"Big" SG or just "Bigger" SG: You Decide

[tclg]

terrence kinsey i think he got cut by the grizzlies he seemed decent

[SensiBull]

James Jones in Portland looks interesting too.

[SensiBull]

RyGuy24, Damien Wilkins has come across my radar a couple of times too.

Suburban, I realize that the more you ask for in a 2, the more you have to give up from the core to get him. I deliberately worded the OP to express that I'm looking for a defensive 2 with one of a range of skills, and then I proceeded to make an attempt at prioritizing those skills in terms of importance to this team (3-ball, passing, driving, etc.).

To those who mentioned Thabo, I just wanted to point out that I don't necessarily think that Thabo (or any 2/3 for that matter) is what the Bulls really need. I don't thinik we need to create mismatches at the 2 spot. We just need to field a 'regulation size' player. Thabo is a bit large for a 2, and I wonder if guys in the 6'5-6'6" 190-210 range wouldn't be a bit lightfooted for Thabo.

Finally, to those who point out the urgency of getting a post player, you are absolutely preaching to the choir on that one.

From the time we traded Eddy, despite all of the flack I take for it, I've said we have taken a step back. I thought I was proven wrong by last season, and then this season happens. Not to mention that the rebuilding teams who spent their draft picks and playing time on developing a young Center with some offensive game (Orlando, Portland) seem to be rebuilding more quickly than we are. I don't need to be reminded that we lack a post presence.

I've argued throughout this rebuilding that I thought that rebuilding from the outside in was a bad strategy, because it meant that, as we got better along the way, we would find ourselves using an increasingly low pick on the Center, which seems counter-intuitive for a rebuilding franchise. Again, I don't need to be reminded that we lack a post presence.

I argued at the time of the Ben Wallace signing that a 6'8" Center with no offensive game wasn't going to fix the problem that was created when we lost the offensive post presence that Eddy Curry brought. I'm telling you. I don't need to be reminded that we need a post presence.

On the other hand, there are millions of threads about post players. We don't need another one. And, the fact is, we have two undersized scoring guards in Hinrich and Gordon. Gordon's a great SG, but needs a tall PG, and Hinrich's a decent PG, who needs a 6'6" version of Ben Gordon. So, there IS a need, and it shouldn't be taboo to discuss it.

BTW, for my money, it'd be easier to find a tall PG to work with Gordon than to find a 6'6" version of Ben Gordon, by far.

[tclg]

I think thabos length would allow him to defend all but the fastest twos

[SensiBull]

Thinking a little bit outside the box here, I'd love it if the Bulls can somehow get theor hands on Javaris Crittenton. I'm not sure if they'd be interested in Noc since they have Walton & Ariza at the SF position, but if they are, the following deal gives us our PG of the future, allows us to shed salary, opens up minutes in our frontcourt, and gives us flexibility in the draft as well as trade options next year:

Noc, Duhon, Griffin
Kwame, Crittenton, Karl

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/t ... &te=&cash=

Kirk/Crittenton
BG/Sefolosha
Deng/TT
Smith/Noah/TT
Wallace/Kwame/Gray

Jarvis Crittendon was an on-point suggestion. That one fascinates me. Gotta look into him a bit more, but I do recall that he was billed as a combo guard, and he does have stock standard SG size. Good suggestion, Sonny D1.

I like what the trade proposal does for the Bulls, but I have no idea why the Lakers would do it.

How was Crittendon's defense/3-point shooting in college? NBAdraft.net's description of him makes it seem like his outside shot isn't much to speak of, and, if we're going to get a 6'5" primary ballhandler, to try to avoid Ben's turnovers, it'd be nice to know that the defense has to respect his shot enough to actually have to come out to the perimeter and guard him. Otherwise, opposing defenders can just camp out in the lane knowing that, outside of Gordon, no one on our team can hit the broad side of a barn from any more than maybe 15 feet out. Spacing issue.

[tclg]

Lakers do it to get kobe more help

fisher
kobe
nocioni
odom
bynum

That lineup looks pretty damn good

[DuckIII]

I've thrown around this generic idea with very little thought about the specifics or mechanics for about a week now:

Consolidate Nocioni and Duhon plus fodder if necessary for a 2/3 reserve with size.

