Bears 2024 2.0

[_txchilibowl_]

If we trade Fields I'd be quite happy if we could do Fields for Bijan straight up. Seems like a pretty good 1 for 1 deal for both teams.

ATL would laugh us off the phone if I’m being completely honest.

RBs have very little value, trade or not. Bears would laugh at Fields for Bijan.

So little value that they used the 8th pick to draft him just last year? That doesn't add up.

[Betta Bulleavit]

If we trade Fields I'd be quite happy if we could do Fields for Bijan straight up. Seems like a pretty good 1 for 1 deal for both teams.

ATL would laugh us off the phone if I’m being completely honest.

RBs have very little value, trade or not. Bears would laugh at Fields for Bijan.

In general, you’re right. RBs aren’t a valuable as other positions. However, this is the one situation where the RB has more value because he’s young and isn’t due to get paid more anytime soon. So from a trade standpoint, Bijan is every bit as valuable as Fields and more so once you consider that they’d have to pay Fields. So, no…ATL isn’t doing that. And I’m a Fields fan.

[biggestbullsfan]

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This is pretty wild…

[heir_jordan22]

Pocket time (time spent in pocket between the snap and the throw/pressure in the pocket) was 2.4 seconds for Murray, 2.5 for Mahomes, FWIW. Those are typical and unremarkable numbers from what I understand. Quality of O-line probably factors in. Anyway.



I agree with that to an extent if you’re talking about the ball release from the hand. Kyler’s seems slower to me than Mahomes and Caleb. Calebs looks pretty quick. And the way I heard it, shorter quarterbacks will often buy a better read of the field by getting further away from the of scrimmage.

Digging into this too deeply, It’s in the eye of the beholder perhaps.

Mahomes throws backhand passes, underhand tosses, random flicks, passes with has off hand - all kinds of nonsense that is unacceptable, except he completes those at an uncanny rate. Nobody else does that. Nobody else can throw a 50 yard bomb with a true flick of the wrist when defenders make contact with their arm. We haven't seen it. Not with Caleb Williams, not with Kyler Murray, not with Zach Wilson.

Those passes looked a lot better when he had Tyreek Hill and some of the other receivers he's had there in years past. He only managed 17 pts v. BAL, and was only 6th in the league in yards this year, and 14th in QBR. I'm not saying he's not amazing, but he's looked a lot more human this year without such great receivers.

I agree. Obviously Mahomes is one of the greatest QBs ever already. But he was setup for success by having one of the greatest offensive minds teaching him, and he's been throwing to one of the greatest TEs of all time, and he had the best WR. All young QBs suck when they're setup for failure early. I just want to see this franchise actually build a an organization that can sustain success. Williams could be the next most talented guy, but if we draft him and don't build properly then he'll suck here too.

[TheGOATRises007]

Draft Caleb (No independent knowledge, but basically every scout/FO type I read from says the same - he's far and away the best QB prospect in a while. "Generational" is hard to use in general, but better than any of the QBs in the past few years and I've seen things saying as a prospect on the level of Manning/Luck when they came out and better than Burrow.

In my dream world, Daniels underwhelms and you can package 9+Fields to move up to 3, I'd even throw in say the Bears #2 next year. Pair Harrison w Caleb. Otherwise, deal Justin to Atlanta for a 2+3 and draft one of Nabers/Odunze/Bowers.

With the Atl 2, and 2 3d round picks, I focus on OT, C, DE. Depth at CB, S, LB in later rounds.

FA I also grab a C. Resign Jaylon. Sign a S or rework EJax's deal. Cut Patrick/Whitehair. If you can do it at a decent price, resign Mooney

DJ-Odunze/Bowers-Mooney-Scott-Kmet, Roschon/Herbert at RB, Caleb at QB.
OL of say Braxton-Teven-Rookie/FA-Davis/Rookie-Wright.

