Who isn't mad at Arturas?

[Dominator83]

We're obviously closer. When they took over we were hot garbage. Demar, Caruso and Coby are all better than anyone on that team was. Ball was too when healthy, and of course Zach has improved.

If you want to play the franz wagner game we can do that all day with every team. Might as well do it with guys like Jokic, SGA etc than Franz **** Wagner.

There is absolutely zero value in going from 25 wins to 35-38. Not for the fans, and not for the team short or long term. They don't get any credit for taking a horrible team and making them borderline mediocre while hemorrhaging long term assets like WCJR, the 7th pick (since you're so hung up on it being Franz, we'll just say it's an asset) and so on and on to get to 38 wins and a play in loss yearly.

We have one path to being a good team: White or Pat turning into a superstar. The odds of that are about .5%, at best. We have no draft assets, no foundation of young players that we expect to grow together, we just have a couple young guys that were inherited from the Gar Pax era that we are praying turn into stars.

We have a below average starting center locked up on a massive overpay, our two best players, one is a malcontent that is chronically injured, the other is an aging player that will need an overpay to stay, who is suited to a style of basketball that we can't win with long term.

There's no there there! WTF. Who the hell would give AKME anything other than a D or F?

Well we've gone from 22 wins for the last 2 years of the Paxson era to probably winning 40+ for the third year in a row this year. But if changing those numbers to 25 and 35 makes you feel better, OK. There is obvious value in that. We got to see a lot more wins, and some playoff and play-in action. We even got to see a very strong team for the first half of the year when the roster was healthy.

Wendell Carter is nothing and has never been able to stay on the court, even though I was a fan. Wagner was the 8th pick and the 8th best player in a draft has never been a good long term starter.

No draft assets? We have about the same as anyone else on average. We have plenty of ways to improve into a good team. Hell we have a young star locked up on an MLE level contract for 3 years. That's what teams pray for in the high lottery. No foundation of young players? Coby, Ayo, Williams don't count?

Why will Demar need an overpay to stay?

Zach is probably our 4th best player at best (which is actually a compliment to the team). Convenient to leave out Coby and Caruso.

Coby is our only young stud. Ayo is AY-OK, and Patrick sucks. And if he's seeking more $ than what Coby got he's not even worth keeping. He really should get more like an Ayo contract.

Our draft assets are not good. We still owe a 1st, only have 1 incoming 1st that will likely never convey, and cupboard is bare on 2nds as well. There's no warchest to go out and trade for a legit star.

As for the question on why do we need to overpay Demar to stay? See Vuc. AK paid him handsomely when on the open market he probably would have maybe gotten full MLE.

As it stands, we're a mediocre team that's mostly on the backs of older vets, don't have a path to a top guy in free agency anytime soon, and also aren't flush with draft picks to either try and land a stud ourselves with, or trade in a blockbuster.

If there's a path to a championship with this current setup, I'm sure not finding it.

[nitetrain8603]

Who's not mad? Mike Wilbon, which shouldn't be a surprise. Guy always has this "Let's wait and see. Draft picks never are 100% thing. You can't just make a change."

[jacoby1us]

We are in NBA hell, we have been there since the summer of 1998. The City of Chicago and all of fans of the Chicago Bulls deserve to have an NBA franchise that operates like a major market team and not sell tickets and live off of our 90s Dynasty teams. We are fighting to stay alive in a play-in tournament........... Disgusted is not even a term that can fit my current feelings at this time.

Do something already....

[Dominator83]

We are in NBA hell, we have been there since the summer of 1998. The City of Chicago and all of fans of the Chicago Bulls deserve to have an NBA franchise that operates like a major market team and not sell tickets and live off of our 90s Dynasty teams. We are fighting to stay alive in a play-in tournament........... Disgusted is not even a term that can fit my current feelings at this time.

Do something already....

They took that even further this year with that Joke of a Ring of Honor ceremony ..... That our big 3 didn't even show up to.

To steal a line from somebody here: when you have no future, gotta keep selling the past

[DropStep]

I'm mostly disappointed (and a little anxious and bored) because the main stated goal seems to be to compete, which, said maybe a more truthful way, means not to be uncompetitive. I want to root for a team with higher aspirations. There are some on here who seem to say "your expectations are too high. There is a path here to be better than bad, and that's all you can ask for on average, so get your pompons out and get excited about being OK one day!" There's nothing fundamentally terrible about like, Chicago as a city, that prevents the teams from being better than that. We can have nice things. Part of the reason New York is so annoying is they always think they should win, to the point of delusion. Given the innate inferiority complex some of us have to fight against, these low standards and low expectations from the management and some fans that I feel sometimes can hit pretty badly.

