Bears 2024 2.0

[fleet]

I feel the exact same way!

Watch on YouTube

A taller Kyler Murray seems fair. Comparing someone to a literal HOF'er is such a disservice to both Mahomes and Williams.
We don't comp prospects to Tom Brady or Payton Manning.

I guess it depends on your definition of "comparison". Saying that they're the exact same player is lazy and ridiculous. Saying that Williams can change arm angles and play off-script like Mahomes is fair.

Basically I think it's fine to compare traits, but comparing expected careers is pretty silly.

Lawrence and Dan get very angry any time some other quarterback linked to the Bears gets hype. There are more differences in the type comparison to Kyler Murray than there are with the Patrick Mahomes one. Those 2 like the Murray one because it diminishes Caleb. On one hand they advise to not compare. And yet then they do.

It’s going to be a little difficult though if guys that literally coached Caleb like Kliff Kingsbury are in on the Mahomes comparison. Naturally we reach for comparisons, but in this case there aren’t better ones out there as a type than Mahomes. I guess you could go Kyler, but that seems at least as incomplete as the Mahomes comparison. The safest bet is that Caleb Williams will have a different career than both

[_txchilibowl_]

Drake Maye is the best player in this draft.

Oof

Sorry you don't see it yet. Give it some time.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

Drake Maye is the best player in this draft.

Oof

Sorry you don't see it yet. Give it some time.

Oh I see, you don't have a shot at Williams. Well then, my wife is the most beautiful woman in the world.

[Peelboy]

Draft Caleb (No independent knowledge, but basically every scout/FO type I read from says the same - he's far and away the best QB prospect in a while. "Generational" is hard to use in general, but better than any of the QBs in the past few years and I've seen things saying as a prospect on the level of Manning/Luck when they came out and better than Burrow.

In my dream world, Daniels underwhelms and you can package 9+Fields to move up to 3, I'd even throw in say the Bears #2 next year. Pair Harrison w Caleb. Otherwise, deal Justin to Atlanta for a 2+3 and draft one of Nabers/Odunze/Bowers.

With the Atl 2, and 2 3d round picks, I focus on OT, C, DE. Depth at CB, S, LB in later rounds.

FA I also grab a C. Resign Jaylon. Sign a S or rework EJax's deal. Cut Patrick/Whitehair. If you can do it at a decent price, resign Mooney

DJ-Odunze/Bowers-Mooney-Scott-Kmet, Roschon/Herbert at RB, Caleb at QB.
OL of say Braxton-Teven-Rookie/FA-Davis/Rookie-Wright.

DL of Sweat-Dexter-Billings-Walker with Jones/Pickens/rookie in rotation.
LB's stay Edwards-Edmunds-Sanborn
DBs of Jaylon-Tyrique-Kyler-Brisker-EJax/FA

All doable and should be a playoff team with a solid OC which it seems like they have.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Oof

Sorry you don't see it yet. Give it some time.

Oh I see, you don't have a shot at Williams. Well then, my wife is the most beautiful woman in the world.

Trying to get the hype train rolling on Maye so the Bears let Caleb fall to them(Washington).

But really though if anyone thinks they really know who the best player in the draft is it says a lot about what kind of person they are. They’re a genius!

[poolshark52]

I went with other. I think they should try to bring Cutler back out of retirement. He's not that old.

[_txchilibowl_]

Sorry you don't see it yet. Give it some time.

Oh I see, you don't have a shot at Williams. Well then, my wife is the most beautiful woman in the world.

Trying to get the hype train rolling on Maye so the Bears let Caleb fall to them(Washington).

But really though if anyone thinks they really know who the best player in the draft is it says a lot about what kind of person they are. They’re a genius!

It's a message board. Giving your opinion is what you're supposed to do, right?

I've already stated I'd be happy with either quarterback. I just think Maye has the prototypical size/fundamentals/skills you look for at the position. He can also play within just about any system due to his advanced ability to read defenses and consistently progress through route trees. He's also an underrated athlete.