DL of Sweat-Dexter-Billings-Walker with Jones/Pickens/rookie in rotation.
LB's stay Edwards-Edmunds-Sanborn
DBs of Jaylon-Tyrique-Kyler-Brisker-EJax/FA

All doable and should be a playoff team with a solid OC which it seems like they have.

Any links to this?

[TheGOATRises007]

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This is pretty wild…

Would be funny since the org passed up on Mahomes to then finally draft a better version of him

I think people should pump the brakes on Mahomes comparisons. Up to age 28 for NFL quarterbacks, he's got the best resume of all-time. If you can get half that resume with Williams, we should be ecstatic.

[NecessaryEvil]

That account never lists sources, it just says stuff. I wouldn’t go by that.

[nomorezorro]

yeah that is 100% made up and i am begging everyone to realize that "nfl notifications" on twitter dot com is not a legitimate source of news

[Bulls69]

Oof

Sorry you don't see it yet. Give it some time.

I watched 3 full games of his this past season to get a better idea beyond “expert” takes and highlight reels. His “cannon” is overrated, arm strength isn’t bad but isn’t anything special. I see the frame and some of the tools, but the talent doesn’t jump off the screen like with some players. Nothing wowed me, his accuracy was mediocre, and even his deep balls, which are supposedly a strength, were under thrown where the receiver made an adjustment to complete the pass.

I see some potential as a prospect and he is young with room to improve, but do not see his ceiling as being elite in the league. And if I’m drafting a guy with a top 3 pick, that’s the bar… average to decent starter is not a win.

I have seen several of Drake Mays games I have never been a big fan of his game .

[NecessaryEvil]

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[fleet]

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This is pretty wild…

I don’t trust this website. OTOH I have read anonymous comments referencing scouts that said “A more refined Mahomes” “Mahomes with a better arm”

Those are incredible comments. Was it this website? Take it with a grain of salt..

[NesimLE]

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This is pretty wild…

I don’t trust this website. OTOH I have read anonymous comments referencing scouts that said “A more refined Mahomes” “Mahomes with a better arm”


Those are incredible comments. Was it this website? Take it with a grain of salt.

With scouts that have takes like that, it's not quite as surprising that 1st round QBs get overdrafted and bust half the time...could you imagine if someone said a prospect was "Michael Jordan with better body control" or "Magic with better vision?" No one would take that guy seriously, but NFL scouts/pundits get away with it apparently lol

[fleet]

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This is pretty wild…

I don’t trust this website. OTOH I have read anonymous comments referencing scouts that said “A more refined Mahomes” “Mahomes with a better arm”


Those are incredible comments. Was it this website? Take it with a grain of salt.

With scouts that have takes like that, it's not quite as surprising that 1st round QBs get overdrafted and bust half the time...could you imagine if someone said a prospect was "Michael Jordan with better body control" or "Magic with better vision?" No one would take that guy seriously, but NFL scouts/pundits get away with it apparently lol

They can’t make those comments compared to the NFL Mahomes. I would think the context was missing, if the comments are even real. As a prospect comparison at best

[heir_jordan22]

I don’t trust this website. OTOH I have read anonymous comments referencing scouts that said “A more refined Mahomes” “Mahomes with a better arm”


Those are incredible comments. Was it this website? Take it with a grain of salt.

With scouts that have takes like that, it's not quite as surprising that 1st round QBs get overdrafted and bust half the time...could you imagine if someone said a prospect was "Michael Jordan with better body control" or "Magic with better vision?" No one would take that guy seriously, but NFL scouts/pundits get away with it apparently lol

They can’t make those comments compared to the NFL Mahomes. I would think the context was missing, if the comments are even real. As a prospect comparison at best

Calling back to an earlier exchange, I think if you're comparing recent prospects, then the Williams to Murray comparison is by far the most complete comparison. They played under the same coach, in the same system, with similar playing styles and attributes. The only major difference is their height and Williams' strength. Murray was highly regarded. People were saying he would be a perfect prospect if he wasn't 5'10" with short arms and a small frame. He was a much more highly touted prospect than Mahomes. In this regard, I think Williams is an amazing prospect. I do not think he will step in and have a CJ Stroud year, unless he has a good group of weapons around him, given his issues with hitting open receivers early.

