PG: TNT Bulls are back?

[weneeda2guard]

While Bulls wins are nice, the tragic reality is that this season is probably a lost cause. The team still struggles with division opponents (3-6). Even if they get hot, the best they can imagine being is out of the Play In. So what's the use?

Main thing would be to try to salvage what you can and just get whatever return you can to get some players to compliment Coby and PW. Let them grow and then make a run. Big thing is to dump the heavy salary to guys who have no heart. Get what you can and just move forward.

You can't just "dump" guys

Contrary to what some may believe it's not exactly a ton of expiring contracts floating all over the place. You start to "dump" guys you add other salary with what could possibly be worst players. And since your dumping your not getting great draft compensation. At best you would just be trading our problems for another teams problem and for what? Just to say you did something? Nothing gives the impression that lavine nor derozan, are somehow cancers to the team especially derozan who everyone here loves as a teammate.

I don't mind trades I just want them to make sense and seriously improve us. I never want to settle into a idea that we have to just move guys for the sake of moving them. Other teams would love this but it does no good for us in the long term.

[RSP83]

The person is clearly not Billy but one of the other coaching staff.

This is still disrespectful even if it’s an assistant coach. Zach did the same sht with Jim Boylen, thinks he’s above everyone.

If Zach was playing better I would totally forgive some of his attitude problems but he really has no right to act like this when he is playing the way he is.

I really wanted Zach to work when he returned. First few games I thought he's serious about it and trying to assert himself slowly within team concept. But it becomes clearer that he's just settling on becoming a role player right now.

Although, to be fair, it's not easy to try to play his game while trying to keep things balance with Vuc, Demar, and Coby. We really need only one between Demar and Zach. Ideally it should be Zach over Demar, but that's not what is happening.

Looking back, I think the Lonzo injury immediately have impact on Demar and Zach's co-existence effectiveness. Lonzo was such a perfect player to pair with Demar and Zach (with most NBA player really). Coby do not have the same effect on Demar and Zach. Because Coby's archetype as a player is actually much closer to Demar and Zach. So now we have 3 guys with the same/similar archetype.

Demar is a very good player, and more advanced than Zach, but he's also the reason other than Lonzo's injury why Zach has not been as effective as he should. AKME is accountable for that. If AKME have chosen Demar that he wants to stick with he should have traded Zach during his contract year before the deadline. At least we would've gotten some good future assets as while Zach's value was at an all-time high.

[Ccwatercraft]

While Bulls wins are nice, the tragic reality is that this season is probably a lost cause. The team still struggles with division opponents (3-6). Even if they get hot, the best they can imagine being is out of the Play In. So what's the use?

Main thing would be to try to salvage what you can and just get whatever return you can to get some players to compliment Coby and PW. Let them grow and then make a run. Big thing is to dump the heavy salary to guys who have no heart. Get what you can and just move forward.

You can't just "dump" guys

Contrary to what some may believe it's not exactly a ton of expiring contracts floating all over the place. You start to "dump" guys you add other salary with what could possibly be worst players. And since your dumping your not getting great draft compensation. At best you would just be trading our problems for another teams problem and for what? Just to say you did something? Nothing gives the impression that lavine nor derozan, are somehow cancers to the team especially derozan who everyone here loves as a teammate.

I don't mind trades I just want them to make sense and seriously improve us. I never want to settle into a idea that we have to just move guys for the sake of moving them. Other teams would love this but it does no good for us in the long term.

Makes sense to me, personally I don't want a small handful of bleh draft picks, im selfish and want to see competitive games not execute some granf ling term process. I'd rather use these hefty salaries of ours to go for improvements, win now or win soon types. I have no choice but to accept whatever they do anyway and I'm ok with that, I've watched worse basketball than this team and AK has forgotten more about basketball than I'll ever know.

Tldr... no rrasonto "dump" but we need a friggen good .bsckup PF and we've been needing one forever and a day and it's a bit annoying

[greenwing]

That was a fun game and a quality win. I'm starting to come around on Vuc. He's not a great player, but he's sure a lot better than how he's treated on this board.

Been saying this for awhile. The Vuc hate on this board is odd. Vuc is top ten for his position in points per game and rebounds per game and is top five in assists per game despite the 5-14 start to the season where everyone's numbers suffered. But because he's not a two way player and we don't have the right complementary piece next to him at power foward, people have been making the incorrect claim that he's massively overpaid. He's not.

