Sef-a-LO-shaaaaaa

[Cliff Levingston]

but you know what, ( i cant believe im saying this because its thabo) these ideas do make sense. i just need to see more of thabo to be absolutely sure.

In order for any guy to succeed, you need to give him a regular spot in the rotation with some normal, consistent expectations. You can't play a guy 25 minutes one night then 3 the next, while asking him to play defense one night then be a scorer the next.

Give Thabo a regular spot in the rotation backing up the 3 (while also using him to back up the 2 sometimes) and you'll see a much better, consistent player.

[#1TKfan]

-= original quote snipped =-


In order for any guy to succeed, you need to give him a regular spot in the rotation with some normal, consistent expectations. You can't play a guy 25 minutes one night then 3 the next, while asking him to play defense one night then be a scorer the next.

Give Thabo a regular spot in the rotation backing up the 3 (while also using him to back up the 2 sometimes) and you'll see a much better, consistent player.

youre right. thats why i dont like the direction the team is going w/ the vets right now. we cant know for sure until we see them (sefo, TT, noah, gray) on a consistent basis.
especially TT, for me. i think he could be a powerhouse. i know a lot of people here question his bball I.Q., but he has shown good flashes.

[BULLHITTER]

i've posted this philosophy a number of times in other forums, but it bears repeating here; while some fans have the ability to recognize "potential", and as such base their assessments on smaller sample size or on court awareness, etc., many, many fans only can see what the see. it's why so many can't see anything in thomas, or that gray is "so slow", etc.; players must be afforded time to adjust to the nba game; it's light years competitively different than any other level jump.

i've always felt sef had dennis johnson potential, and i wondered why skiles seemed so reluctant to use him. in retrospect, it appears skiles was poor at helping develop/nuture talent and it showed early in the year with the team's poor start. seems to me i read sef worked out against brewer and roy, and based on those pax made the pick; i'm finding it hard to believe that if roy (who i consider a wonderful player and would have been a great pick for the bulls) was a clearly better player than sef, pax went in the other direction for a lesser player; that goes against everything he's done as a drafter thus far. this isn't to say sef will be or is as good as roy, just that at the time, there wasn't a huge difference in ability that would a) drop roy to 13th or whatever pick sef was acquired; or b) pick roy much earlier, because of his "can't miss" status.

that stated, if boylan has any foresight, he'll let thabo play through mistakes and poor shooting (can he be worse that CD?), so he'll learn what methods work best for him offensively, and he'll acclimate himself to playing alongside ben and kirk.

while most here see him as a 3/2, i see a 2/3 with some point forward skills, or an extra ball handler during those crunch periods when the team is trying to get gordon free for a good look, thabo becomes a nice option to have as a ballhandler.

[BULLHITTER]

youre right. thats why i dont like the direction the team is going w/ the vets right now. we cant know for sure until we see them (sefo, TT, noah, gray) on a consistent basis.
especially TT, for me. i think he could be a powerhouse. i know a lot of people here question his bball I.Q., but he has shown good flashes.

i don't know why fans believe that playing/developing young players = at the expense of winning. they're mutually exclusive; if the core players are playing at their optimum, shouldn't it be expected that the development of the younger players will be as "support" for the core?

this team was only going to go as far as the core group was going to take it anyway. playing younger players only adds to the development of the team as a whole, sooner rather than later, even if vets get the larger share; not some "we're putting our championship dreams on hold" until TT, AG, TS, JN are really ready.

who knows if that will ever be? it's not a given....play the guys, but just win......it solves and absolves......any and all issues.

[ATRAIN53]

trade him today while his stock is pointing UP after that game!!!

(he should have slowed up on that break-away play and dunked it and looked to draw the foul!!!)

[cool007]

That's the thing, if Duhon was playing like he was early in the year, then I have no problem Thabo not getting minutes but Duhon is probably the worst player to be playing any more than scrub minutes.

Since duhon is sucking, why not give those minutes to Thabo and see what he can do for us?

If something positive comes out of it, then it will only help us now and for the future and Duhon can be either traded with a little ease.

I really hope we try Thabo for few more games for atleast 5 to 10 minutes a game if not more.

if he still sucks, we can always pull him out of the game.

[#1TKfan]

youre right. thats why i dont like the direction the team is going w/ the vets right now. we cant know for sure until we see them (sefo, TT, noah, gray) on a consistent basis.
especially TT, for me. i think he could be a powerhouse. i know a lot of people here question his bball I.Q., but he has shown good flashes.

i don't know why fans believe that playing/developing young players = at the expense of winning. they're mutually exclusive; if the core players are playing at their optimum, shouldn't it be expected that the development of the younger players will be as "support" for the core?

this team was only going to go as far as the core group was going to take it anyway. playing younger players only adds to the development of the team as a whole, sooner rather than later, even if vets get the larger share; not some "we're putting our championship dreams on hold" until TT, AG, TS, JN are really ready.

who knows if that will ever be? it's not a given....play the guys, but just win......it solves and absolves......any and all issues.

because i dont think the core will be intact for long. and the older vets that we have now? except for smith (who is getting up there in age) are expendable.

[BULLHITTER]

ok, but who's to say what (and which) are/is "intact for long"? the players that are the most consistent regardless of whether the organization sees them as "long term" are going to see the court, if for no other reason than showcase value.

i'll admit that at this point it's tough for a gm, to "stay the course" but with the season being as unpredictable as it's been thus far, waiting for the right deal, while still trying to win is a better overall scenario.

whether the team's poised to win a finals or not isn't the big picture when attempting to woo big ticket FA's or "superstars" in trade.

joe johnson's the only player in recent memory to opt himself to a losing team for the sake of big coin and being the man; i'd say that hasn't worked out as perfectly as he might of liked, but then you never know. and while this isn't the greatest example, i don't believe getting ben wallace (or any equivalent "star) at his dollars would've been possible had ben not seen winning potential and background in this group.

