Losing will be a blessing in disguise

[DASMACKDOWN]

I was against a full rebuild but given the climate of the league right now, it's just the best move.

Basically, when we look at it, when this team got together, the era of "Super" teams was tore down. KD left Golden St so all of a sudden everyone felt they had a chance again.

Now basically 5 years later, teams have reverted back to the super team recipe. Teams are now pairing superstars together with 1 maybe 2 other current allstars. The top teams are stacked.

The reason why we are in a bad spot because our top guys are old. We spend a bunch of draft capital to get them. So we are somewhere in the middle. We arent in developmental mode nor are we in title contention mode. Win now means you are doing neither.

I look at OKC where they completely tore their team to the stomps. In 3 years they already look in better position than we currently are with a huge load of potential in their future. Any GM would take SGA, Giddey and Chet future over our core. I didn't even mention the million draft picks they still have coming.

So at this point, while I hate a rebuild, I'm all about winning titles. And that is the best way to have us sustained success. It may take 3-5 years to see its fruits but if we see we have good fruit, the fans will wait.

[League Circles]

Losing sucks. The Bulls may win the East.

[Wingy]

The time to lose was last year's trade deadline. We were tied for 6th worst record in the league. A sell off and we would have been in the Wemby sweepstakes.

Portland tanked and were able to get scoot as a consolation prize. Bulls decided to make a foolish end of season push and it ended up with nothing to show for after the playin loss to Miami. Just not smart asset management.

They should’ve been fired on the spot after that trade deadline and failing to go after those talents. The playin instead. How pathetic the Bulls are from the very top.

[Wingy]

I have low expectations for the team... But it can still swing both ways. As I've said a number of times, the Lonzo injury kind of closed the window on this squad. You just can't recover from something like that. Like Hayward/Celtics, Hill/Magic, Rose/Bulls... You tread water and wait until that contract is complete or movable. Intentionally tanking would've been a brash decision, and it hasn't helped that it took over a year to just figure out he needed another surgery, another year. It's been an ambiguous tough decision, and it put the Bulls' 3rd best player and a significant salary in limbo.

Generally good assessment overall, but I disagree with the last point. Like during an actual game, you read what’s going on and try to make the right play.

If they were awake and actually read the obvious circumstances last season, intentional tanking was the clear cut move near the deadline with Wemby and Scoot on the board. With ‘too many buyers’ and the most competitive, wide open league we’ve seen…maybe ever? The time was ripe to recoup assets even if a tank failed to land the star.

I do think you’re right that you can’t recover, but treading water is foolish. Move on. Don’t get stuck in shocked paralysis like AKME.

[Chi town]

The time to lose was last year's trade deadline. We were tied for 6th worst record in the league. A sell off and we would have been in the Wemby sweepstakes.

Portland tanked and were able to get scoot as a consolation prize. Bulls decided to make a foolish end of season push and it ended up with nothing to show for after the playin loss to Miami. Just not smart asset management.

They should’ve been fired on the spot after that trade deadline and failing to go after those talents. The playin instead. How pathetic the Bulls are from the very top.

That’s what all of us were pining for but our pick was only top 4 protected. No way AK was tanking to give up a top pick outside the top 4.

[Wingy]

The time to lose was last year's trade deadline. We were tied for 6th worst record in the league. A sell off and we would have been in the Wemby sweepstakes.

Portland tanked and were able to get scoot as a consolation prize. Bulls decided to make a foolish end of season push and it ended up with nothing to show for after the playin loss to Miami. Just not smart asset management.

They should’ve been fired on the spot after that trade deadline and failing to go after those talents. The playin instead. How pathetic the Bulls are from the very top.

That’s what all of us were pining for but our pick was only top 4 protected. No way AK was tanking to give up a top pick outside the top 4.

Yet another fireable offense if they made decisions based on optics over what’s best for the team.

[bad knees]

Losing sucks. The Bulls may win the East.

More to the point, tanking sucks. I have no interest in it. Contrary to a lot of folks around here, I think the top of the Eastern Conference is worse this season. Boston and Milwaukee made trades that made them worse. Celtics have no front court (Porzingas is not the answer), and the Bucks have no one to play defense at the guard position. Philly is worse because of the Harden situation. Miami is worse because they had to shed assets. CLE and NYK will be tough. But the Bulls are better too.