The Bulls lose nothing by way of production, in my opinion, and this will hasten additional playing time for Thomas, Noah and Thabo. Also, unlike Ben Wallace trades, this is realistic because I believe Nocioni and Duhon could have value to a lot teams around the NBA.

I haven't given a ton of thought to who the Bulls could acquire and won't give any thought to salaries, which should really irritate Bulls6 .

Here is a rough list without regard to those factors:

John Salmons
Francisco Garcia
Corey Maggette
Damien Wilkins
Josh Childress
Kelena Azuibuke
Michael Finley
Matt Barnes
Gordon Giricek
Anthony Parker
Mo Pete
Matt Carrol
Delante West
Corey Brewer
Mickael Pietrus

I'm just spitballing. But the one realistic move, thats not a huge move, that I'd like to see this season is packaging Chapu and Du for a reserve 2/3.

[tclg]

I would love to get childress on this team

[SuburbanOasis]

Since I believe the point of adding a mostly defensive 2 is unnecessary, the only 2 I would go after would have a strong offensive game with an above average but not excellent defensive game.

As I stated in a previous thread, Mike Miller would be my #1 target in this regard.

Noce would obviously be lost in the trade, which is fine, because Miller can take on all of his minutes at the 3, and if Duhon was included in the package would also take on all of his minutes in the backcourt. It would probably take Du/Noce/#1 to get the deal done, and we may even have to throw in griff/filler and take back Stoudamire, but it would be worth it.

Miller would compliment our guards incredibly well because he has the all around skill sets of Hinrich and Gordon, only in a 6'6/6'7 frame. He is basically a bigger Hinrich with worse handles.

Getting Miller would, when healthy, solidify our 1-2-3 for the next 5+ years. With Tyrus/Smith/Noah/Gray/Wallace in the frontcourt, we could develop players while still being competitive in the mean time.

This is the only player I would look for in a trade, the Bulls have enough defensive players to get by right now despite their imperfect sizes. Any players we bring in should bring an offensive element to the team, especially if it means sacrificing Noce.

[BigUps]

I'd also look to see if Houston would be willing to part with Bonzi Wells. He'd fill 2 holes. A quality, big, defensive minded 2 guard and a post presence.

He's cheap too.

[Sonny_D1]

He'd fill 2 holes.

I'm sorry, I just had to laugh........

[BrewCityBBQ]

You guys need Michael Redd

[SactownHrtBrks8]

Sounds like you need a John Salmons who is a top notch defender and can distribute. he also is clutch comes up with some big baskets. great slasher

[Ben]

Sounds like you need a John Salmons who is a top notch defender and can distribute. he also is clutch comes up with some big baskets. great slasher

Salmons' name has come up here lately, but IMO he's at the absolute peak of his value, won't come cheaply, and hasn't really proven that he's as good offensively as he has looked with the Kings' starters out.

SuburbanOasis, Mike Miller does not play above average defense against shooting guards. He's primarily a 3 on defense (or else the Grizz would be SET at SG, but they're not). I would rather have Maggette than Miller b/c while neither of them plays good defense against SGs, Maggette can slash and get to the line a lot and we need those skills.

Pietrus is an absolute no-no b/c he's not that good on offense and he's not good on defense.

I would like Josh Childress very much but I don't see why the Hawks would trade him for a 3/4 (Noc) since they're loaded with tweeners.

I would do a trade for Crittenton as well. I don't think that he's known for any kind of defensive prowess, but he's young and so hopefully, as Harold Ramis said in Stripes, he would be "willing to learn." (A great line given the context. )

So: Noc and scraps for Childress (very unlikely), Maggette or Crittenton. If only Mike Miller is available and that's it, I'd say yes as well.

Get 'er done, Pax!

[SensiBull]

What do you guys think of DeShawn Stevenson?

[ikeziskash]

Stevenson? Nah, I'd prefer Thabo

[Sonny_D1]

What do you guys think of DeShawn Stevenson?

