Re: How Bad are AKME?
Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:51 pm
If akme or ak want to turn it around. Need to develop a plan/culture and find the players to fit it.
Sports is our Business
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2352703
Michael Jackson wrote:Am2626 wrote:ScrantonBulls wrote:People here legitimately think Krause was a bad GM. It's mind boggling to me.
To answer your question, AKME is horrendous. I don't see how you can give them anything better than an F. They've ruined the Bulls present and future. There's not much to be hopeful about.
This is all relative. From a decision making standpoint Krause was good but he still made some mistakes post Dynasty. He gave up on the first rebuild too quickly. You don’t trade away your best player in Elton Brand for an unproven high school prospect unless it is a LeBron Caliber Prospect which Tyson Chandler wasn’t. If he were a little more patient he could have built a formidable core with Brand, Artest, and Brad Miller.
Also part of being a good GM is creating a strong culture which was a fail. You don’t make enemies with the greatest to ever play the game. Krause’s ego broke up a dynasty prematurely.
Brand wanted out... He hated Krause talking about his Mom's hands and that is real. Krause creeped him out and he was offended from day 1. Artest... well he kinda needed to go. His first game after coming back from a broken hand he punches the scorers table, naked pullups in the locker room, best buy etc... That group had the talent but seemed they weren't going to mesh and Floyd was an issue too he wanted out of there by the end for sure, he looked like he welcomed a firing. Now the Artest Miller trade was poor value. Krause was desperate to get a name after his Big "3" plan failed in the most spectacular way. Hell it was a good idea and had he not alienated the Dynasty and just let them retire by attrition (likely would have happened after 98 especially with the strike) it very well may have worked. His damn hubris is what ruined him. He had great ideas, was a hard worker but his ego was just so out of control.
Dan Z wrote:Michael Jackson wrote:Am2626 wrote:
This is all relative. From a decision making standpoint Krause was good but he still made some mistakes post Dynasty. He gave up on the first rebuild too quickly. You don’t trade away your best player in Elton Brand for an unproven high school prospect unless it is a LeBron Caliber Prospect which Tyson Chandler wasn’t. If he were a little more patient he could have built a formidable core with Brand, Artest, and Brad Miller.
Also part of being a good GM is creating a strong culture which was a fail. You don’t make enemies with the greatest to ever play the game. Krause’s ego broke up a dynasty prematurely.
Brand wanted out... He hated Krause talking about his Mom's hands and that is real. Krause creeped him out and he was offended from day 1. Artest... well he kinda needed to go. His first game after coming back from a broken hand he punches the scorers table, naked pullups in the locker room, best buy etc... That group had the talent but seemed they weren't going to mesh and Floyd was an issue too he wanted out of there by the end for sure, he looked like he welcomed a firing. Now the Artest Miller trade was poor value. Krause was desperate to get a name after his Big "3" plan failed in the most spectacular way. Hell it was a good idea and had he not alienated the Dynasty and just let them retire by attrition (likely would have happened after 98 especially with the strike) it very well may have worked. His damn hubris is what ruined him. He had great ideas, was a hard worker but his ego was just so out of control.
Krause needed to be a better manager. That's part of the job (General Manager). If you can't do that then why are you even in the position?
I agree with you about everything you said above. I'll add that breaking up the dynasty should've been a fireable offense, especially the stuff he pulled with the coaching hire and telling Phil Jackson that he won't be back even if he goes undefeated.
Having said that, I did want to see what he could do after the dynasty team ended. He didn't do well, but I give him credit for taking risks.
dougthonus wrote:Krause hit three grandslams in his career:
Phil Jackson / Tex Winter plucked from no where
Scottie Pippen
Toni Kukoc
Ice Man wrote:dougthonus wrote:Krause hit three grandslams in his career:
Phil Jackson / Tex Winter plucked from no where
Scottie Pippen
Toni Kukoc
I think you have to add Rodman to that list. But yeah, Krause didn't have a high batting average. He just hit the ball very far when he did make contact. Dave Kingman he was.
MrSparkle wrote:I dunno- something to be said about Brand, Artest, Miller, Crawford… those were excellent pickups.
Ice Man wrote:dougthonus wrote:Krause hit three grandslams in his career:
Phil Jackson / Tex Winter plucked from no where
Scottie Pippen
Toni Kukoc
I think you have to add Rodman to that list. But yeah, Krause didn't have a high batting average. He just hit the ball very far when he did make contact. Dave Kingman he was.
dougthonus wrote:Maybe, but Jordan personally recruited Rodman, and Krause himself said the decision to get Rodman was ultimately left up to Phil and whether he wanted to put up with him. Rodman was 34 and available for nothing because he was a nut case. The move worked out because of Jordan/Phil, and ultimately was a good decision and Krause certainly didn't object or need to be talked into it, but it's kind of a unicorn situation too.
I'm not sure how much credit I'd give to Krause on that move in terms of why it was made and why it worked. Not a Horace situation where he actively tried to do something else and was blocked by the org, but definitely also not a Toni or Scottie situation where he personally had his fingerprints all over the move in a rare feat of sleuthing something out.