[FriedRise]

Look, it’s frustrating too from the point of view of someone who doesn’t wanna tank (like me).

We know that AK wants to compete, but you also see teams that are trying to contend make moves. Milwaukee won a title recently and said to hell with that, we’re gonna go get Dame. Boston went to the Finals recently and went out to get Porzingis and Jrue. The Suns already have Booker and KD and they’re like, we could use another 30ppg scorer. The Warriors have Steph at point and said yeah we could use CP3.

Yes, these are just examples; the games will need to be played before we can see of these moves were good or bad.

Meanwhile we’re stuck with the same guys we’ve always had with super minimal moves. For three straight years. We even went waiver diving at the last trade deadline when 29 other teams made moves. Just so afraid to shake up this play-in bound roster.

Last year, the mantra was continuity. This year it’s evolved to building relationships. Same ****, different taglines. Just keep running it back and expecting different results.

[WindyCityBorn]

I honestly don’t care about winning a title in basketball. I just want a really good team. 49ers are contenders in the NFL. Georgia back to back champions in college football. Braves are back in baseball. Bulls just need to entertain during the Winter and Spring. It’s fine if most of you disagree. I am still 100 percent against a rebuild at least going into this season.

[dougthonus]

EC is insane right now. 4 of the top 5 net rating teams in the league were all EC last year (DEN #1 in the WC was only #6 overall) and the East just got a lot tougher. Bulls got to 40 wins by playing 50/50 against teams like Milwaukee & Boston, I don't see that happening anymore. Some of the bottom teams will be better as well, like Indiana.

Bulls need to bail on playoffs and rebuild.

Maybe another thought around that though is this:
Nets: Most of their good play was prior to Durant leaving
Philly: Looks like they're obviously in for a major downslide compared to last year
Miami: Lost several key players, replaced with nothing

Boston: Better
Milwaukee: Better (but less depth and more injury risk)
Cleveland: Same
Knicks: Same


I'd say after Boston/Milwaukee that it's a giant crap shoot in the East this year.

I'd still go full rebuild because we just aren't going anywhere, have no room to improve, and have depreciating assets, but I don't think the strength of the conference is a particularly impactful reason as to why.

[drosestruts]

I really don't think these trades change my outlook on the season all that much. I already had Boston and Milwaukee as better than us - now they're still better than us.

I think there's 3 tiers in the East:

Tier 1 - Milwaukee and Boston, far and away the best teams on paper.

Tier 2 - the cluttered middle, consists of teams from 3-seed to the 11th seed

Philly - could be in tier 1 if there wasn't so much drama and uncertainty around them
Cavs, Kicks, Nets, Heat, Hawks, Raptors, Bulls, Pacers - are all bunched together to me. Any of these teams could win 50 games or 40 games and I wouldn't be overly surprised.

Tier 3 - the bottoms 4

Magic, Pistons, Hornets, Wizards - either too young, or too poorly assembled. Sure there's talent on all these teams, but I don't see any going anywhere anytime soon.


I just don't really believe in the blow it up strategy - I'd rather keep building what we have and hoping for a younger guy to make a jump.

Worst case scenario in my mind would be we trade Zach or DeMar for a less than good package, and then all of a sudden Coby and Patrick make the jump and we're like "Damn, wish we didn't trade Zach or DeMar for scraps"

Team-building isn't just about getting a star (which I'd argue we have 3 of in Zach, DeMar, and Caruso) - you need to build a team around that star and that can be just as difficult (ex. Portland and Dame, OKC and SGA, Nets and Durant, Mavs and Luka)

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

My interest in this team has hit rock bottom. I saw an ad re: 20 game plans and laughed to myself. I dont even want to go to a single game -- I dont care. They're not good. They also dont have young players to root for. They're not bad enough + no picks or young players, and not good enough to make the playoffs.