Vuc is actually pretty mediocre, he can't defend, is highly inefficient despite being a big and is declining.

What good is a .510 TS with bad defense center?

Cherry-picking his TOS from this season isn’t exactly fair. Caruso is literally the only main rotation player whose TS% is significantly up this year. Coby White has seen a slight bump but everyone else is big time down because the entire team has been down due to the 5-14 start. Vuc’s TS% was .594 last season.

Also, his defense being poor is way overblown. The Bulls have zero capable power forwards on the roster and despite a poor start are 15th in defensive efficiency with his supposedly poor defense. He’s certainly no rim protector but he’s a big body and is capable of at least being playable on that side of the court. If his defense is so bad then why were the mediocre Bulls last season 5th in the NBA in defensive efficiency?

Chicago’s problem is actually on the offensive side of the ball where they are below average. They’ve played better interestingly with Lavine out because the pieces fit better. Vucevic is not the main problem here. They need a power forward. Williams is a tweener and not a true 4.

The Bulls might actually be better off trading Lavine to someone like Philly for Tobias Harris or send him out west and attempt to get a help-side defender/rebounder at the 4 to complement Vuc. The problem with having a 3-point shooting center is you need another big to go for the offensive rebounds and the Bulls just don’t have that right now.

[Dan Z]

Been saying this for awhile. The Vuc hate on this board is odd. Vuc is top ten for his position in points per game and rebounds per game and is top five in assists per game despite the 5-14 start to the season where everyone's numbers suffered. But because he's not a two way player and we don't have the right complementary piece next to him at power foward, people have been making the incorrect claim that he's massively overpaid. He's not.

Vuc is actually pretty mediocre, he can't defend, is highly inefficient despite being a big and is declining.

What good is a .510 TS with bad defense center?

Cherry-picking his TOS from this season isn’t exactly fair. Caruso is literally the only main rotation player whose TS% is significantly up this year. Coby White has seen a slight bump but everyone else is big time down because the entire team has been down due to the 5-14 start. Vuc’s TS% was .594 last season.

Also, his defense being poor is way overblown. The Bulls have zero capable power forwards on the roster and despite a poor start are 15th in defensive efficiency with his supposedly poor defense. He’s certainly no rim protector but he’s a big body and is capable of at least being playable on that side of the court. If his defense is so bad then why were the mediocre Bulls last season 5th in the NBA in defensive efficiency?

Chicago’s problem is actually on the offensive side of the ball where they are below average. They’ve played better interestingly with Lavine out because the pieces fit better. Vucevic is not the main problem here. They need a power forward. Williams is a tweener and not a true 4.

The Bulls might actually be better off trading Lavine to someone like Philly for Tobias Harris or send him out west and attempt to get a help-side defender/rebounder at the 4 to complement Vuc. The problem with having a 3-point shooting center is you need another big to go for the offensive rebounds and the Bulls just don’t have that right now.

I agree with you about the PF position, but it doesn't help that Vucevic is shooting .272 from three.

[vxmike]

That was a fun game and a quality win. I'm starting to come around on Vuc. He's not a great player, but he's sure a lot better than how he's treated on this board.

Been saying this for awhile. The Vuc hate on this board is odd. Vuc is top ten for his position in points per game and rebounds per game and is top five in assists per game despite the 5-14 start to the season where everyone's numbers suffered. But because he's not a two way player and we don't have the right complementary piece next to him at power foward, people have been making the incorrect claim that he's massively overpaid. He's not.

This. Vuc is the definition of an average starting Center. He’s isn’t a star but not garbage. He’s an average starter on an average starter contract.

[vxmike]

DeRozan is still a lethal halfcourt scorer. There’s got to be a contender who wants his services. He’s the best player on the Bulls, but he really should’nt be a #1 option at this stage of his career.

[Indomitable]

I heard Zach scratched his butt when we were down by 2 in the 4th. Clearly he hates Michael Jordan, Chicago, and the spirit of Taj Gibson. I also blame him for the arctic storm.

Pretty much. It is getting ridiculous.

[Wingy]

I heard Zach scratched his butt when we were down by 2 in the 4th. Clearly he hates Michael Jordan, Chicago, and the spirit of Taj Gibson. I also blame him for the arctic storm.