Williams obviously has the whole Mahomes thing going on for him with his ability to throw from multiple arm slot angles. Definitely the more creative and instinctual playmaker between the two. Serious arm talent. I have some concerns about his size but it's nothing that would prevent me from drafting him.

Both are A++ prospects. I just happen to like one a little more than the other. It's what us geniuses do.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Oh I see, you don't have a shot at Williams. Well then, my wife is the most beautiful woman in the world.

Trying to get the hype train rolling on Maye so the Bears let Caleb fall to them(Washington).

But really though if anyone thinks they really know who the best player in the draft is it says a lot about what kind of person they are. They’re a genius!

It's a message board. Giving your opinion is what you're supposed to do, right?

I've already stated I'd be happy with either quarterback. I just think Maye has the prototypical size/fundamentals/skills you look for at the position. He can also play within just about any system due to his advanced ability to read defenses and consistently progress through route trees. He's also an underrated athlete.

Williams obviously has the whole Mahomes thing going on for him with his ability to throw from multiple arm slot angles. Definitely the more creative and instinctual playmaker between the two. Serious arm talent. I have some concerns about his size but it's nothing that would prevent me from drafting him.

Both are A++ prospects. I just happen to like one a little more than the other. It's what us geniuses do.

Right on man. We get it right eventually.

[JockItch43]

Drake Maye is the best player in this draft.

Oof

Sorry you don't see it yet. Give it some time.

I watched 3 full games of his this past season to get a better idea beyond “expert” takes and highlight reels. His “cannon” is overrated, arm strength isn’t bad but isn’t anything special. I see the frame and some of the tools, but the talent doesn’t jump off the screen like with some players. Nothing wowed me, his accuracy was mediocre, and even his deep balls, which are supposedly a strength, were under thrown where the receiver made an adjustment to complete the pass.

I see some potential as a prospect and he is young with room to improve, but do not see his ceiling as being elite in the league. And if I’m drafting a guy with a top 3 pick, that’s the bar… average to decent starter is not a win.

[heir_jordan22]

I feel the exact same way!

Watch on YouTube

A taller Kyler Murray seems fair. Comparing someone to a literal HOF'er is such a disservice to both Mahomes and Williams.
We don't comp prospects to Tom Brady or Payton Manning.

I guess it depends on your definition of "comparison". Saying that they're the exact same player is lazy and ridiculous. Saying that Williams can change arm angles and play off-script like Mahomes is fair.

Basically I think it's fine to compare traits, but comparing expected careers is pretty silly.

Lawrence and Dan get very angry any time some other quarterback linked to the Bears gets hype. There are more differences in the type comparison to Kyler Murray than there are with the Patrick Mahomes one. Those 2 like the Murray one because it diminishes Caleb. On one hand they advise to not compare. And yet then they do.

It’s going to be a little difficult though if guys that literally coached Caleb like Kliff Kingsbury are in on the Mahomes comparison. Naturally we reach for comparisons, but in this case there aren’t better ones out there as a type than Mahomes. I guess you could go Kyler, but that seems at least as incomplete as the Mahomes comparison. The safest bet is that Caleb Williams will have a different career than both

Other than the height differential, why is the Murray comparison more incomplete than the Mahomes comparison?

[fleet]

I guess it depends on your definition of "comparison". Saying that they're the exact same player is lazy and ridiculous. Saying that Williams can change arm angles and play off-script like Mahomes is fair.

Basically I think it's fine to compare traits, but comparing expected careers is pretty silly.

Lawrence and Dan get very angry any time some other quarterback linked to the Bears gets hype. There are more differences in the type comparison to Kyler Murray than there are with the Patrick Mahomes one. Those 2 like the Murray one because it diminishes Caleb. On one hand they advise to not compare. And yet then they do.

