Around The NBA : 2023-24 Season #2

[kulaz3000]

All things considered, Nuggets are a young team and Minny had the Jokic antidote. Multiple big men to throw at him.

Denver’s gonna have to shuffle some salary and get a more potent backup guard. They can’t be entirely dependent on Murray. It’s tricky cause MPJ sometimes lights it up, but he’s probably the first guy they should consider chopping for parts and salary flexibility (not to save money, but to replace him with depth).

Bones Hyland would have been a big help for him. They need a scoring punch. No one can get their own shot.

DDR would be such a good player for them.

They could have really used a spark plug like Bruce Bowen in a game like this. They definitely didn't have the depth that they had last season, but not by a significant margin.

Excuses aside, they had control of this game, and they came out of half time in a game 7 no less, extremely flat, and gave the Wolves momentum, and it was a slow death of the championships as the second half went by.

Again, Gordon and Porter were beyond useless, and just absolutely pitiful.

[Repeat 3-peat]

The role players did not step up for Denver, it's that simple. Murray was gassed in the 2nd half, also still not healthy with his calf injury.

But this Timberwolves team is legit, and the defense can be suffocating. They have the size in the paint and on the wings, Conley even at his older age is still solid.

[R3AL1TY]

Minnesota got confident that they could gamble doubling Joker and Murray at times expecting guys like MPJ and KPC to miss. Joker and Murray needed to play way more minutes this playoff run compared to last season. Their depth wasn't as strong this season.

[kodo]

Agreed Denver needs players who can do something on-ball. It was crazy watching this after watching the Pacers, where it seems like they had 8 guys who all had no problem shooting, slashing on the dribble, making assists. TJ McConnell would have been like Denver's 3rd best player in that game.

At one point Malone had a 1 guard lineup out there near the end of the 4th and I didn't see how anything was going to get going: Joker, Murray as usual, surrounded by MPJ - Braun - Gordon. Essentially 3 PFs.

I would assume MPJ at $35M is going to be the major piece they have to move to improve the team. They're not winning another title with the AK continuity plan.

[Lexluthor]

It’s ridiculous that Jokic has won more mvps than Shaq and Kobe . Shaq and Kobe would had willed their team tonight .

Well my initial reaction was that statement of yours is a little harsh, but on second thought, you're not wrong. And it's not even Shaq and Kobe, a lot of the all time great players who had won championships would have ultimately beaten a young team like the Wolves, who lacked experience.

That said though, Jokic wasn't the problem, Gordon and Porter provided absolutely nothing in this game - they were flat out atrocious. Jokic and Murray did all that they could, but when it was just the two of them giving them anything on the offensive end, they just didn't get enough help.

He is a great player but that nuggets team from two years ago was really mediocre the mvp award should had to somebody else

[kulaz3000]

Agreed Denver needs players who can do something on-ball. It was crazy watching this after watching the Pacers, where it seems like they had 8 guys who all had no problem shooting, slashing on the dribble, making assists. TJ McConnell would have been like Denver's 3rd best player in that game.

At one point Malone had a 1 guard lineup out there near the end of the 4th and I didn't see how anything was going to get going: Joker, Murray as usual, surrounded by MPJ - Braun - Gordon. Essentially 3 PFs.

I would assume MPJ at $35M is going to be the major piece they have to move to improve the team. They're not winning another title with the AK continuity plan.

They would need at least one of their young players to take a step or two, and yeah, the player they would likely opt to move would be MPJ, but who is willing to take on his contract? It may not be a max contract, but it's pretty darn close. You'd think moving him would be as much of a challenge than to move Zach. The only advantage is that he is younger than Zach, but they are both probably 3rd wheels at best, though I think Zach in the right situation could be a second fiddle, though probably not on a championship level team.

But again, who would they be trading him to where they don't end up with a huge hole in their starting line up, despite MPJ's flaws? A sign and trade for Mile Bridges could be a desirable move, if they are willing to take on a bit of media scrutiny. Miles isn't the most consistent shooter, but neither is MPJ, but Bridges has less injury concerns, and is a lot tougher. And they could have Miles settle on a contract much less than he is probably worth due to his sunk reputation, and have the Hornets lap up some of the excess salary.