Pretty much. It is getting ridiculous.

I don’t know about that. I heard he also hates deep dish, polish sausage, and puppies.

[Ice Man]

Billy subbed Caruso in for Pat with 4:31 left, thereby going to the small lineup that this board detests, and the smalls promptly went on a 13-6 run to win the game.

Something to consider during the next 100 times that Billy's small ball lineup is derided.

[DuckIII]

This is the type of win that strikes fear into the hearts of Bulls fans.

[Ice Man]

On a side note, IQ was unimpressive. The guy can't get to the rim. Percentage of shots taken from 0 to 3 feet this year -

1) Coby 25%
2) IQ 10%

Because he cannot penetrate, he is not shot creator for others. Basically, he's a 3 point bomber. That's OK but a specialized role. Give me Coby, thanks much.

[DuckIII]

Billy subbed Caruso in for Pat with 4:31 left, thereby going to the small lineup that this board detests, and the smalls promptly went on a 13-6 run to win the game.

Something to consider during the next 100 times that Billy's small ball lineup is derided.

I have to admit, since Pat got hurt I haven’t watched a game (including skipping a couple of the games he still limped around in after he was clearly already hurt but they kept stupidly playing him), so it’s been awhile. My interest in this treading water team is so threadbare at this point that literally the only thing left that I find interesting and thought provoking about watching the games is seeing how Pat plays in different circumstances and with different lineups to further evaluate his potential as a future Bull or one to trade now before his contract extension kicks in.

I’m 50. The first Bulls game I ever watched was when Jordan dropped 63 on the Celtics. AKME have finally done it. They’ve made a team whose floor and ceiling are so easily identifiable as meaningless, and laden with veteran players and uninspiring youth, that for the first time in almost 40 years as a fan, I’m only watching because of one player.

And I didn’t watch last night either which is my extremely long way of getting to a very short point: why would anyone get upset about a big or small lineup as a general proposition? The wisdom of using one is highly contextual. Last night it perhaps it was a great time to go small. Other times it’s not.

The issue is less BD using small lineups, but BD having a roster in which there aren’t enough combinations to adequately adapt to these changing contexts. Going small represents most of his options, really.

Which brings me back to the floor and ceiling. Some of you get all excited about being 15-10 since the awful start as though it’s indicative of potential post season success. It’s not.

Of teams with a chance to reach the playoffs, you won’t find many rosters less poorly built for sustainable postseason success than ours. We have a one dimensional roster, with limited permutations to punch/counterpunch through a series of games against the same team. We will not be able to adapt, we will get outsized, we will get out 3-Balled, and we will lose and lose early.

Outside of the contemporaneous moments of joy watching a regular season win, this team has nothing to offer in the bigger picture. It is old, going nowhere, and boring.

I’ll keep Pat-watching, but otherwise AKME have completely lost me.

How’s that for a post-game message after a win?

[Guru]

That was a fun game and a quality win. I'm starting to come around on Vuc. He's not a great player, but he's sure a lot better than how he's treated on this board.

Been saying this for awhile. The Vuc hate on this board is odd. Vuc is top ten for his position in points per game and rebounds per game and is top five in assists per game despite the 5-14 start to the season where everyone's numbers suffered. But because he's not a two way player and we don't have the right complementary piece next to him at power foward, people have been making the incorrect claim that he's massively overpaid. He's not.

Vuc is actually pretty mediocre, he can't defend, is highly inefficient despite being a big and is declining.

What good is a .510 TS with bad defense center?

Are we really pretending Vuc isn't a net positive after watching that game?

[Guru]

That was a fun game and a quality win. I'm starting to come around on Vuc. He's not a great player, but he's sure a lot better than how he's treated on this board.

Been saying this for awhile. The Vuc hate on this board is odd. Vuc is top ten for his position in points per game and rebounds per game and is top five in assists per game despite the 5-14 start to the season where everyone's numbers suffered. But because he's not a two way player and we don't have the right complementary piece next to him at power foward, people have been making the incorrect claim that he's massively overpaid. He's not.

This. Vuc is the definition of an average starting Center. He’s isn’t a star but not garbage. He’s an average starter on an average starter contract.

He's a great starter on a good team. We don't have the pieces at PF to make him great and hide his limitations.