Ice Man wrote:Got it. I had thought that Rodman was Krause's idea. From your explanation, though, it sounds as if Krause should not get a fourth gold star for Dennis. He did well by not getting in the way, but if it wasn't his baby, then it wasn't his baby.
prolific passer wrote:Some probably knew that Krause was going to be a failure at rebuilding with so many bad draft picks during his time when the dynasty was going. Also I don't think it made him look good when Thorn took over the nets and turned them from a lottery team to back to back finals appearances in his first 2 years being in charge of them. I'm sure Jordan reminded Krause on a daily basis that he wasn't the one who drafted him and that had to get under his skin.
Dan Z wrote:prolific passer wrote:Some probably knew that Krause was going to be a failure at rebuilding with so many bad draft picks during his time when the dynasty was going. Also I don't think it made him look good when Thorn took over the nets and turned them from a lottery team to back to back finals appearances in his first 2 years being in charge of them. I'm sure Jordan reminded Krause on a daily basis that he wasn't the one who drafted him and that had to get under his skin.
Why was Thorn fired? It's so long ago that I don't remember.
You'd think that drafting Jordan would give a GM some leeway for awhile.
Ice Man wrote:dougthonus wrote:Krause hit three grandslams in his career:
Phil Jackson / Tex Winter plucked from no where
Scottie Pippen
Toni Kukoc
I think you have to add Rodman to that list. But yeah, Krause didn't have a high batting average. He just hit the ball very far when he did make contact. Dave Kingman he was.
prolific passer wrote:Dan Z wrote:prolific passer wrote:Some probably knew that Krause was going to be a failure at rebuilding with so many bad draft picks during his time when the dynasty was going. Also I don't think it made him look good when Thorn took over the nets and turned them from a lottery team to back to back finals appearances in his first 2 years being in charge of them. I'm sure Jordan reminded Krause on a daily basis that he wasn't the one who drafted him and that had to get under his skin.
Why was Thorn fired? It's so long ago that I don't remember.
You'd think that drafting Jordan would give a GM some leeway for awhile.
Who knows? Thorn and Jordan always seemed to have a good relationship. Thorn I believe was in charge of the dream team recruiting in 92 also.
prolific passer wrote:Dan Z wrote:prolific passer wrote:Some probably knew that Krause was going to be a failure at rebuilding with so many bad draft picks during his time when the dynasty was going. Also I don't think it made him look good when Thorn took over the nets and turned them from a lottery team to back to back finals appearances in his first 2 years being in charge of them. I'm sure Jordan reminded Krause on a daily basis that he wasn't the one who drafted him and that had to get under his skin.
Why was Thorn fired? It's so long ago that I don't remember.
You'd think that drafting Jordan would give a GM some leeway for awhile.
Who knows? Thorn and Jordan always seemed to have a good relationship. Thorn I believe was in charge of the dream team recruiting in 92 also.
Jcool0 wrote:prolific passer wrote:Dan Z wrote:
Why was Thorn fired? It's so long ago that I don't remember.
You'd think that drafting Jordan would give a GM some leeway for awhile.
Who knows? Thorn and Jordan always seemed to have a good relationship. Thorn I believe was in charge of the dream team recruiting in 92 also.
"Reinsdorf emphasized he was making the change because of a need to start fresh.
'One of the most difficult things is that I personally like Rod. If I had disliked him, it would be a lot easier,' Reinsdorf said."
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1985/04/06/Thorn-Loses-Bulls-Job-After-6-year-Struggle/6172481611600/
Dan Z wrote:Jcool0 wrote:prolific passer wrote:Who knows? Thorn and Jordan always seemed to have a good relationship. Thorn I believe was in charge of the dream team recruiting in 92 also.
"Reinsdorf emphasized he was making the change because of a need to start fresh.
'One of the most difficult things is that I personally like Rod. If I had disliked him, it would be a lot easier,' Reinsdorf said."
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1985/04/06/Thorn-Loses-Bulls-Job-After-6-year-Struggle/6172481611600/
You'd think that replacing him with a baseball scout wouldn't be a good move, but it worked out in the end (not perfectly...as per other posts in this thread).
Jcool0 wrote:Dan Z wrote:Jcool0 wrote:
"Reinsdorf emphasized he was making the change because of a need to start fresh.
'One of the most difficult things is that I personally like Rod. If I had disliked him, it would be a lot easier,' Reinsdorf said."
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1985/04/06/Thorn-Loses-Bulls-Job-After-6-year-Struggle/6172481611600/
You'd think that replacing him with a baseball scout wouldn't be a good move, but it worked out in the end (not perfectly...as per other posts in this thread).
He got his start as a scout with the Bullets.
Dan Z wrote:prolific passer wrote:Dan Z wrote:
Why was Thorn fired? It's so long ago that I don't remember.
You'd think that drafting Jordan would give a GM some leeway for awhile.
Who knows? Thorn and Jordan always seemed to have a good relationship. Thorn I believe was in charge of the dream team recruiting in 92 also.
I looked it up on Wikipedia. He was fired because Reinsdorf had recently bought the team and wanted to put in his own guy (Krause).
It ultimately worked out, but who knows what may have happened if Thorn kept the job...?
Dan Z wrote:Jcool0 wrote:Dan Z wrote:
You'd think that replacing him with a baseball scout wouldn't be a good move, but it worked out in the end (not perfectly...as per other posts in this thread).
He got his start as a scout with the Bullets.
Okay, that makes more sense.