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fleet wrote:

nomorezorro wrote:

fleet wrote:The part that we are missing in this conversation, is that there was no imperative to have 28 year old Montez Sweat on this team.

montez sweat was 27 years, 2 months old when we traded for him and continues to be 27 years old

How about after his birthday in September? What he is right now in April means nothing as far as that goes. He’s a older guy we don’t actually need in the present as much as we need a younger guy on a rookie deal in sync with this team’s timeline. And the money can be spent elsewhere when the time comes.

This is crazy! Spending on win-now older vets is precisely what you’re supposed to do when Caleb is on his rookie deal. The time to take the re-up in the draft approach is when Caleb is on his 2nd contract.

Anyone else get their Caleb jersey?

Fanatics had a deal for $44.99. 75% off.

jnrjr79 wrote:

fleet wrote:

nomorezorro wrote:
montez sweat was 27 years, 2 months old when we traded for him and continues to be 27 years old

How about after his birthday in September? What he is right now in April means nothing as far as that goes. He’s a older guy we don’t actually need in the present as much as we need a younger guy on a rookie deal in sync with this team’s timeline. And the money can be spent elsewhere when the time comes.

This is crazy! Spending on win-now older vets is precisely what you’re supposed to do when Caleb is on his rookie deal. The time to take the re-up in the draft approach is when Caleb is on his 2nd contract.

No doubt. But, #1, this Sweat deal was done even before the Bears had the top pick. And #2, burning high picks for expiring vets *Doug* in the process is not what you’re supposed to do, really ever. Unless you’re going for the Superbowl or bust this year in Caleb’s rookie season? The 49ers only spent a third rounder (Young deal), and they are the team actually in the rare circumstance for this pick burning to ever be advisable imo. This Bears team should soon enter a 5 to 8 year window of contention. Keep getting even younger via the draft in ‘24 for my money. Keep picking. Spend on top of that on what shakes loose in free agency. Reassess in ‘25.

JockItch43 wrote:

Susan wrote:

nomorezorro wrote:maybe i was confused about what point you were trying to make then, because in a subsequent post you said you would understand trying to add a 28 year old to this team because we're trying to win something over the next two years

the sweat trade was at least partially motivated by the idea that this was not a compelling draft class for edge rushers. considering that none went off the board between the 27th and 56th picks in the draft, that seems to be an accurate read, and having the 40th overall pick wouldn't have done much to help us address that particular deficiency on the roster

Don't forget to mention that Brian Burns cost more in both draft capital and AAV and they're roughly the same level player.

High end DEs just entering their prime don't hit the open market often and if they do - you're looking at competing with 31 other teams to get them to come here.

And odds are whatever team grabbed Sweat in a mid-season trade would do their best to lock him up so he wouldn't even hit the open market, just like the Bears did. Trading for him was really the only realistic shot.

If you had to have him. Arguably, you didn’t. A Flus on the hot seat did, in 2023.

This is kindve weird. Especially because these scouts have a great track record. I wonder what happened or was it mutual.

dougthonus wrote:

Dresden wrote:Just because a trade or a draft pick doesn't work out doesn't mean it was a mistake. You aren't going to be able to foretell what's going to happen with each move you make.

I agree. Thematically, trading draft picks for guys on expiring deals is something that I would say is almost exclusively a bad idea, and it seems to be one of Poles go to moves. The reason it is bad is because in a hard capped league, you win by having the best total value per dollar, and draft picks in the first 3 rounds typically have very high value per dollar, and FAs typically have very low value per dollar, this type of transaction then is highly likely to be a net loser in value per dollar.

As for luck, even if CAR had not ended up with the worst record in the league last year, that trade was still a huge win for CHI. Poles knew this would be a much better year for QB's than last year, and for waiting a year, he added DJ Moore, Tyrique Stevenson, Darnell Wright, and a '25 2nd round pick plus the CAR pick.

