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Time to get real on Pat's next contract

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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#301 » by dougthonus » Sat Jan 27, 2024 9:52 pm

MikeDC wrote:I wouldnt either, but they’re shopping around looking at Miles Bridges who will be a UFA and has a ton of baggage that Pat doesnt. Also, a sensible team in their position would have no interest in Zach.

But theyre not in that position because they do what makes sense.


Sure, but the explicit rumors on Zach are they wouldn't give up any of those guys. Hard to see them wanting to give one up for Pat if they wouldn't for Zach.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#302 » by MikeDC » Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:00 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MikeDC wrote:I wouldnt either, but they’re shopping around looking at Miles Bridges who will be a UFA and has a ton of baggage that Pat doesnt. Also, a sensible team in their position would have no interest in Zach.

But theyre not in that position because they do what makes sense.


Sure, but the explicit rumors on Zach are they wouldn't give up any of those guys. Hard to see them wanting to give one up for Pat if they wouldn't for Zach.


Why not? I think lots of teams would give up something for Pat that they wouldnt give up for Zach. Various rumors have said as much.

Zach is more productive but much older and more expensive. You trade for him because you dont have anything else to do with the money.

Pat is different. You’re getting a guy who’s still a prospect. Maybe they figure Pat is two years ahead of Ausar Thompson and they cant afford to wait. Again, I agree that I wouldnt, but thats the sort of deal that teams make sometimes. Id at least consider it if i had some good feedback from Pat’s agent about what it would take to keep him.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#303 » by dougthonus » Sat Jan 27, 2024 10:15 pm

MikeDC wrote:Why not? I think lots of teams would give up something for Pat that they wouldnt give up for Zach. Various rumors have said as much.

Zach is more productive but much older and more expensive. You trade for him because you dont have anything else to do with the money.

Pat is different. You’re getting a guy who’s still a prospect. Maybe they figure Pat is two years ahead of Ausar Thompson and they cant afford to wait. Again, I agree that I wouldnt, but thats the sort of deal that teams make sometimes. Id at least consider it if i had some good feedback from Pat’s agent about what it would take to keep him.


:dontknow:

Pat's was probably a worse prospect than all those guys out coming into the league, still hasn't really shown all that much except low rung starter upside and no meaningful skill development, and has the worst contract situation. Detroit is the antithesis of a team with time pressure.

But sure, if the Pistons are willing to swap any of those four guys for Pat, I'd be in.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#304 » by MikeDC » Sat Jan 27, 2024 11:06 pm

dougthonus wrote:
MikeDC wrote:Why not? I think lots of teams would give up something for Pat that they wouldnt give up for Zach. Various rumors have said as much.

Zach is more productive but much older and more expensive. You trade for him because you dont have anything else to do with the money.

Pat is different. You’re getting a guy who’s still a prospect. Maybe they figure Pat is two years ahead of Ausar Thompson and they cant afford to wait. Again, I agree that I wouldnt, but thats the sort of deal that teams make sometimes. Id at least consider it if i had some good feedback from Pat’s agent about what it would take to keep him.


:dontknow:

Pat's was probably a worse prospect than all those guys out coming into the league, still hasn't really shown all that much except low rung starter upside and no meaningful skill development, and has the worst contract situation. Detroit is the antithesis of a team with time pressure.

But sure, if the Pistons are willing to swap any of those four guys for Pat, I'd be in.


I'm not a huge Pat guy, but I think you're underselling him a bit. Forwards who've demonstrated they are good defensively and can shoot the 3 are still a pretty rare commodity. He might be a low level starter, but he's a guy who's going to play a significant role on any team he's on. You can plug him onto any team and he'd play.

Ausar is shooting 15% from 3. That makes him unplayable on a serious team. His shot is totally broken. Even if it improves to "passable" there's no path forward to him and Cade (who's a bad shooter) playing together with Duren. That's three dudes who flat out can't shoot as the blueprint for their team of the future?

Ivey is a 6'4" SG who can't shoot. Unlike Ausar, he's not an elite athlete. He's not really a PG. Put all that together and he's a guy that could very well not turn out at all.

I think the Pistons actually do have time pressure or they wouldn't be considering Zach. But beyond that, they need to consider what exactly they're trying to build.

Right now, they've assembled some talented prospects who, beyond everything else you might say about them, it's hard to see how they EVER fit together.

Cade (34%)
Ivey (32%)
Ausar (15%)
Stewart (38%)
Duren (0%)

Stewart, who they'd be giving up, if I they trade for Zach is literally their only guy who's in any way OK for his position. Out of their young guys (aside from Sasser, who I guess they see as a backup) they have nothing that projects to a coherent NBA lineup because none of these guys can shoot.

Pat doesn't shoot enough, but he's raising his volume ever so slowly and shooting the ball well. He would literally be their best shooter if they traded for him, and it's not really close.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#305 » by FriedRise » Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:32 pm

Read on Twitter


A bone what now.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#306 » by Indomitable » Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:36 pm

Swollen foot
:banghead:
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#307 » by MikeDC » Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:39 pm

FriedRise wrote:
Read on Twitter


A bone what now.


Holy ****
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24622-bone-marrow-edema
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#308 » by FriedRise » Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:52 pm

MikeDC wrote:
FriedRise wrote:
Read on Twitter


A bone what now.