Not the most ideal of moves, but it could be a win win for both teams.

[kulaz3000]

You'd say that the Celtics have a pretty clear run to the title now with all the teams left. The remainder of the 3 teams haven't been to the WCF, let alone the Finals, I think the Celtics have the experience as well as the roster to probably put up another banner. Which sucks, because that franchise just annoys the hell out of me, but I'd be surprised if it's not them to be the last team standing.

[dumbell78]

MPJ and AG today:
11 pts on 17 shots

J McDaniels and KAT today:
46 points on 24 shots

I wont even mention the 11 Naz Reid gave Minny when KAT sat.

Ballgame.

[greenwing]

You'd say that the Celtics have a pretty clear run to the title now with all the teams left. The remainder of the 3 teams haven't been to the WCF, let alone the Finals, I think the Celtics have the experience as well as the roster to probably put up another banner. Which sucks, because that franchise just annoys the hell out of me, but I'd be surprised if it's not them to be the last team standing.

Boston was the favorite going into the playoffs. And they should be considering they had the best +/- in the league during the regular season. They are first in offensive efficiency and third in defense. This is their year should they continue to stay healthy. It’s amazing how the Lillard trade totally affected Boston and set Milwaukee back as they traded offense for defense. Holiday then became the missing piece for Boston.

Now that being said I think Minnesota, should they make the Finals, has a shot against them because they match up well on paper. Minny is such a pedestrian offensive team but their defense is better than Boston’s and they have a size advantage there. Would certainly be an interesting series.

[kulaz3000]

You'd say that the Celtics have a pretty clear run to the title now with all the teams left. The remainder of the 3 teams haven't been to the WCF, let alone the Finals, I think the Celtics have the experience as well as the roster to probably put up another banner. Which sucks, because that franchise just annoys the hell out of me, but I'd be surprised if it's not them to be the last team standing.

Boston was the favorite going into the playoffs. And they should be considering they had the best +/- in the league during the regular season. They are first in offensive efficiency and third in defense. This is their year should they continue to stay healthy. It’s amazing how the Lillard trade totally affected Boston and set Milwaukee back as they traded offense for defense. Holiday then became the missing piece for Boston.

Now that being said I think Minnesota, should they make the Finals, has a shot against them because they match up well on paper. Minny is such a pedestrian offensive team but their defense is better than Boston’s and they have a size advantage there. Would certainly be an interesting series.

That's the finals match up I'm hoping for.

[MrSparkle]

Should be fun seeing Luka vs Edwards.

I think Pacers will get swept unless Tatum and Brown end their seasons with injuries. Which judging by trends…

[dumbell78]

Should be fun seeing Luka vs Edwards.

I think Pacers will get swept unless Tatum and Brown end their seasons with injuries. Which judging by trends…

Would have liked Luka healthy but we know it is what it is. Should be fun but Minny wins in 5 or 6.

I think Indy can make it interesting. I really dont trust Boston much but they should win this in 6.

[Jeffster81]

It's great for the league to have these young teams make a mark in the league, because when young budding stars get a taste of playoff success, they tend to make a leap and the teams usually stay in the playoff mix for many years to come. Again, it just sucks that we are so far removed from being in that position, it's really disheartening.

No kidding. I want to be invested in Bulls basketball again but I can't right now. They are not only bad, but they are uninteresting with very little promise for the future.

[ChiefILL53]

Denver definitely gotta consider trading MPJ for better depth. He just did not really show up at all in this series. Gordon didnt step up in game 7 but was solid otherwise. They really coulda used Demar down the stretch to settle everything down and make some shots. I think the bigger need is another big. Jokic playing all but 1 minute of the game is insane.

[DuckIII]

When Minny’s defense is on like it was in games 1, 2 and 7 it’s one of the best defenses I’ve seen in years. They just came out in the second half and swallowed Denver.

And Reid with two absolutely enormous 4th quarters in this series.