It’s going to be a little difficult though if guys that literally coached Caleb like Kliff Kingsbury are in on the Mahomes comparison. Naturally we reach for comparisons, but in this case there aren’t better ones out there as a type than Mahomes. I guess you could go Kyler, but that seems at least as incomplete as the Mahomes comparison. The safest bet is that Caleb Williams will have a different career than both

Other than the height differential, why is the Murray comparison more incomplete than the Mahomes comparison?

This a types comparison. Not a quality comparison. Williams is not Mahomes or Murray. While all similar in significant ways, the differences are a matter of degrees. A coach could more easily point to Kyler Murray and say to a prospect, do what he does (in the pocket). He can’t point at Williams and Mahomes as easily because they are both doing more things that are not fundamentals.

Murray is a more a pocket passer than Williams, Mahomes in between. When Murray breaks out of there he’s more looking to run, or reset next to the pocket for a throw. Sure, he will throw brilliantly out of the pocket, and on the run, a lot more pre injury. As a matter of degrees, not quite like Williams and Mahomes with it. Both Mahomes and Williams are never not throwing from anywhere behind the line of scrimmage. And any arm slot. And Williams arm is stronger than Murray’s. As runners and athletes, would say that Caleb and Kyler are more like each other than they are with Mahomes though. Kyler is the best athlete of all 3

[heir_jordan22]

Lawrence and Dan get very angry any time some other quarterback linked to the Bears gets hype. There are more differences in the type comparison to Kyler Murray than there are with the Patrick Mahomes one. Those 2 like the Murray one because it diminishes Caleb. On one hand they advise to not compare. And yet then they do.

It’s going to be a little difficult though if guys that literally coached Caleb like Kliff Kingsbury are in on the Mahomes comparison. Naturally we reach for comparisons, but in this case there aren’t better ones out there as a type than Mahomes. I guess you could go Kyler, but that seems at least as incomplete as the Mahomes comparison. The safest bet is that Caleb Williams will have a different career than both

Other than the height differential, why is the Murray comparison more incomplete than the Mahomes comparison?

This a types comparison. Not a quality comparison. Williams is not Mahomes or Murray. While all similar in significant ways, the differences are a matter of degrees. A coach could more easily point to Kyler Murray and say to a prospect, do what he does (in the pocket). He can’t point at Williams and Mahomes as easily because they are both doing more things that are not fundamentals.

Murray is a more a pocket passer than Williams, Mahomes in between. When Murray breaks out of there he’s more looking to run, or reset next to the pocket for a throw. Sure, he will throw brilliantly out of the pocket, and on the run, a lot more pre injury. As a matter of degrees, not quite like Williams and Mahomes with it. Both Mahomes and Williams are never not throwing from anywhere behind the line of scrimmage. And any arm slot. And Williams arm is stronger than Murray’s. As runners and athletes, would say that Caleb and Kyler are more like each other than they are with Mahomes though. Kyler is the best athlete of all 3

When I watch Kyler Murray I do not think, "this guy throws more from the pocket from Mahomes." Idk where I can find advanced stats on that but I would be shocked if the data supported the assertion that Murray throws from the pocket more frequently than Mahomes AND Williams. Murray scrambles for ages to get away from pressure and even just to create passing windows because he can't see over the OL/DL. He also throws from numerous passing angles.

I'd say the biggest difference between Mahomes and the other two is that his release is quicker. And that he does a better job of resetting the pocket instead of abandoning the pocket when there is pressure. Williams and Murray both backpedal frequently to try to avoid pressure, which every quarterback does to some extent, but it seems to be a big part of what they do.

[heir_jordan22]

Zach Wilson was compared to Patrick Mahomes.

[NesimLE]

Zach Wilson was compared to Patrick Mahomes.

Wasn't that pretty much just Tony Romo? (and Ochocinco after his rookie year for some reason...)

edit: wait nvm, you're right...it was happening even pre-draft

Draft hype is absurd lol...I found someone saying Mac Jones was like "Joe Montana but with a bit less mobility" and Wilson was "like Drew Brees but bigger and more mobile"

[NecessaryEvil]

Read on Twitter

[heir_jordan22]

Zach Wilson was compared to Patrick Mahomes.