It's a garbage product and have no interest

[JimmyButler21]

Vegas has the Bulls 10th in the East, +175 to win 40+ games, and +172 to make the playoffs

[Stratmaster]

Awwww geesh. This already? We can't give them the benefit of the doubt that the additions make them incrementally better for...I don't know...the first 5 games of the season or something before we start talking about tanking?

[jnrjr79]

EC is insane right now. 4 of the top 5 net rating teams in the league were all EC last year (DEN #1 in the WC was only #6 overall) and the East just got a lot tougher. Bulls got to 40 wins by playing 50/50 against teams like Milwaukee & Boston, I don't see that happening anymore. Some of the bottom teams will be better as well, like Indiana.

Bulls need to bail on playoffs and rebuild.

Maybe another thought around that though is this:
Nets: Most of their good play was prior to Durant leaving
Philly: Looks like they're obviously in for a major downslide compared to last year
Miami: Lost several key players, replaced with nothing

Boston: Better
Milwaukee: Better (but less depth and more injury risk)
Cleveland: Same
Knicks: Same


I'd say after Boston/Milwaukee that it's a giant crap shoot in the East this year.

I'd still go full rebuild because we just aren't going anywhere, have no room to improve, and have depreciating assets, but I don't think the strength of the conference is a particularly impactful reason as to why.

Same.

Rebuilding would be the best course, but I'm sure as heck not spending a lot of mental energy on it, because the team has been quite clear about its intentions. The only chance of any sort of rebuild is if the Bulls are completely terrible during the first half of the season and they elect to trade some guys. But if they're competitive, they'll be keeping the roster together or looking to buy (not necessarily succeeding at buying, though!).

The East is wide open after the first 2 teams or so. You could tell me the Bulls would be the 3 seed or the Bulls would be 11 and neither outcome would be massively surprising.

[madvillian]

I disagree vehemently with OP. Losing won't be a blessing of anything. A "blessing in disguise" would be like a DDR injury forcing our younger players to take on more usage and thrive. Losing? Losing is not going to accelerate anything except the misery index for the fans.

[Dan Z]

Look, it’s frustrating too from the point of view of someone who doesn’t wanna tank (like me).

We know that AK wants to compete, but you also see teams that are trying to contend make moves. Milwaukee won a title recently and said to hell with that, we’re gonna go get Dame. Boston went to the Finals recently and went out to get Porzingis and Jrue. The Suns already have Booker and KD and they’re like, we could use another 30ppg scorer. The Warriors have Steph at point and said yeah we could use CP3.

Yes, these are just examples; the games will need to be played before we can see of these moves were good or bad.

Meanwhile we’re stuck with the same guys we’ve always had with super minimal moves. For three straight years. We even went waiver diving at the last trade deadline when 29 other teams made moves. Just so afraid to shake up this play-in bound roster.

Last year, the mantra was continuity. This year it’s evolved to building relationships. Same ****, different taglines. Just keep running it back and expecting different results.

The top teams in the NBA all found their franchise player through the draft (with rare exception).

Philly with Embiid, Boston with Tatum/Brown, Milwaukee with GIannis, Denver with Jokic, etc.

Once they found said player then they built around them. The Bulls could go in that direction, but they don't want to. Instead they're going with a core that has limited upside and limited assets to make moves. I wouldn't be surprised if they re-signed DDR during the season and went with this core for a few more years.

I also can imagine being a first round exit again.

[MrSparkle]

Look, it’s frustrating too from the point of view of someone who doesn’t wanna tank (like me).

We know that AK wants to compete, but you also see teams that are trying to contend make moves. Milwaukee won a title recently and said to hell with that, we’re gonna go get Dame. Boston went to the Finals recently and went out to get Porzingis and Jrue. The Suns already have Booker and KD and they’re like, we could use another 30ppg scorer. The Warriors have Steph at point and said yeah we could use CP3.

Yes, these are just examples; the games will need to be played before we can see of these moves were good or bad.

Meanwhile we’re stuck with the same guys we’ve always had with super minimal moves. For three straight years. We even went waiver diving at the last trade deadline when 29 other teams made moves. Just so afraid to shake up this play-in bound roster.

Last year, the mantra was continuity. This year it’s evolved to building relationships. Same ****, different taglines. Just keep running it back and expecting different results.

