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From the short video it sounded like it was mainly Horace who wanted to air some things about the last dance. Longley seemed to just be having a good time. Scottie looked surprisingly calm in both videos...probably just doing it for some money.

Dez wrote:I don't see why people think Longley will be bashing MJ?

MJ literally did an interview for the mini-series on Longley last year here in Australia.

Exactly, Jordan even had some glowing praise for Longley in that interview, Luc was quite taken aback.

kodo wrote:From the short video it sounded like it was mainly Horace who wanted to air some things about the last dance. Longley seemed to just be having a good time. Scottie looked surprisingly calm in both videos...probably just doing it for some money.

I agree. After watching that video I didn't see it as "MJ bashing" as other people seem to think it'll be (there's a thread on the General Board about this too).

Hard pass for me. This is corny and a money grab in my view.

Can someone tell me how the last dance Doc really made these guys look bad???? Like to the way they should be acting like this. I don't feel like watching it again, but I honestly can't remember anything so bad as they make it be

BeatDaCavs420 wrote:Can someone tell me how the last dance Doc really made these guys look bad???? Like to the way they should be acting like this. I don't feel like watching it again, but I honestly can't remember anything so bad as they make it be

I'm not sure that they are so upset that the phrase "act like this" will be true (ie, I presume you mean they're going on a Jordan witch hunt). There seems to be an assumption that it's going to be a straight up Jordan bash fest, but I kind of doubt that will be true as they'd likely get booed off the stage. I think they'll all acknowledge how great Jordan was but try to elevate their own roles and then just tell their stories. My guess is they'll try to elevate their own stature more so than tear Jordan down.

That said the reasons each may have been upset about the doc:
Longley just wasn't included at all (and Jordan felt bad and did an interview for Longley's doc to make it up to him

Grant was super pissed that Jordan accused him of giving Sam Smith stories and probably also felt he wasn't featured enough in a positive light.

Pippen expected to be viewed as the same caliber as Jordan, that they were the dynamic duo, instead of him being a clear secondary sidekick and probably was annoyed that they put in several damning (but quite factual) sections on him about being pissed about his contract and getting surgery late and sitting out the last play against NY where Tony hit the game winner.

Scottie is a would be fun subject for a documentary. Humble beginnings. Rags to riches story. Professional mistake after mistake by his own making. Ex wife hooking up with the son of his uberest of uber famous cohorts with whom he built his fame with. Pip has had a wild ride and one that you oddly feel almost bad for him in a crazy way.

Jordan has pretty much said he couldn't win without these guys but yet they want to focus on the negative parts of the documentary.

step wrote:

Dez wrote:I don't see why people think Longley will be bashing MJ?

MJ literally did an interview for the mini-series on Longley last year here in Australia.

Well, how much of that was due to the bad press after not featuring him at all in the doco?

I totally get that he isn't solely to blame here too... most probably falls on the production crew and applicable roles behind that. But yeah, it did not look good initially. That being said, I do not think Longley will be out to bash him either, he's had a pretty solid/consistent view of things. He's always been fond of his time here from memory.

He wasn't featured because they didn't want to fly out crew to Longley's home, not because of Jordan.

Dez wrote:I don't see why people think Longley will be bashing MJ?

MJ literally did an interview for the mini-series on Longley last year here in Australia.

Overall, Horace seems the most irrationally angry. Luc Longley was pretty straight forward that he didn't have a competitive personality and felt uncomfortable being pushed into a 'killer' mentality by Jordan -- that was basically the gist of his Australian companion doc for the Last Dance. He was a gentle giant and didn't have the teeth that Jordan wanted.

As for Pip, well that's more complicated than the media and basketball fandom makes it. Like, yeah, you have his ex-wife and Jordan's son in their public relationship that ran its' short course; then you have Pippen's autobiography that's probably one of the most boring sports biography's I've read. It really has no narrative. It's really just him recalling a bunch stat lines and individual performances. It got so boring to read, 'That game I put in 22 points, 8 assists, and 7 rebounds --it was a very balanced performance,' over and over. He really does flip flop between kind of being petulant towards Jordan's reputation, fame, and on-court narcissism in one paragraph -- but then you have him openly praising that he was in a historical caliber by himself in what he could do on the court in the next. It darts wildly and inexplicably between passive aggressive resentment and profound respect.

It's really hard to nail down who Pip is. Every piece of writing, journalism, and interviews from his old teammates, Pippen is built up to be this man about town friend of all ultimate teammate. Kerr, Wennington, Longley, Kukoc all gush about him; he was universally loved by his teammates, this unconditional nurturing and caring force that was always there and looking out. Hell even Eddie Robinson has talked about how awesome Pippen was to him. Then you have these stories of him being extremely aloof/horrible from no-tippin' Pippen to guys like Nocioni being humbled and star struck meeting him and basically having Scottie tell him to GTFO and suck his dick.

If nothing else though, the fact that he's still in daily contact with Luc Longley, Randy Brown, Dickie Simpkins, Jason Caffey, etc etc says something.

Perhaps if Kobe had a mediator like Pippen in his Jermey Lin, Swaggy P, Boozer days he could have rallied the troops a little. Who knows. An enigma on top of a mystery.

dougthonus wrote:

BeatDaCavs420 wrote:Can someone tell me how the last dance Doc really made these guys look bad???? Like to the way they should be acting like this. I don't feel like watching it again, but I honestly can't remember anything so bad as they make it be

I'm not sure that they are so upset that the phrase "act like this" will be true (ie, I presume you mean they're going on a Jordan witch hunt). There seems to be an assumption that it's going to be a straight up Jordan bash fest, but I kind of doubt that will be true as they'd likely get booed off the stage. I think they'll all acknowledge how great Jordan was but try to elevate their own roles and then just tell their stories. My guess is they'll try to elevate their own stature more so than tear Jordan down.

