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NecessaryEvil wrote:

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So, he was ALMOST out of here, until he wasn't

AK fkd up and moved like a turtle. If there’s any chance the Pistons still want Zach then AK should now add an asset to get it done.Such a terrible contract at this point just do what you got to do to get rid of him.

Detroit aren’t going for anything this season so even if Zach is out for 6 months there’s no problem for them. Only they need to believe that Zach will be fully healthy after this foot surgery, hopefully it’s just a minor thing that just takes time to heal.

Whaaaamy!!!!

Bulls poverty franchise

League Circles wrote:

burlydee wrote:

League Circles wrote:
Giddey is a terrible shooter without much size. Is he a really good defender or something that would justify penciling him in as a long term starter? I admit I certainly haven't watched him much but he's obviously not better than Coby, Caruso, or Zach right now so unless he's so much better than Patrick (is he even better at all?) to justify penciling him in as our long term SF AND thus trading Patrick for something now OR we want to go forward with a hilariously ridiculous lineup of Coby/Zach/Giddey/Williams/Vuc, we should definitely pass on Giddey for Demar IMO.

Who said anything about trading PWill? Some teams try to acquire multiple good young players.

PWill is a 3-4. Giddy is a 2-3. He's a facilitator which the Bulls need. He's only 21.

Caruso won't be on the team when the Bulls are ready to compete. Zach doesn't want to be here. Derozan is going to want $30 million.

Its time to flip this roster. Sell the old guys for value. Resigning a 35 year old DeMar makes no sense and you're not going to have cap space even if you let him go. Trading him now is imperative.

Zach is stuck on this team indefinitely. We actually can pretty trivially have like 20+ mil of cap space this summer if we want (though we probably shouldn't want to). It's imperative that we clear salary to take advantage of Coby's value contract while we can. That means this summer or next summer we need to have bad contracts off the books, and Giddey projects to be a bad contract (or cap hold, more precisely) by then.

Oh wait, I just realized who Giddey is in terms of his controversy. Hell no am I trading Demar for him AND bad salary.

We can't clear cap space without renouncing PWill and Demar. And who are we paying with that cap space? There is nobody on the market. There aren't any good free agents the Bulls can attract with that money.

Our opinions on Giddey differ. I think he could be a cornerstone. But regardless of that, the Bulls with Demar is just going to be mediocrity. That's it. They either trade him, resign him to a bad contract or lose him for nothing. This is the exact same mistake they made with Vuc.

burlydee wrote:

League Circles wrote:

burlydee wrote:
Who said anything about trading PWill? Some teams try to acquire multiple good young players.

PWill is a 3-4. Giddy is a 2-3. He's a facilitator which the Bulls need. He's only 21.

Caruso won't be on the team when the Bulls are ready to compete. Zach doesn't want to be here. Derozan is going to want $30 million.

Its time to flip this roster. Sell the old guys for value. Resigning a 35 year old DeMar makes no sense and you're not going to have cap space even if you let him go. Trading him now is imperative.

Zach is stuck on this team indefinitely. We actually can pretty trivially have like 20+ mil of cap space this summer if we want (though we probably shouldn't want to). It's imperative that we clear salary to take advantage of Coby's value contract while we can. That means this summer or next summer we need to have bad contracts off the books, and Giddey projects to be a bad contract (or cap hold, more precisely) by then.

Oh wait, I just realized who Giddey is in terms of his controversy. Hell no am I trading Demar for him AND bad salary.

We can't clear cap space without renouncing PWill and Demar. And who are we paying with that cap space? There is nobody on the market. There aren't any good free agents the Bulls can attract with that money.

Our opinions on Giddey differ. I think he could be a cornerstone. But regardless of that, the Bulls with Demar is just going to be mediocrity. That's it. They either trade him, resign him to a bad contract or lose him for nothing. This is the exact same mistake they made with Vuc.

Losing Vuc for nothing was the right answer. It was their mistake to not let him walk. Not sure what you see in Giddey because I don't watch him, but his shooting is a big concern given how big of a chance he's had.

You're right about free agency at least this summer which is why I said we probably shouldn't want to clear cap space. But next summer when Giddey has a huge cap hold I'd much rather try to get a player that we wouldn't want to upgrade right away.

Regardless, not sure why OKC would want to upset their formula right now for an old expiring Demar.

I'd love to use Patrick and/or Caruso to move Vuc's bad deal and get a decent draft pick or rookie scale prospect in return. As far as I'm concerned this team now is Coby and Zach and a bunch of irrelevant parts. And I have no desire to just punt on multiple season in a row waiting for some draft miracle. I want to at least be a play-in team next year but with a younger, higher upside roster and more salary flexibility. If we play our cards right we could have huge cap space in summer 25 along with Coby and Zach.

TBF, if the Pistons want him on a buy-low, they could still do it… waive the physical. Not like having him help win games was gonna benefit their top-4 pick run. It’s just … the low is gonna be really low. (Joe Harris and Burks!)

But I think was Zach’s way of saying “I don’t want to go to a last place team with kids.” Quite obvious.