The top teams in the NBA all found their franchise player through the draft (with rare exception).

Philly with Embiid, Boston with Tatum/Brown, Milwaukee with GIannis, Denver with Jokic, etc.

Once they found said player then they built around them. The Bulls could go in that direction, but they don't want to. Instead they're going with a core that has limited upside and limited assets to make moves. I wouldn't be surprised if they re-signed DDR during the season and went with this core for a few more years.

I also can imagine being a first round exit again.

OK... You're not going to use Jokic as an example of "using the draft" to find said player. They used a late 2nd round pick. I would like the Bulls to add more 2nd picks, but as the Phillips draft showed... if they like a player in the 2nd round, it's quite easy and manageable buying a SRP on draft night.

Bulls are still basically building around a #4 pick that they invested a lot of resources into. He's just been playing with his head in the clouds, and it seems like maybe it was not a good idea building/planning around him. They seem high on Ayo and Coby too -- I can't lie; I am too with how cheap they're resigned. If they play like their better selves for more than half the season, these are great value guards with room to grow. They've officially taken all pressure off with the Craig and Jevon signings. It's on them to perform, to earn their minutes.

[SfBull]

I honestly don’t care about winning a title in basketball. I just want a really good team. 49ers are contenders in the NFL. Georgia back to back champions in college football. Braves are back in baseball. Bulls just need to entertain during the Winter and Spring. It’s fine if most of you disagree. I am still 100 percent against a rebuild at least going into this season.

Not sure if a full rebuild will really improve the Bulls but if you believe this roster can be a good team in the future you'll likely be frustrated.And being a niner fan you certainly followed how fast Shanahan and Lynch traded Lance for improvement.

[FriedRise]

Look, it’s frustrating too from the point of view of someone who doesn’t wanna tank (like me).

We know that AK wants to compete, but you also see teams that are trying to contend make moves. Milwaukee won a title recently and said to hell with that, we’re gonna go get Dame. Boston went to the Finals recently and went out to get Porzingis and Jrue. The Suns already have Booker and KD and they’re like, we could use another 30ppg scorer. The Warriors have Steph at point and said yeah we could use CP3.

Yes, these are just examples; the games will need to be played before we can see of these moves were good or bad.

Meanwhile we’re stuck with the same guys we’ve always had with super minimal moves. For three straight years. We even went waiver diving at the last trade deadline when 29 other teams made moves. Just so afraid to shake up this play-in bound roster.

Last year, the mantra was continuity. This year it’s evolved to building relationships. Same ****, different taglines. Just keep running it back and expecting different results.

The top teams in the NBA all found their franchise player through the draft (with rare exception).

Philly with Embiid, Boston with Tatum/Brown, Milwaukee with GIannis, Denver with Jokic, etc.

Once they found said player then they built around them. The Bulls could go in that direction, but they don't want to. Instead they're going with a core that has limited upside and limited assets to make moves. I wouldn't be surprised if they re-signed DDR during the season and went with this core for a few more years.

I also can imagine being a first round exit again.

OK... You're not going to use Jokic as an example of "using the draft" to find said player. They used a late 2nd round pick. I would like the Bulls to add more 2nd picks, but as the Phillips draft showed... if they like a player in the 2nd round, it's quite easy and manageable buying a SRP on draft night.

Bulls are still basically building around a #4 pick that they invested a lot of resources into. He's just been playing with his head in the clouds, and it seems like maybe it was not a good idea building/planning around him. They seem high on Ayo and Coby too -- I can't lie; I am too with how cheap they're resigned. If they play like their better selves for more than half the season, these are great value guards with room to grow. They've officially taken all pressure off with the Craig and Jevon signings. It's on them to perform, to earn their minutes.

I just hate how big of a factor luck plays in finding that franchise player. Philly got one Embiid for all the Fultz, Simmons, and Okafor picks. And yes, nobody predicted Giannis (15th pick) or Jokic (41st pick) to turn into anybody substantial. You'd likely end up with a Chandler Hutchison or Marko Simonovic than hitting on somebody like that.

And this was when tanking was still easy and guaranteed. Now you can be bad for YEARS and pick outside the top 3 every time because of the lottery odds.