[Peelboy]

Draft Caleb (No independent knowledge, but basically every scout/FO type I read from says the same - he's far and away the best QB prospect in a while. "Generational" is hard to use in general, but better than any of the QBs in the past few years and I've seen things saying as a prospect on the level of Manning/Luck when they came out and better than Burrow.

In my dream world, Daniels underwhelms and you can package 9+Fields to move up to 3, I'd even throw in say the Bears #2 next year. Pair Harrison w Caleb. Otherwise, deal Justin to Atlanta for a 2+3 and draft one of Nabers/Odunze/Bowers.

With the Atl 2, and 2 3d round picks, I focus on OT, C, DE. Depth at CB, S, LB in later rounds.

FA I also grab a C. Resign Jaylon. Sign a S or rework EJax's deal. Cut Patrick/Whitehair. If you can do it at a decent price, resign Mooney

DJ-Odunze/Bowers-Mooney-Scott-Kmet, Roschon/Herbert at RB, Caleb at QB.
OL of say Braxton-Teven-Rookie/FA-Davis/Rookie-Wright.

DL of Sweat-Dexter-Billings-Walker with Jones/Pickens/rookie in rotation.
LB's stay Edwards-Edmunds-Sanborn
DBs of Jaylon-Tyrique-Kyler-Brisker-EJax/FA

All doable and should be a playoff team with a solid OC which it seems like they have.

Any links to this?

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I can't vouch for any of those, but I see a lot more of those kinds of comments from FO/scout types than I do concerns about being a bust. Even if he's not at that level, just a top 5-10 QB in the league, that's huge for the Bears. I love Fields and think that the Bears completely mismanaged him, but that's where we are. He may well end up a very good QB, but at this point that's at least as much of a question mark as Caleb seems to be and actually seems a bigger question mark, plus the upside of Caleb seems a lot higher (and the resetting the contract clock thing, although that's partially offset by the pick haul you'd get from trading the #1).

I'd love to see Marv on the Bears, and most of the year I was rooting for Marv+Fields. But Justin just didn't do enough and Caleb seems to be that good a prospect.

[patryk7754]

I don't think a Gm saying that he'd draft Williams over Elway, Manning, or Burrow is an example of just how great Williams is but how people tend to overhype prospects. Those three were clearly better prospects than Williams. But I love the Mahomes comparisons - it just means we'll get so much more when we trade the 1st pick.

[heir_jordan22]

If the Commanders are desperate to get Caleb Williams there would be some interesting possibilities. They may want to trade Howell. They have Cosmi, Allen, Payne, and McClaurin, who would all be helpfull to us.

For Bryce Young we got:
DJ Moore (approx. value of a 1st + 2nd round pick)
No. 9
No 61
2024 1st
2025 2nd
So basically two 1s and two 2s in 2023, plus a future 1 and 2.

For Williams we should get a player(s) worth a 1 and 2, a 1 and 2 this year, plus future 1 and 2. I would say that's the minimum even if we only trade one spot because Williams is a better prospect.

2, 36, 2025 1, 2026 2, G Sam Cosmi, QB Sam Howell.

[CjayC]

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If all is true then a lot of people are gonna want to be here to either coach or play with Williams. We should be pretty well off, but they really need to nail this offseason.

[heir_jordan22]

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Spielman was in charge of the decision to draft Christian Ponder with the 12th pick in 2011.
https://www.twincities.com/2022/01/10/best-worst-vikings-draft-picks-of-rick-spielmans-tenure/

The best qb they drafted during his 15 years as VP of Player Personnel and GM was Teddy Bridgewater. Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo were both picked after Bridgewater that year (marginal upgrades).

[panthermark]

It sucks, but the truth hurts. (Yes, we got called out).

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Of course, we need to find our Favre before we can go this route.