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Dominater wrote:This is exactly what differentiates the Sox GMs from the Bulls GMs. For years now, every time there was a fairly big name on the trade block, the Sox are always in the conversation trying to land these guys. Sometimes they do good, sometimes not so much. But you have to give them credit for always going down swinging instead of just standing on their heals.

Yes and no. It's also a very different sport and vastly when it comes to trade rules. I hate Pax and his "vision", but MLB trades a lot easier to pull off. Especially when the club wanting to move out a player pays part of the money owed. The Bulls are always afraid to pay the luxury tax, which, in the NBA is asinine. The MLB luxury tax is much more stomachable and with the Shields move, it's a drop in the bucket for a baseball team. Especially one that's going to probably add more payroll by July 31 (Aug 1 with waivers). Also, I'm not the biggest Kenny Williams guy, but when he wants to make a move, he's rabid. Unfortunately, often it's been a guy he's wanted for 5+ years and now there's a reason they're available. But this one (in addition to most of their winter moves), I like.

ADDinChicago wrote:

Dominater wrote:Especially one that's going to probably add more payroll by July 31 (Aug 1 with waivers).

They only add payroll if the sox get hot between now and the deadline. it is possibly with kc going with injuries, and nobody else pulling away, but I would not guarantee the white sox adding payroll right now.

Shields to the white sox like Ben Wallace to the Bulls, long on name, short on impact. Hope he works for the sox but he was getting pummeled in San Diego, especially at pet, I shudder at aholes being in the al again.

ADDinChicago wrote:

nitetrain8603 wrote:Shields isn't enough unfortunately and he's owed a ton

I'll agree it's not enough ATM (and before any one says "you're a Cub fan", stop it. I do not hate the Sox and am a baseball fan). But it's a good move. Erik Johnson was never going to be a rotational piece and he's proven it multiple times. Fernando Tatis, Jr. might be something, but he's also a primary SS and he'd be stuck behind Tim Anderson. And the Padres are paying half the salary owed to Shields. It's a great move by the White Sox in addition to adding Frazier & Lawrie (among others). The team desperately needs/needed an overhaul and this is just another move in a long line of many that Rick Hahn (when actually allowed to do his job when Kenny Williams butts out) has had to make. He inherited a mess.

And in addition, this Sox team is good. They showed that the first 6 weeks of the season. They play in a winnable division (and a wild card too wouldn't be out of the question if they don't win the division). They need some tweaks and next season probably a new manager. But they are so much closer to doing something than the last couple of years. It takes time.

In turn, I think it's a nice move for Shields. He never wanted to go to San Diego, but they threw a big bag of money at him. And that team has no idea what they're doing. They spent a ton of money and already are "rebuilding". It could be a lot worse.

Well I will say San Diego does have some decent pieces. They simply didn't fit. Shields is the type of pitcher you get to add to what you have, not necessarily to be one of your main pieces. When he's on, he's a good pitcher, but that's pretty much it.

As far as Kenny, he has butted out for awhile now and has actually tried to leave the organization twice, but Jerry will not let him. Why? I have no idea to be honest.

Lastly, they do need a couple more pieces. Most notably a LH power bat and another reliever (maybe Gonzalez could help here). I'd also prefer another starter because I see Latos going down in flames like he did last year when he started for the Dodgers. Overall, it's not a bad move. They get 29 mil paid for Shields while they only pay 27 themselves and they get a solid starter.

that Tatis kid must have been good to get the Padres to pay all that Shields salary

fleet wrote:that Tatis kid must have been good to get the Padres to pay all that Shields salary

He has the potential to be good, but the Sox already have Tim Anderson who's a better prospect and in all honesty, he's probably their best position prospect since Jeremy Reed was a prospect.

nitetrain8603 wrote:

fleet wrote:that Tatis kid must have been good to get the Padres to pay all that Shields salary

He has the potential to be good, but the Sox already have Tim Anderson who's a better prospect and in all honesty, he's probably their best position prospect since Jeremy Reed was a prospect.