That said the reasons each may have been upset about the doc:
Longley just wasn't included at all (and Jordan felt bad and did an interview for Longley's doc to make it up to him

Grant was super pissed that Jordan accused him of giving Sam Smith stories and probably also felt he wasn't featured enough in a positive light.

Pippen expected to be viewed as the same caliber as Jordan, that they were the dynamic duo, instead of him being a clear secondary sidekick and probably was annoyed that they put in several damning (but quite factual) sections on him about being pissed about his contract and getting surgery late and sitting out the last play against NY where Tony hit the game winner.

Thanks Doug!

prolific passer wrote:Jordan has pretty much said he couldn't win without these guys but yet they want to focus on the negative parts of the documentary.

This is kind of ironic, isn’t it? You are being critical of the guys who want to flesh out the story that was presented. But you are not critical of MJ for asserting editorial control over The Last Dance to make sure he stayed the untarnished hero of it all.

Here’s a quote from an NBC Chicago article after it came out with a nugget from the MJ of Documentarians calling it out for being propaganda rather than journalism or history.

But the explicit understanding that Michael Jordan would have input and final say through every step of the series’ editorial process should affect the lens through which we perceive it. As Ken Burns told the Wall Street Journal recently, “The Last Dance” is not good journalism, nor is it good history. No matter how much enjoyment you’ve gotten from the doc, it’s hard to argue with that point.

And you are fine with that, but not with the other players adding their stories?

Ken Burns is usually great but I'd take that comment as a grain of salt, he made it without ever actually watching the Last Dance.

So ashamed that these are my Chicago Bull icons from the 90s, they have grown to be bitter old men. Do better, all of you signed contracts to be apart of the Last Dance Documentary. You knew what the concept of the documentary was about. Just sad to see these guys try to tear apart their former teammates' legacy when MJ has never talked down about any of them.

Even when he said the comment about Longely in the last dance not having an impact in the second half of their game against the Jazz in the regular season after killing it in the first half, it was just a matter of him wanting Longley to be consistent for 48 minutes versus half of a game.

Seriously ashamed of where we are with our former Chicago Bulls icons from our Dynasty teams.

WherePipAt wrote:Ken Burns is usually great but I'd take that comment as a grain of salt, he made it without ever actually watching the Last Dance.

And yet I’ve seen it, and can confirm that he was right. Indeed, he’s presumably talking about how it’s not real history or journalism specifically because the key subject of the piece had final editorial control. Which is a joke.

Would you believe in the historical accuracy and journalistic integrity of a documentary about Biden or Trump over which they had final say over the content? Of course not. That is what Burns is saying.

And considering he’s the master, if he’s talking about objective integrity in the documentary process no salt is necessary. It was entertainment, not a genuine documentary driven to find the truth of a matter. Which is fine. But we should not confuse the two.

jacoby1us wrote:So ashamed that these are my Chicago Bull icons from the 90s, they have grown to be bitter old men. Do better, all of you signed contracts to be apart of the Last Dance Documentary. You knew what the concept of the documentary was about. Just sad to see these guys try to tear apart their former teammates' legacy when MJ has never talked down about any of them.

Even when he said the comment about Longely in the last dance not having an impact in the second half of their game against the Jazz in the regular season after killing it in the first half, it was just a matter of him wanting Longley to be consistent for 48 minutes versus half of a game.

Seriously ashamed of where we are with our former Chicago Bulls icons from our Dynasty teams.

^ this is a perfect example of what I’m talking about. No wonder famous and wealthy people so often get to play by a different set of rules.

I'm honestly happy this is happening, because this can only mean one thing: someone's gonna take it personally and we're gonna get The Last Dance Part II.

DuckIII wrote:

jacoby1us wrote:So ashamed that these are my Chicago Bull icons from the 90s, they have grown to be bitter old men. Do better, all of you signed contracts to be apart of the Last Dance Documentary. You knew what the concept of the documentary was about. Just sad to see these guys try to tear apart their former teammates' legacy when MJ has never talked down about any of them.

Even when he said the comment about Longely in the last dance not having an impact in the second half of their game against the Jazz in the regular season after killing it in the first half, it was just a matter of him wanting Longley to be consistent for 48 minutes versus half of a game.

Seriously ashamed of where we are with our former Chicago Bulls icons from our Dynasty teams.

^ this is a perfect example of what I’m talking about. No wonder famous and wealthy people so often get to play by a different set of rules.

Please do tell me what will they discuss that we as the fans don't already know about MJ?

- Not a nice person
- Not a nice teammate
- Wouldn't have won without us
- Primary Dominant hand was right for many many years.

FriedRise wrote:I'm honestly happy this is happening, because this can only mean one thing: someone's gonna take it personally and we're gonna get The Last Dance Part II.

It'll be like airplane 2.

DuckIII wrote:

prolific passer wrote:Jordan has pretty much said he couldn't win without these guys but yet they want to focus on the negative parts of the documentary.

This is kind of ironic, isn’t it? You are being critical of the guys who want to flesh out the story that was presented. But you are not critical of MJ for asserting editorial control over The Last Dance to make sure he stayed the untarnished hero of it all.

Here’s a quote from an NBC Chicago article after it came out with a nugget from the MJ of Documentarians calling it out for being propaganda rather than journalism or history.

But the explicit understanding that Michael Jordan would have input and final say through every step of the series’ editorial process should affect the lens through which we perceive it. As Ken Burns told the Wall Street Journal recently, “The Last Dance” is not good journalism, nor is it good history. No matter how much enjoyment you’ve gotten from the doc, it’s hard to argue with that point.

And you are fine with that, but not with the other players adding their stories?

Yeah I'm fantastic with all that.