Poles was lucky to have the #1 pick to trade to Carolina, it took a colossal error on the part of Houston winning the finale for that to happen. When he had that pick, a franchise QB (Stroud) was available, and he didn't take him and instead gambled on Fields. Hopefully Williams is as good or better. Fingers crossed.

Hasn’t Poles said something about making a trade like that gives you the ability to sign someone you may not have had a chance to sign otherwise? I think there’s more to the equation thank just value.


Sent from somewhere you’ve never been.

Chi town wrote:Anyone else get their Caleb jersey?

Fanatics had a deal for $44.99. 75% off.

Yes sir!

Dresden wrote:From PFF (gave CHI an A grade overall):

Taylor — The Bears round out their draft with a key producer on special teams by grabbing a quality punter. Taylor earned a great 81.4 PFF punting grade after producing 35 punts inside the 20-yard and punting up to 67 yards.

Brad Biggs was touting for this kid prior to Day 3 of the Draft. He might have heard something from his sources. I like the move. Special teams can win you a close game or lose you a close game. His hang time must be good because returns on his punts have been minimal. And the more times he can pin an opponent inside their own 15 yard line the better.

jacoby1us wrote:

Chi town wrote:Anyone else get their Caleb jersey?

Fanatics had a deal for $44.99. 75% off.

Yes sir!

Bought one for both my sons and myself. Navy White Orange of #18. Will be fun wearing them each game day together. Out here trying to Dad. Bears have sucked so I haven’t been able to get my sons interested in them.

Almost Retired wrote:

Dresden wrote:From PFF (gave CHI an A grade overall):

Taylor — The Bears round out their draft with a key producer on special teams by grabbing a quality punter. Taylor earned a great 81.4 PFF punting grade after producing 35 punts inside the 20-yard and punting up to 67 yards.

Brad Biggs was touting for this kid prior to Day 3 of the Draft. He might have heard something from his sources. I like the move. Special teams can win you a close game or lose you a close game. His hang time must be good because returns on his punts have been minimal. And the more times he can pin an opponent inside their own 15 yard line the better.

PFF guys are anxious to see how his long load time translates. Assuming the Bears have a plan for it. IIRC, Gill had the same issue.

When the Bears traded for Claypool they were 3-5. Not tanking at the time.
And they weren't tanking at all last year. Neither move were a tanking team making win now moves.

fleet wrote:

nomorezorro wrote:maybe i was confused about what point you were trying to make then, because in a subsequent post you said you would understand trying to add a 28 year old to this team because we're trying to win something over the next two years

I still would have a conflicting emotional response to making a Sweat deal for the upcoming year. But the logic makes more sense now after the Bears seem to have a squad and quarterback in place that can conceivably win games. Although still a year early if you asked me for a deal like that.

the sweat trade was at least partially motivated by the idea that this was not a compelling draft class for edge rushers. considering that none went off the board between the 27th and 56th picks in the draft, that seems to be an accurate read, and having the 40th overall pick wouldn't have done much to help us address that particular deficiency on the roster

So we draft something else in the second round. Maybe T'Vondre Sweat is wearing Blue n Orange in OTAs this summer instead of Montez Sweat. I don’t know. We don’t HAVE to have the big contract older defensive end right now. I prefer the alternative universe where we have 2 more second round players and cap space instead of jumping at Claypool and Sweat.. I just don’t agree with the narrative that these were must do acquisitions of no other way to be better. Let’s look at what Poles has gotten out of the second round in years One and two. Dexter, Stevenson, Brisker, Gordon. Having some more of that, and the cap space, nothing wrong with that at all.

I'm starting to understand your vision, Fleet. You just want us to stockpile young talent patiently. But remember, skipping the trade for Sweat means we'd be betting on unproven high upside second rounders. As you pointed out, Poles does have an excellent track record in the second round, but every GM misses on picks occasionally, so while the new kids would likely to be talented, there's no guarantee that they would produce the way Sweat does, brother. The defense minus Sweat likely remains a bottom rung unit heading into the draft, with 'Reke's progression largely remaining unrealized. Also, too many kids can be a bit of a burden, Fleet. We need some veterans who can lead by example to keep the locker room focused and positive. Sweat has been an X factor, which makes him a building block that can be conveniently paired up with another star on the defensive line to really wreak havoc against the opposition. That said, the Claypool situation really was a mess.