I think Tatis is projected to play 3rd or right field. I think asset is how you think of this instead of position. More of the same for the Sox, selling youth, and/or not investing in the minors prospects for emphasizing old guys on the MLB level that will be average at best or worse over their Sox career in a desperate thirsty attempt to win in the current season. Hate the way they run that team.

fleet wrote:

nitetrain8603 wrote:

fleet wrote:that Tatis kid must have been good to get the Padres to pay all that Shields salary

He has the potential to be good, but the Sox already have Tim Anderson who's a better prospect and in all honesty, he's probably their best position prospect since Jeremy Reed was a prospect.

I think Tatis is projected to play 3rd or right field. I think asset is how you think of this instead of position. More of the same for the Sox, selling youth, and/or not investing in the minors prospects for emphasizing old guys on the MLB level that will be average at best or worse over their Sox career in a desperate thirsty attempt to win in the current season. Hate the way they run that team.

Honestly, with Tatis Jr., I don't feel that way. I felt that way with Trayce Thompson though. I didn't like giving him up for Frazier at all since it was known Cincy wanted to get rid of Frazier and they didn't really have any trade partners at all.

Shields is a really good signing. Sale, Quintana and Shields is a very good 1-2-3. The offense needs help though.

Typical direction-less Reinsdorf owned team. Not rebuilding but not legitimate WS contenders. Adding James Shields is SO typical.

Another declining vet (a la Rip Hamilton) who won't move the needle.

Ventura should have been fired a long time ago - another hallmark trait of a Jerry-owned team.

fleet wrote:that Tatis kid must have been good to get the Padres to pay all that Shields salary

Very highly regarded prospect..but He's only 17. Likely won't make an impact for many years (if at all). Also the Padres are a DISASTER this year and are hitting the reset button all over again..Shields had to go.

Ventura with another terrible lineup order today.

I'm trying to understand why Saladino is batting 9th while guys like Shuck, Sands and Rollins who all blow continue to hit before him all the way up to 5.

The other day he had Abreu batting SECOND!

On top of that he continues to miss manage the bullpen. He should be fired by now, but loyalty is keeping him around.

I loved Ventura as a player, but he's just been a disaster as a manager.

SpinninHouse wrote:Typical direction-less Reinsdorf owned team. Not rebuilding but not legitimate WS contenders. Adding James Shields is SO typical.

Another declining vet (a la Rip Hamilton) who won't move the needle.

Ventura should have been fired a long time ago - another hallmark trait of a Jerry-owned team.

those directionless reinsdorf teams have won more championships than most other franchises

RedBulls83 wrote:Ventura with another terrible lineup order today.

I'm trying to understand why Saladino is batting 9th while guys like Shuck, Sands and Rollins who all blow continue to hit before him all the way up to 5.

The other day he had Abreu batting SECOND!

On top of that he continues to miss manage the bullpen. He should be fired by now, but loyalty is keeping him around.

I loved Ventura as a player, but he's just been a disaster as a manager.

I agree on Ventura. I think he was a nice choice after Ozzie showing the team was still loyal to its players, but also he was radically more calming than Ozzie's in your face attitude. With that stated, he should've been let go a few years ago already.

As far as Abreu batting 2nd, it seems like a lot of teams have adopted (I think this comes from Maddon) strategy that your best hitters should hit 1st or 2nd to get the most at bats out of them throughout the year. This is because after starting the game, it's just a round robin in terms of hitting so it doesn't really matter.

I do agree with the batting order as a whole though. You shouldn't have Saladino when he's hot at the bottom, but have guys like Shuck(who is a nice utility player and thats it), Sands, or Rollins(who looked done with the Dodgers)

nrockwaychicago wrote:

SpinninHouse wrote:Typical direction-less Reinsdorf owned team. Not rebuilding but not legitimate WS contenders. Adding James Shields is SO typical.

Another declining vet (a la Rip Hamilton) who won't move the needle.

Ventura should have been fired a long time ago - another hallmark trait of a Jerry-owned team.

those directionless reinsdorf teams have won more championships than most other franchises

The White Sox have missed the playoffs 30 times in the 35 years Jerry has owned them. Statistically speaking, their success rate ranks in the bottom 20% of all MLB teams.

