lose in a sweep? It wouldn't.

People were dogging the Suns for getting swept. Thats because they didnt know how good the TWolves actually were.

Yet they are now beating the Nuggets even worse then they did the Suns. If they dont turn it around tonight, its probably another sweep. If that happens, is it because something Malone did? Or is it because the Twolves just rose better and matchup better?

Vogul isn't great but he isn't the reason why they got sent home like that. The Twolves deserve alot of credit.

My guess is the owner always wanted Coach Budd and now he has the excuse.