I know he lost a 3 point shooting contest against Arenas, with Arenas only allowed to use ONE hand

Seriously though, he's just meh to me. I think I'd look at some of the other options mentioned in this thread.

[SuburbanOasis]

-= original quote snipped =-

SuburbanOasis, Mike Miller does not play above average defense against shooting guards. He's primarily a 3 on defense (or else the Grizz would be SET at SG, but they're not). I would rather have Maggette than Miller b/c while neither of them plays good defense against SGs, Maggette can slash and get to the line a lot and we need those skills.

His defense is at the very least average against SG's. It may be nothing special,but is certainly isn't bad. Not to mention the fact that he does everything else well. He can shoot, pass and dribble efficiently. Also, I don't call them set at SG or SF because teams need at least 3 options at any 2 positions to be set. With Gay/Miller they have 2 very good options at the 2/3, but lack a good backup.

IMO there is no point in going after a 2 to simply play defense. If we got a decent defensive 2 who is good offensively I would be much happier than if we got a great defensive 2 who can't do anything offensively... We have those players.

Maggette is fine, although I would personally rather add shooters than slashers.

Looking at long term pieces I see Miller fitting in better than Maggette. I just feel like we already have guys who should be active around the basket and adding shooters will help their offensive games more than slashers. Our guys may not have the best post moves, but those can be overcame if the defense has to concentrate on 3pt shooters. If all the defense has to do is concentrate on Tyrus and Noah's less than stellar post game in conjunction with guys who also need to get in to the paint to be effective we are screwed.

Not to mention adding shooters helps Kirk/Deng/Gordon because it helps spread the floor and allows them to penetrate better. Maggette will not be stretching any floor with consistency.

[step]

Maggette is fine, although I would personally rather add shooters than slashers.

Why would you want to add more of the same?

Not to mention adding shooters helps Kirk/Deng/Gordon because it helps spread the floor and allows them to penetrate better.

Everyone knows what will happen when Kirk penetrates, absolutely nothing. And sadly Deng and Gordon aren't that much better. While things are slowly changing, I don't expect to see our trio magically transform into totally different players.

Maggette will not be stretching any floor with consistency.

Getting good looks hasn't been that much of a problem in my opinion, what has been is that the team has no-one to turn to when their shots aren't falling. Maggette would at least provide some offensive production during those dry spells.

[SensiBull]

-= original quote snipped =-



His defense is at the very least average against SG's. It may be nothing special,but is certainly isn't bad. Not to mention the fact that he does everything else well. He can shoot, pass and dribble efficiently. Also, I don't call them set at SG or SF because teams need at least 3 options at any 2 positions to be set. With Gay/Miller they have 2 very good options at the 2/3, but lack a good backup.

IMO there is no point in going after a 2 to simply play defense. If we got a decent defensive 2 who is good offensively I would be much happier than if we got a great defensive 2 who can't do anything offensively... We have those players.

Maggette is fine, although I would personally rather add shooters than slashers.

Looking at long term pieces I see Miller fitting in better than Maggette. I just feel like we already have guys who should be active around the basket and adding shooters will help their offensive games more than slashers. Our guys may not have the best post moves, but those can be overcame if the defense has to concentrate on 3pt shooters. If all the defense has to do is concentrate on Tyrus and Noah's less than stellar post game in conjunction with guys who also need to get in to the paint to be effective we are screwed.

Not to mention adding shooters helps Kirk/Deng/Gordon because it helps spread the floor and allows them to penetrate better. Maggette will not be stretching any floor with consistency.

Excellent post. Agreed on shooters rather than slashers. Just not convinced Miller is a realistic option on a nightly basis at the 2 spot.

Step, how could you say that brining in a shooter would be more of the same? The only decent shooter from range on the whole team is Ben Gordon and the problem is that defenses know this and smother him, leaving us with no one to keep the defense honest. You put two guys on Gordon and everybody else just waits in the paint because anybody else who gets the ball is going to have to enter the paint to score. No spacing.

We need a shooter much more than we need a slasher. Let Tyrus and Luol make the off the ball cuts. We need a backcourt player who is effective from the backcourt, not a fourth body in the paint on offense every trip down the court.