Wasn't that pretty much just Tony Romo? (and Ochocinco after his rookie year for some reason...)

edit: wait nvm, you're right...it was happening even pre-draft

Draft hype is absurd lol...I found someone saying Mac Jones was like "Joe Montana but with a bit less mobility" and Wilson was "like Drew Brees but bigger and more mobile"

My point is that pretty much any mobile quarterback with a strong arm who isn't built like Newton/Hurts/Fields will be compared to Mahomes, until we get a new "greatest of all time." Everyone was constantly comparing the best qb in the draft to Manning and Brady for years.

The comparison to Mahomes is not warranted. Murray is the closest to Mahomes' play style in the NFL, with a slightly weaker arm, slightly slower release, and slightly more frequent abandoning the pocket. That is who Williams is comparable to imo.

[fleet]

Other than the height differential, why is the Murray comparison more incomplete than the Mahomes comparison?

This a types comparison. Not a quality comparison. Williams is not Mahomes or Murray. While all similar in significant ways, the differences are a matter of degrees. A coach could more easily point to Kyler Murray and say to a prospect, do what he does (in the pocket). He can’t point at Williams and Mahomes as easily because they are both doing more things that are not fundamentals.

Murray is a more a pocket passer than Williams, Mahomes in between. When Murray breaks out of there he’s more looking to run, or reset next to the pocket for a throw. Sure, he will throw brilliantly out of the pocket, and on the run, a lot more pre injury. As a matter of degrees, not quite like Williams and Mahomes with it. Both Mahomes and Williams are never not throwing from anywhere behind the line of scrimmage. And any arm slot. And Williams arm is stronger than Murray’s. As runners and athletes, would say that Caleb and Kyler are more like each other than they are with Mahomes though. Kyler is the best athlete of all 3

When I watch Kyler Murray I do not think, "this guy throws more from the pocket from Mahomes." Idk where I can find advanced stats on that but I would be shocked if the data supported the assertion that Murray throws from the pocket more frequently than Mahomes AND Williams. Murray scrambles for ages to get away from pressure and even just to create passing windows because he can't see over the OL/DL. He also throws from numerous passing angles.

Pocket time (time spent in pocket between the snap and the throw/pressure in the pocket) was 2.4 seconds for Murray, 2.5 for Mahomes, FWIW. Those are typical and unremarkable numbers from what I understand. Quality of O-line probably factors in. Anyway.

I'd say the biggest difference between Mahomes and the other two is that his release is quicker. And that he does a better job of resetting the pocket instead of abandoning the pocket when there is pressure. Williams and Murray both backpedal frequently to try to avoid pressure, which every quarterback does to some extent, but it seems to be a big part of what they do.

I agree with that to an extent if you’re talking about the physical ball release time from the hand. Kyler’s seems slower to me than Mahomes and Caleb. Calebs looks pretty quick. And the way I heard it, shorter quarterbacks will often buy a better read of the field by getting further away from the of scrimmage.

Digging into this too deeply, It’s in the eye of the beholder perhaps.

[heir_jordan22]

This a types comparison. Not a quality comparison. Williams is not Mahomes or Murray. While all similar in significant ways, the differences are a matter of degrees. A coach could more easily point to Kyler Murray and say to a prospect, do what he does (in the pocket). He can’t point at Williams and Mahomes as easily because they are both doing more things that are not fundamentals.