[85Bears]

As inconsistent as Thabo has been, I would like to see him get the start (gulp) over Duhon. CD's minutes are realy just throw in until coach feels its time to put in Gordon. I would start Thabo as much to get Hinrich going, than to get Thabo going. We arent counting on any points from CDU right now, so might as well not count on points from Thabo.

Let Kirk be a PG. Thats it. Guard Point guards, and play point guard. If thabo or Kirk are sucking it up you can bring in BG for either. At least Kirk would get 4 minutes off of guarding the other top guard. this is assuming Thabo can cover SG's. If he cant, he has no business on this team. For me, we need a big guard on D and someone who can drive to the basket and finish, even more so than low post scoring. Thabo was drafted to do this. Lets see if he can. We know what Duhon can do.

[MGB8]

I think that John Salmons is exactly the reason why you don't cut bait with Thabo just quite yet. Salmons sucked for years in Philly. He has a similar skillset to Thabo. He got a little better each year, and now, in the last two years, he's been a consistently solid player. Thabo looks to be on that kind of path. Keep him around, cheap. He's no sulking VK.

[Cliff Levingston]

Cliff Levingston wouldn't be afraid to use Thabo as filler or incentive in a trade. He also wouldn't be afraid to rely on Thabo in a backup SF capacity should another trade call upon it.

Thabo just seems to be the kind of guy who responds incredibly unfavorably to negative re-enforcement (i.e. taking away minutes because of mistakes, etc). We just need to show some confidence in him, give him some slack and ICLO he could be a solid rotation player for us at the 3 (playing spot at 2).

[dougthonus]

while some fans have the ability to recognize "potential", and as such base their assessments on smaller sample size or on court awareness, etc., many, many fans only can see what the see. it's why so many can't see anything in thomas, or that gray is "so slow", etc.

No matter who the player is, some fan will recognize his potential. Quite simply, you rarely get to even make an NBA roster without having some potential. Show me the fan who is consistently right about guys who are not obvious and give him a job in the NBA. Your examples imply that both Thomas and Gray are foregone conclusions to succeed in the NBA and that fan with the potential seeing gene would already have come to this conclusion. Personally, I think either player could be good in the NBA, and I agree with the potential of both players, however, both players also have significant issues they must overcome in order to fulfill that, and that is not a foregone conclusion regardless of how they are coached.

it's light years competitively different than any other level jump.

This is so fundamentally not true. Players can jump from the NCAA to the NBA easier than probably any sport. Baseball players have to typically spend years in the minor leagues before coming up to play in the majors. Football players can't even declare until they are juniors and outside of a couple positions typically take years in the NFL to have a big impact.

[DuckIII]

Its being overlooked here, but its worth noting that if Thabo is inserted into the starting line-up the Bulls become significantly more dreamy.

[suckfish]

What better to wake you up from that dream than by listening to the music on Thabo's official website..

http://www.thabosefolosha.com/

THUG-4-LYFE!

[BULLHITTER]

This is so fundamentally not true. Players can jump from the NCAA to the NBA easier than probably any sport. Baseball players have to typically spend years in the minor leagues before coming up to play in the majors. Football players can't even declare until they are juniors and outside of a couple positions typically take years in the NFL to have a big impact.

i don't agree; while football does require physical maturity that 18 year olds don't generally possess, basketball IQ, games played, coaching (or lack thereof) all prepare youngsters quite a bit for the nba. if they haven't had it, the term "raw" is generally tossed about. not to mention the rigors of going from 29-30 games to close to 100 including preseason. going pro without it makes it infinitely more difficult to immediately have an impact.

also, my assertions about thomas/gray were more in tune with the fact that the thread made assumptions/predictions about their talent as though they were finished products; they clearly aren't. seeing their court comportment, watching them apply their current skill set, would indicate that the casual fan is missing some of the less obvious items that will evolve as their opportunities increase and as their knowledge of the nba increases as well. some fans will ignore this completely.

i also didn't compare them to other sports primarily because it's apples and oranges with respect to any of the other, even lesser pro sports.

[cark]

Yeah pax needs to make a trade with Du and Noc.

You don't trade guys who play the right way and give their all in practice, no matter how much they hurt your team.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

-= original quote snipped =-


You don't trade guys who play the right way and give their all in practice, no matter how much they hurt your team.

What kind of thinking is that?


I love a go-getter as much as the next guy - but if he's hurting your team, he's no good to anyone.

[DuckIII]

-= original quote snipped =-



What kind of thinking is that?


I love a go-getter as much as the next guy - but if he's hurting your team, he's no good to anyone.

I'd wager that cark was being sarcastic.

[cark]

You're right, Duck. Didn't mean to scare you, Magilla. I just hate the green font. It ruins everything.

As inconsistent as Thabo has been, I would like to see him get the start (gulp) over Duhon. CD's minutes are realy just throw in until coach feels its time to put in Gordon.

Seriously. If they're already wasted minutes, why not replace old crap with new crap? Give Thabo a chance. Unless he starts scoring own-goals, he can't be much worse.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Now that I have read a few more of Carks posts... I know what to expect in the future. Sarcasm duly noted...