Jaylon Johnson, Brisker and Stevenson
.v.
DJ Moore, Allen and Odunze.

Those head to head match ups are going to be fun to watch, as hopefully iron sharpens iron.

TheJordanRule wrote:

fleet wrote:

nomorezorro wrote:maybe i was confused about what point you were trying to make then, because in a subsequent post you said you would understand trying to add a 28 year old to this team because we're trying to win something over the next two years

I still would have a conflicting emotional response to making a Sweat deal for the upcoming year. But the logic makes more sense now after the Bears seem to have a squad and quarterback in place that can conceivably win games. Although still a year early if you asked me for a deal like that.

the sweat trade was at least partially motivated by the idea that this was not a compelling draft class for edge rushers. considering that none went off the board between the 27th and 56th picks in the draft, that seems to be an accurate read, and having the 40th overall pick wouldn't have done much to help us address that particular deficiency on the roster

So we draft something else in the second round. Maybe T'Vondre Sweat is wearing Blue n Orange in OTAs this summer instead of Montez Sweat. I don’t know. We don’t HAVE to have the big contract older defensive end right now. I prefer the alternative universe where we have 2 more second round players and cap space instead of jumping at Claypool and Sweat.. I just don’t agree with the narrative that these were must do acquisitions of no other way to be better. Let’s look at what Poles has gotten out of the second round in years One and two. Dexter, Stevenson, Brisker, Gordon. Having some more of that, and the cap space, nothing wrong with that at all.

I'm starting to understand your vision, Fleet. You just want us to stockpile young talent patiently. But remember, skipping the trade for Sweat means we'd be betting on unproven high upside second rounders. As you pointed out, Poles does have an excellent track record in the second round, but every GM misses on picks occasionally, so while the new kids would likely to be talented, there's no guarantee that they would produce the way Sweat does, brother. The defense minus Sweat likely remains a bottom rung unit heading into the draft, with 'Reke's progression largely remaining unrealized. Also, too many kids can be a bit of a burden, Fleet. We need some veterans who can lead by example to keep the locker room focused and positive. Sweat has been an X factor, which makes him a building block that can be conveniently paired up with another star on the defensive line to really wreak havoc against the opposition. That said, the Claypool situation really was a mess.

One thing that is worthy of mentioning when talking about Poles and picks: while he traded away two second round picks for vets (sweat, claypool), he also traded two vets for 2nd round picks (Mack, Smith).

biggestbullsfan wrote:

Read on Twitter

This is kindve weird. Especially because these scouts have a great track record. I wonder what happened or was it mutual.

That does seem a bit weird hmmmm.

IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:

biggestbullsfan wrote:

Read on Twitter

This is kindve weird. Especially because these scouts have a great track record. I wonder what happened or was it mutual.

That does seem a bit weird hmmmm.

That’s the difference between a Jerry Reinsdorf operation of loyalty above all else, and a first class operation that demands elite production. And yes, considering that the Bears might be a first class operation required a hard swallow to type it out. Whatever the dissatisfaction was, and maybe it was mutual idk, this is possibly a good sign.

This is what happens when you draft a punter in the 4th round some scouts are going to just get up and walk TF out of the building.

Chi town wrote:Anyone else get their Caleb jersey?

Fanatics had a deal for $44.99. 75% off.

That sounds like a good deal, but no. The only Bears jersey I have is a custom one with my own name and date of our wedding. My wife has a Packers version.

panthermark wrote:

Chi town wrote:Anyone else get their Caleb jersey?

Fanatics had a deal for $44.99. 75% off.

That sounds like a good deal, but no. The only Bears jersey I have is a custom one with my own name and date of our wedding. My wife has a Packers version.

Props to you for looking past her being a Packer fan. Must be true love.