[drosestruts]

The trust in riding Reid late in that 4th with KAT in foul trouble was quite the coaching decision and man did it pay off. When they took KAT out with the 5 fouls I was skeptical and thought - "you just gotta leave him in"

But not only did they make that substitution, they played Reid, and sat KAT far longer than I thought they would. KAT comes back when Gobert fouls out and make some huge plays himself to close the game.

I know many have mentioned Gordong and Porter's poor game-7 performance, was also surprised by KCP. He just seems like the guy who always hits the timely shot, never puts up volume but when you need a bucket it seems like he comes through, but not tonight, and he had good looks.

[drosestruts]

It funny watching Bulls fans criticize Presti. I realize it’s fair and reasonable to debate and criticize any individual moves or decisions by any GM, it’s what we do here. But its just funny seeing a debate about how quickly Presti needs to cash in his embarrassment of draft asset riches to firm up the roster around his elite and well balanced incredibly young championship core that he largely built patiently through the draft.

While we fear AK is going to trade one of the very few (less than all) draft picks he has in order to convince an ancient DDR to steer our ship to the 20th best record in the NBA for two more years at which point we will have to pay Coby and Ayo, our two best youngsters who are still just role players.

I think that there are a couple contributing factors to the 'over criticism ' of Presti.

1) For many here and elsewhere success is measured in titles, and along with that being good but not great is often considered a negative.

2) Presti here and elsewhere has often been elevated to near legendary status, but he hasn't won despite many chances. Lots of good moves, some big mistakes.

Granted, compared to AMKE, Presti and most GMs are awesome. As Doug pointed out before, an empty chair would have been better than AMKE.

I really think this contributes to it. It's similar to Morey and Philly for me. Both guys are so praised - yet neither has won a title or built a consistent competitor.

Even this year after OKC's loss it's nothing but "SGA and Chet are so young, this is the beginning of a dynasty"

They lost to Dallas in 7 games - a Dallas team by the way featuring Luka (younger than SGA) and their own rookie center Liverly (younger than Chet) - and Luka and Lively outplayed SGA and Chet in game 7.

Many here often criticize the Bulls with comments about being in "basketball hell" and our absolute ceiling being a 2nd round exit - history would suggest that that is also Philly's ceiling because in his 10-year career Embiid has never made it past the 2nd round. But they have a model front office and ours should be fired into the sun.

It's the "grass is greener on the other side" that irks me. If we had a front office that made the following moves you'd all be calling for them to be fired:

1. Traded up to draft Fultz over Ball or Tatum
2. Drafting Okafor when you already have Embiid and Nerlens Noel on your roster (Devin Booker was picked 10 picks later)
3. Trading Mikal Bridges for Zhaire Smith and a future 1st (future 1st would be used to trade for Tobias Harris)
4. Which brings us to "Tobias Harris over me" - trading for then maxing Harris has been a huge miss
5. Trading away Jimmy Butler
6. Using the saving from trading Butler to sign Al Horfordm such like with Okafor to a team that already has Embiid.

I think several of these moves are worse than AK/ME's worst move(s) - the worst of which is of course being the Vucevic trade.

I would actually be curious to see where people rank these bad 76ers moves in a list with bad Bulls moves

1. The Vuc trade
2. The Vuc extension
3. Drafting Williams over someone like Haliburton
4. Maxing LaVine
5. ???

[MrSparkle]

I do think AK’s luck has been almost as bad as it gets… but the NBA/lottery/injuries are not fair and just… and you have to read and react appropriately. I criticized GarPax primarily for fumbling the post-ACL era, and AK had a tough blow with Lonzo’s injury, giving up #7/Franz and Zach/Caruso/Patrick/Coby injuries… but he also had room to pivot, and he didn’t, and that’s the biggest problem 3y into this.

It’s like he wants to cap his team’s ceiling at mediocrity by holding hope for Vuc to start making his spot-up shots, but in the big picture, he sucks so hard that even if he shot better, any time you play Vuc for 35+ mpg, you’re looking at 8-12 seed in a weak conference.

The league’s moved so far past Vuc it’s not even funny anymore. Backup Cs and PFs are feasting on him. His biggest games were playing a hobbled Looney, Toronto before they got a C (and were playing some 175 lb. PFs at the 5), and Charlotte before that Mark Williams fella was drafted (or out, injured).