Murray is a more a pocket passer than Williams, Mahomes in between. When Murray breaks out of there he’s more looking to run, or reset next to the pocket for a throw. Sure, he will throw brilliantly out of the pocket, and on the run, a lot more pre injury. As a matter of degrees, not quite like Williams and Mahomes with it. Both Mahomes and Williams are never not throwing from anywhere behind the line of scrimmage. And any arm slot. And Williams arm is stronger than Murray’s. As runners and athletes, would say that Caleb and Kyler are more like each other than they are with Mahomes though. Kyler is the best athlete of all 3

When I watch Kyler Murray I do not think, "this guy throws more from the pocket from Mahomes." Idk where I can find advanced stats on that but I would be shocked if the data supported the assertion that Murray throws from the pocket more frequently than Mahomes AND Williams. Murray scrambles for ages to get away from pressure and even just to create passing windows because he can't see over the OL/DL. He also throws from numerous passing angles.

Pocket time (time spent in pocket between the snap and the throw/pressure in the pocket) was 2.4 seconds for Murray, 2.5 for Mahomes, FWIW. Those are typical and unremarkable numbers from what I understand. Quality of O-line probably factors in. Anyway.

I'd say the biggest difference between Mahomes and the other two is that his release is quicker. And that he does a better job of resetting the pocket instead of abandoning the pocket when there is pressure. Williams and Murray both backpedal frequently to try to avoid pressure, which every quarterback does to some extent, but it seems to be a big part of what they do.

I agree with that to an extent if you’re talking about the ball release from the hand. Kyler’s seems slower to me than Mahomes and Caleb. Calebs looks pretty quick. And the way I heard it, shorter quarterbacks will often buy a better read of the field by getting further away from the of scrimmage.

Digging into this too deeply, It’s in the eye of the beholder perhaps.

Mahomes throws backhand passes, underhand tosses, random flicks, passes with has off hand - all kinds of nonsense that is unacceptable, except he completes those at an uncanny rate. Nobody else does that. Nobody else can throw a 50 yard bomb with a true flick of the wrist when defenders make contact with their arm. We haven't seen it. Not with Caleb Williams, not with Kyler Murray, not with Zach Wilson.

[Dresden]

When I watch Kyler Murray I do not think, "this guy throws more from the pocket from Mahomes." Idk where I can find advanced stats on that but I would be shocked if the data supported the assertion that Murray throws from the pocket more frequently than Mahomes AND Williams. Murray scrambles for ages to get away from pressure and even just to create passing windows because he can't see over the OL/DL. He also throws from numerous passing angles.

Pocket time (time spent in pocket between the snap and the throw/pressure in the pocket) was 2.4 seconds for Murray, 2.5 for Mahomes, FWIW. Those are typical and unremarkable numbers from what I understand. Quality of O-line probably factors in. Anyway.

I'd say the biggest difference between Mahomes and the other two is that his release is quicker. And that he does a better job of resetting the pocket instead of abandoning the pocket when there is pressure. Williams and Murray both backpedal frequently to try to avoid pressure, which every quarterback does to some extent, but it seems to be a big part of what they do.

I agree with that to an extent if you’re talking about the ball release from the hand. Kyler’s seems slower to me than Mahomes and Caleb. Calebs looks pretty quick. And the way I heard it, shorter quarterbacks will often buy a better read of the field by getting further away from the of scrimmage.

Digging into this too deeply, It’s in the eye of the beholder perhaps.

Mahomes throws backhand passes, underhand tosses, random flicks, passes with has off hand - all kinds of nonsense that is unacceptable, except he completes those at an uncanny rate. Nobody else does that. Nobody else can throw a 50 yard bomb with a true flick of the wrist when defenders make contact with their arm. We haven't seen it. Not with Caleb Williams, not with Kyler Murray, not with Zach Wilson.

Those passes looked a lot better when he had Tyreek Hill and some of the other receivers he's had there in years past. He only managed 17 pts v. BAL, and was only 6th in the league in yards this year, and 14th in QBR. I'm not saying he's not amazing, but he's looked a lot more human this year without such great receivers.

[Jeffster81]

If we trade Fields I'd be quite happy if we could do Fields for Bijan straight up. Seems like a pretty good 1 for 1 deal for both teams.

ATL would laugh us off the phone if I’m being completely honest.

RBs have very little value, trade or not. Bears would laugh at Fields for Bijan.