Holy ****
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24622-bone-marrow-edema


Symptoms often go away in four to 12 months. But sometimes bone marrow edema can last for two years or more.


...
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#309 » by Ice Man » Tue Jan 30, 2024 4:06 pm

Oh man. I'm feeling for Pat right now, bigtime.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#310 » by coldfish » Tue Jan 30, 2024 4:21 pm

MikeDC wrote:
FriedRise wrote:
Read on Twitter


A bone what now.


Holy ****
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24622-bone-marrow-edema


Wow. He might be done for the year.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#311 » by Wingy » Tue Jan 30, 2024 5:06 pm

Perhaps overly dramatic, but it seems like The Curse of the GOAT continues.

You know how the old saying goes…

Dumb, shortsighted organizations completely lucked into championships.

Really sucks. Get well, Pat.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#312 » by DuckIII » Tue Jan 30, 2024 5:11 pm

If he's out for the rest of the season it certainly sucks for Pat, but it would likely be good for the organization with regard to this contract. In that scenario the Bulls could get him at a discount or he'll just play out his rookie deal and become unrestricted.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#313 » by MrSparkle » Tue Jan 30, 2024 5:19 pm

Well, if we needed a nail in the “#4 pick” coffin, this was it. The pick was officially inconsequential (if not, detrimental) to any Bulls success the past 4 seasons.

If he comes back, he’ll be set back by this injury. We all want an explosive, athletic Pat, and that’s not what we’ll get with a hurt foot. Frankly, you just hope for him it’s not a more serious issue, as the Lonzo PTSD is fresh and present (not past).

I haven’t even thought about Javonte, but what a loss he was too? Very energetic, improving prime role-player on a penny deal, with no NBA career after some mystery ailment.

I don’t know what it is about this team, but fwiw, our neighbors Indy (Granger, George, Oladipo) went through it with 3 elite players in their peaks and primes, so it’s not all that unique to Chicago. Does feel like absurd setback after setback, especially considering Lauri, Wendell and Coby missed 50% of their seasons too in crucial developmental years.

Not that there’s a bright side, but Pat was probably sticking around past the deadline anyway… maybe this forces the Bulls to address their front-court. Or maybe not.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#314 » by Ice Man » Tue Jan 30, 2024 5:26 pm

coldfish wrote:Wow. He might be done for the year.


I have skimmed through several website articles on this affliction, and the shortest time frame that is ever mentioned for a recovery is 3 months. The general language is 3 to 9 months, sometimes longer.

So yeah.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#315 » by panthermark » Tue Jan 30, 2024 6:07 pm

Wow, that sucks for Pat. I'm assuming that is season ending. 213 games played in his career. QO?
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#316 » by greenwing » Tue Jan 30, 2024 6:21 pm

Unfortunate for Pat - especially considering his play while starting with Lavine and Vuc out. If he's out for the season he'll be lucky if he gets MLE-type money for his next contract. A 10-4 guy with a PER of 11 would basically be paid for potential, not production. I'd assume he'd have to take the QO if he's not happy with an MLE offer.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#317 » by GoBlue72391 » Tue Jan 30, 2024 8:01 pm

Hmm, that edema thing sounds sketchy as hell. Giving me Lonzo vibes in terms of unknown timeline and the rather bizarre and unusual nature of the injury.

If this is an injury that could affect him for years, what do we do with his extension? We can't commit even more money to yet another player with a years long mystery injury, if that indeed turns out to be the case.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#318 » by dougthonus » Tue Jan 30, 2024 9:46 pm

DuckIII wrote:If he's out for the rest of the season it certainly sucks for Pat, but it would likely be good for the organization with regard to this contract. In that scenario the Bulls could get him at a discount or he'll just play out his rookie deal and become unrestricted.


It's a big risk for both sides if he's out for the rest of the year, would be real interesting to see how that negotiation would go. Sucks for Pat to have a major injury like this in the midst of his contract year, probably costs him tons of money or makes him take on tons of risk (take the QO and try to prove it and try again as a UFA).
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#319 » by MikeDC » Tue Jan 30, 2024 11:52 pm

dougthonus wrote:
DuckIII wrote:If he's out for the rest of the season it certainly sucks for Pat, but it would likely be good for the organization with regard to this contract. In that scenario the Bulls could get him at a discount or he'll just play out his rookie deal and become unrestricted.


It's a big risk for both sides if he's out for the rest of the year, would be real interesting to see how that negotiation would go. Sucks for Pat to have a major injury like this in the midst of his contract year, probably costs him tons of money or makes him take on tons of risk (take the QO and try to prove it and try again as a UFA).


Right... a guy with a season ending injury is a huge risk for everyone. Lonzo Ball's contract is terrible. Maybe he took a discount at the time he signed it from whatever he would have taken if he was healthy, but it's still a bad outcome for the Bulls.

Actually, it's a good outcome for Lonzo though, because he's getting his entire contract paid out to him.
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Re: Time to get real on Pat's next contract 

Post#320 » by FriedRise » Wed Jan 31, 2024 12:10 am

Yeah tricky situation for the Bulls if this is a season-ending injury. The only way I’d re-sign him is if it’s on a very, very team friendly contract.

If let’s say the Pistons (who likely will have a hard time attracting free agents but have a ton of cap space) offer him 4/80M - basically Lonzo money - we might just have to let him walk. Can’t have TWO of those kinds of contracts on the books.

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