I think he'd be great on a team like the Warriors.

[TheSuzerain]

Was one game, but Jontay Porter seems like a better prospect than both of our Terry's. Wish we kept him.

[Ice Man]

Outside of the contemporaneous moments of joy watching a regular season win, this team has nothing to offer in the bigger picture. It is old, going nowhere, and boring.

I’ll keep Pat-watching, but otherwise AKME have completely lost me.

How’s that for a post-game message after a win?

All true, but I did watch last night and the team on the evening did play well. Plus, we might be blase, but they are not. The guys truly do care, you could see their excitement when they pulled out the win. That's infectious.

So yes, they have no hope, but to give the players credit, they don't seem to recognize that.

As for Pat, he has throughly and completely settled into his 3&D role. He would be a fine omplementary piece on a contender (outright excellent if he could rebound). Is defending very well and on offense he knows how and when to stay out of the way. PJ Tucker.

[League Circles]

Billy subbed Caruso in for Pat with 4:31 left, thereby going to the small lineup that this board detests, and the smalls promptly went on a 13-6 run to win the game.

Something to consider during the next 100 times that Billy's small ball lineup is derided.

I have to admit, since Pat got hurt I haven’t watched a game (including skipping a couple of the games he still limped around in after he was clearly already hurt but they kept stupidly playing him), so it’s been awhile. My interest in this treading water team is so threadbare at this point that literally the only thing left that I find interesting and thought provoking about watching the games is seeing how Pat plays in different circumstances and with different lineups to further evaluate his potential as a future Bull or one to trade now before his contract extension kicks in.

I’m 50. The first Bulls game I ever watched was when Jordan dropped 63 on the Celtics. AKME have finally done it. They’ve made a team whose floor and ceiling are so easily identifiable as meaningless, and laden with veteran players and uninspiring youth, that for the first time in almost 40 years as a fan, I’m only watching because of one player.

And I didn’t watch last night either which is my extremely long way of getting to a very short point: why would anyone get upset about a big or small lineup as a general proposition? The wisdom of using one is highly contextual. Last night it perhaps it was a great time to go small. Other times it’s not.

The issue is less BD using small lineups, but BD having a roster in which there aren’t enough combinations to adequately adapt to these changing contexts. Going small represents most of his options, really.

Which brings me back to the floor and ceiling. Some of you get all excited about being 15-10 since the awful start as though it’s indicative of potential post season success. It’s not.

Of teams with a chance to reach the playoffs, you won’t find many rosters less poorly built for sustainable postseason success than ours. We have a one dimensional roster, with limited permutations to punch/counterpunch through a series of games against the same team. We will not be able to adapt, we will get outsized, we will get out 3-Balled, and we will lose and lose early.

Outside of the contemporaneous moments of joy watching a regular season win, this team has nothing to offer in the bigger picture. It is old, going nowhere, and boring.

I’ll keep Pat-watching, but otherwise AKME have completely lost me.

How’s that for a post-game message after a win?

I'm also losing interest in a huge way and am not currently watching games. But it's hard for me to wrap my head around your interest of Pat over Coby. Coby is currently our best player and the best building block we've had since MVP Derrick Rose 13 years ago due to his huge value contract. Because of the contract, Coby is an even better building block than prime Bulls Jimmy Butler was. Most of everything else is crap, but we've got a good 23 year old two way lead guard without big holes in his game who is on a contract paying him tens of millions less than he's showing he's worth on the court. That's actually huge.

[Wingy]

The issue is less BD using small lineups, but BD having a roster in which there aren’t enough combinations to adequately adapt to these changing contexts. Going small represents most of his options, really.

Well, I mostly think he’s on board with the small roster, but the complaints come because he does have at least one option he chooses not to use in situations where going small isn’t necessarily advantageous. The option is the one guy that interests you.

You know I’m a Pat skeptic, but I want the kid to do well and have every last chance to develop here before we have to make a decision. He should be in the damn game a lot of times. But we must go small.

[Red8911]

Billy subbed Caruso in for Pat with 4:31 left, thereby going to the small lineup that this board detests, and the smalls promptly went on a 13-6 run to win the game.

Something to consider during the next 100 times that Billy's small ball lineup is derided.

Toronto was small too, Barnes was the center.