Well, now you just start ticking off the next worst-case scenarios: can’t trade Lavine, resign and overpay Demar to 1-2y more than he’s worth, and maybe we resign and overpay Caruso, who is injury prone and not an ideal fit next in an undersized rotation.

I've been lobbying to trade this dude for such a long time.

And this is most of the reason why I said we needed to trade him immediately after his peak season.

I think at this point you just revert back to the plan of building around Coby and Lavine and then pivot in the Fall if it doesn't work.

Guru wrote:I think at this point you just revert back to the plan of building around Coby and Lavine and then pivot in the Fall if it doesn't work.

Are you kidding? Lol - what more do you need to see it doesn't work? No one in the Bulls is building around LaVine anymore. Him and Lonzo are baggage until they're off the roster. At this point the Bulls would be lucky to dump him for expiring contracts.

Guru wrote:I think at this point you just revert back to the plan of building around Coby and Lavine and then pivot in the Fall if it doesn't work.

Uhhh in case you weren't paying attention the last 2 years, that ship has sailed.

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One final thought on Zach having surgery just to avoid the trade:

He could accomplish the same thing by having his agent call the Pistons and say "hey, just so you know, Zach's considering season ending surgery, here's his updated medicals, and if you were to trade for him, given you won't make the playoffs, he would definitely do that" and accomplish the same thing without having a surgery or breaking a rule.

He doesn't need to actually have a surgery to scare off Detroit.

MrSparkle wrote:

Guru wrote:I think at this point you just revert back to the plan of building around Coby and Lavine and then pivot in the Fall if it doesn't work.

Are you kidding? Lol - what more do you need to see it doesn't work? No one in the Bulls is building around LaVine anymore. Him and Lonzo are baggage until they're off the roster. At this point the Bulls would be lucky to dump him for expiring contracts.

The Bulls are definitely building around/with Lavine until/unless they trade him, which is now probably a year away at earliest. He makes an enormous salary and put up great numbers before his 25 games of relatively poor play this season. He was very good after the deadline last year. He will be penciled in as the starting SG making his huge bucks and playing 35 mpg and taking lots of shots indefinitely now. They will and should do everything they can to make it work with him going into next year.

After deadline, he was good while facing some tanking teams, weak competition. Come on bro. He's a mediocre player being paid a lot of money

aguifs wrote:After deadline, he was good while facing some tanking teams, weak competition. Come on bro. He's a mediocre player being paid a lot of money

Zach may or may not be a mediocre player, but he's definitely not a mediocre talent and his contract, talent and injury status all combine to ensure that he'll be our starting SG next year and indefinitely. There is virtually zero chance that he is traded until at least 10 to 12 months from now and that is only if he increases his value. There is zero chance that he will be benched to start next season. And that means we will not be acquiring someone that has to play his position because we essentially have to bet on him turning things around. It's not about how likely it is or isn't that that will work. That is what will happen and what should happen as sad as it is.

Santa is coming as well.

He's done in Chicago.

Well. ****.

aguifs wrote:Santa is coming as well.

He's done in Chicago.

I'd bet a lot of money that he starts the season with us next year. Nobody is going to want his deal until he shows he can play at a high level again.

He will pull a James Harden move. He's done bro

League Circles wrote:

MrSparkle wrote:

Guru wrote:I think at this point you just revert back to the plan of building around Coby and Lavine and then pivot in the Fall if it doesn't work.

Are you kidding? Lol - what more do you need to see it doesn't work? No one in the Bulls is building around LaVine anymore. Him and Lonzo are baggage until they're off the roster. At this point the Bulls would be lucky to dump him for expiring contracts.

The Bulls are definitely building around/with Lavine until/unless they trade him, which is now probably a year away at earliest. He makes an enormous salary and put up great numbers before his 25 games of relatively poor play this season. He was very good after the deadline last year. He will be penciled in as the starting SG making his huge bucks and playing 35 mpg and taking lots of shots indefinitely now. They will and should do everything they can to make it work with him going into next year.

I agree that he'll play and the Bulls will showcase him, but I don't think they're building the team with him going forward. Maybe they'll have no choice, but hopefully in a year they'll have better options.

aguifs wrote:He will pull a James Harden move. He's done bro

If he sits out the Bulls will almost certainly just stop paying him. It's not at all the same situation as Harden.

Dan Z wrote:

League Circles wrote:

MrSparkle wrote:
Are you kidding? Lol - what more do you need to see it doesn't work? No one in the Bulls is building around LaVine anymore. Him and Lonzo are baggage until they're off the roster. At this point the Bulls would be lucky to dump him for expiring contracts.

The Bulls are definitely building around/with Lavine until/unless they trade him, which is now probably a year away at earliest. He makes an enormous salary and put up great numbers before his 25 games of relatively poor play this season. He was very good after the deadline last year. He will be penciled in as the starting SG making his huge bucks and playing 35 mpg and taking lots of shots indefinitely now. They will and should do everything they can to make it work with him going into next year.

I agree that he'll play and the Bulls will showcase him, but I don't think they're building the team with him going forward. Maybe they'll have no choice, but hopefully in a year they'll have better options.

Like all players in his salary/talent range, he will be a featured player until and unless someone makes an actual good trade offer for him, which there is no sign of on the horizon.