So yes. A bad FO tries to win games with a hopeless roster. And we’re not talking conference final hopeless; we mean 1st round hopeless. While giving up multiple lotto picks. Like, essentially playing to deliver these Magic/Spurs picks right at the most juicy fringe of their protections. AK is acting like a clown the last 1.5 years, and I expect the same this summer. I’m not a betting man, but if there’s a way to make some money betting that we retain Vuc/Demar and end up giving Spurs the #11-13 pick in next year’s draft, then sign me up.

[MrSparkle]

All things considered, Nuggets are a young team and Minny had the Jokic antidote. Multiple big men to throw at him.

Denver’s gonna have to shuffle some salary and get a more potent backup guard. They can’t be entirely dependent on Murray. It’s tricky cause MPJ sometimes lights it up, but he’s probably the first guy they should consider chopping for parts and salary flexibility (not to save money, but to replace him with depth).

Bones Hyland would have been a big help for him. They need a scoring punch. No one can get their own shot.

DDR would be such a good player for them.

I dunno. I don't think they can afford any more defensive liabilities with Jokic, Murray, MPJ out there.

[Dan Z]

It funny watching Bulls fans criticize Presti. I realize it’s fair and reasonable to debate and criticize any individual moves or decisions by any GM, it’s what we do here. But its just funny seeing a debate about how quickly Presti needs to cash in his embarrassment of draft asset riches to firm up the roster around his elite and well balanced incredibly young championship core that he largely built patiently through the draft.

While we fear AK is going to trade one of the very few (less than all) draft picks he has in order to convince an ancient DDR to steer our ship to the 20th best record in the NBA for two more years at which point we will have to pay Coby and Ayo, our two best youngsters who are still just role players.

I think that there are a couple contributing factors to the 'over criticism ' of Presti.

1) For many here and elsewhere success is measured in titles, and along with that being good but not great is often considered a negative.

2) Presti here and elsewhere has often been elevated to near legendary status, but he hasn't won despite many chances. Lots of good moves, some big mistakes.

Granted, compared to AMKE, Presti and most GMs are awesome. As Doug pointed out before, an empty chair would have been better than AMKE.

I really think this contributes to it. It's similar to Morey and Philly for me. Both guys are so praised - yet neither has won a title or built a consistent competitor.

Even this year after OKC's loss it's nothing but "SGA and Chet are so young, this is the beginning of a dynasty"

They lost to Dallas in 7 games - a Dallas team by the way featuring Luka (younger than SGA) and their own rookie center Liverly (younger than Chet) - and Luka and Lively outplayed SGA and Chet in game 7.

Many here often criticize the Bulls with comments about being in "basketball hell" and our absolute ceiling being a 2nd round exit - history would suggest that that is also Philly's ceiling because in his 10-year career Embiid has never made it past the 2nd round. But they have a model front office and ours should be fired into the sun.

It's the "grass is greener on the other side" that irks me. If we had a front office that made the following moves you'd all be calling for them to be fired:

1. Traded up to draft Fultz over Ball or Tatum
2. Drafting Okafor when you already have Embiid and Nerlens Noel on your roster (Devin Booker was picked 10 picks later)
3. Trading Mikal Bridges for Zhaire Smith and a future 1st (future 1st would be used to trade for Tobias Harris)
4. Which brings us to "Tobias Harris over me" - trading for then maxing Harris has been a huge miss
5. Trading away Jimmy Butler
6. Using the saving from trading Butler to sign Al Horfordm such like with Okafor to a team that already has Embiid.

I think several of these moves are worse than AK/ME's worst move(s) - the worst of which is of course being the Vucevic trade.

I would actually be curious to see where people rank these bad 76ers moves in a list with bad Bulls moves

1. The Vuc trade
2. The Vuc extension
3. Drafting Williams over someone like Haliburton
4. Maxing LaVine
5. ???

Philly currently has a 23 year old all-star (Maxey), an MVP level player (Embiid) and cap space.

The moves you're talking about above weren't made by Morey. You're talking about the "process" when Hinkie was there and then when Colangelo/Brand took over and made a series of bad moves.