If Jerry didn't inherit MJ from Rod Thorn, he'd have 1 single championship over the course of 65+ seasons.

Jeffster81 wrote:

ADDinChicago wrote:

Dominater wrote:Especially one that's going to probably add more payroll by July 31 (Aug 1 with waivers).

They only add payroll if the sox get hot between now and the deadline. it is possibly with kc going with injuries, and nobody else pulling away, but I would not guarantee the white sox adding payroll right now.

Shields to the white sox like Ben Wallace to the Bulls, long on name, short on impact. Hope he works for the sox but he was getting pummeled in San Diego, especially at pet, I shudder at aholes being in the al again.

I'm sensing you don't know what actually went down in either case. This is the 2nd ridiculous Ben Wallace reference made on the subject. And other than being Reinsdorf teams, they're not comparable moves.

And Hahn even said this wasn't all he was working on. I'm sure they're going to find away to upgrade at SS.

fleet wrote:that Tatis kid must have been good to get the Padres to pay all that Shields salary

A lot also had to do with San Diego's ownership group already hitting the panic button. The winter of 2015, they spent a ton of money on high priced free agents and made quite a few trades, only to still be bad. A.J. Preller (Padres' GM) is working for one of the most hands on owners in sports, who lately, has been pretty short fused on things. He called out the team, and Shields by name, last week. So you kinda had a feeling something was coming. Ron Fowler, also basically said nothing of beyond when Preller's deal expires in 2018. It's a mess down there. No matter what they've done, they can't get out of the basement. They have a beautiful park, but it's not being filled. It's almost like the Marlins, except they're a very bad team. With Shields, they were willing to eat money if it meant he was gone. It was never a good signing for them, but they were, as usual, under pressure to add names.

But yes, Tatis is becoming a more touted prospect, and probably the best one the White Sox made available (Tim Anderson & Carson Fullmer, etc. are virtually untouchable unless it was a megastar coming back in a deal), but as said before, he is primarily a SS and the Sox have that locked up when they eventually decide to call up Tim Anderson. But you can't get a straight answer on that time table. And they have said no matter how bad Jimmy Rollins & Tyler Saladino get, that won't speed up Anderson's time table to get to the big (which is not new for the Sox or most teams, they've said the same about Fullmer).

What a difference 1 month makes. This team is so depressing to watch now.

I really think Jerry's big going away party is a big FU to Sox and Bulls fans.

Mbrahv0528 wrote:

fleet wrote:that Tatis kid must have been good to get the Padres to pay all that Shields salary

Very highly regarded prospect..but He's only 17. Likely won't make an impact for many years (if at all). Also the Padres are a DISASTER this year and are hitting the reset button all over again..Shields had to go.

This has been the sox problem my entire life. It sucks but my god sometimes you have to wait for things in life. They have always tried to fill leaking holes will bubblegum and the dam bursts every single year. I was just thinking in my car today at work, in my entire lifetime of white sox baseball I cannot remember 1 single exciting homegrown position player prospect to come up through our system and become a bonafide superstar in the league. I'm 26 so I guess this would apply post-Frank Thomas.

IcemanGervin wrote:

Mbrahv0528 wrote:

fleet wrote:that Tatis kid must have been good to get the Padres to pay all that Shields salary

Very highly regarded prospect..but He's only 17. Likely won't make an impact for many years (if at all). Also the Padres are a DISASTER this year and are hitting the reset button all over again..Shields had to go.

This has been the sox problem my entire life. It sucks but my god sometimes you have to wait for things in life. They have always tried to fill leaking holes will bubblegum and the dam bursts every single year. I was just thinking in my car today at work, in my entire lifetime of white sox baseball I cannot remember 1 single exciting homegrown position player prospect to come up through our system and become a bonafide superstar in the league. I'm 26 so I guess this would apply post-Frank Thomas.

Magglio Ordonez is pretty much it post Big Hurt. The Org needs a complete tear down from the top to bottom. I went from complete excitement for this season in April to complete disinterest in the span of 3 **** weeks. 6-20 in our last 26 games. Good grief .