A couple decades ago, I remember Pax talking about being in the asset accumulation phase of the plan to contend, and not yet the winning phase. That was reassuring, because it meant he had a plan to try to get good, and we were on a journey TO somewhere. Can you skip that phase of being bad? I don't know. Pax didn't think so. Honestly, if AK just changed one word in his endless refrain - "we want to contend," rather than "we want to compete" - and, if they talked more often about eventually being really good, instead of not being bad, it would change my attitude a bit, knowing that these moves (or lack thereof) are in service of a higher goal. Instead, in weak moments, I fear their goal is simply to ride depreciating assets (minus Coby) down the long, inevitable, sad decline into the grave, stay above 30 wins at all costs, and keep the fish on the line. And, I'm the fish. I kind of wish I had taken the blue pill (The Matrix blue pill, not the Pfizer one) and didn't know that Reinsdorf had said things in that vein in the past.

[nekorajo]

I'm not, at least not because of the trade deadline.

It seems like group think has taken over Bulls fans. I thought the initial hiring of Arturas was over-celebrated when he had proven nothing here yet. Now it seems like most fans are overreacting in the opposite direction.

I remember people complaining about GarPax having a plan, stating that plan but not following that plan. Enter Arturas who's been consistent with his ideology. He's not willing to step backwards in order to potentially move forward. He doesn't want to rely on building with high draft picks based on the team sucking. This was clear from the beginning when the majority liked AKME.

This team, even with significant injuries to its best players, has outperformed the team they inherited. So why are his ex supporters so mad all of the sudden? Last year's trade deadline was more significant, and there was barely a peep when Arturas made no moves. He's sticking to his guns. Isn't that what people wanted? It seems like all Bulls GMs/Presidents are doomed to being despised.

I've never been an Arturas guy. I still trust Pax's eye for roster balance more. But it quickly became clear that AK hit it out of the park when they added Zo, Demar and Caruso.

Unfortunately, Zo's injury tied his hands. Then Zach's surgery tied them again.

In my opinion, this summer is a more appropriate time to judge Arturas, because his hands will be untied for the 1st time in 3 years. Demar comes off the books. Healthy Zach should be tradable, and Zo will either be healthy or a great contract to leverage. Until then, I'll be enjoying watching this team play with heart.

You think Zach and Lonzo will be tradeable this off season? I highly doubt it. Teams will need to see them healthy and productive before they go after either one.

It's entirely possible that the Bulls go into 2025 in a worse situation than they did in 2024. DDR gets re-signed, PW gets his contract extension and Drummond might leave (I bet someone offers him a decent deal...do the Bulls match it?). Then you have Zach who will probably still want out, and will showcase his skills, and Lonzo who will be rusty from 2.5 years away from competitive basketball (will he get to the same level he was before? how long will it take? can he continue to stay healthy?).

On top of that DDR and Vucevic will be a year older and the Bulls owe a 2025 pick to the Spurs (top ten protected).

Lonzo's medical exception should make his contract valuable to teams who need to dump salary. That is, if Lonzo can't play anymore.

Zach should be healthy by then. Another team desiring his contract may be wishful thinking on my part though.

[Dan Z]

I'm not, at least not because of the trade deadline.

It seems like group think has taken over Bulls fans. I thought the initial hiring of Arturas was over-celebrated when he had proven nothing here yet. Now it seems like most fans are overreacting in the opposite direction.

I remember people complaining about GarPax having a plan, stating that plan but not following that plan. Enter Arturas who's been consistent with his ideology. He's not willing to step backwards in order to potentially move forward. He doesn't want to rely on building with high draft picks based on the team sucking. This was clear from the beginning when the majority liked AKME.

This team, even with significant injuries to its best players, has outperformed the team they inherited. So why are his ex supporters so mad all of the sudden? Last year's trade deadline was more significant, and there was barely a peep when Arturas made no moves. He's sticking to his guns. Isn't that what people wanted? It seems like all Bulls GMs/Presidents are doomed to being despised.

I've never been an Arturas guy. I still trust Pax's eye for roster balance more. But it quickly became clear that AK hit it out of the park when they added Zo, Demar and Caruso.

Unfortunately, Zo's injury tied his hands. Then Zach's surgery tied them again.

In my opinion, this summer is a more appropriate time to judge Arturas, because his hands will be untied for the 1st time in 3 years. Demar comes off the books. Healthy Zach should be tradable, and Zo will either be healthy or a great contract to leverage. Until then, I'll be enjoying watching this team play with heart.

You think Zach and Lonzo will be tradeable this off season? I highly doubt it. Teams will need to see them healthy and productive before they go after either one.

It's entirely possible that the Bulls go into 2025 in a worse situation than they did in 2024. DDR gets re-signed, PW gets his contract extension and Drummond might leave (I bet someone offers him a decent deal...do the Bulls match it?). Then you have Zach who will probably still want out, and will showcase his skills, and Lonzo who will be rusty from 2.5 years away from competitive basketball (will he get to the same level he was before? how long will it take? can he continue to stay healthy?).

On top of that DDR and Vucevic will be a year older and the Bulls owe a 2025 pick to the Spurs (top ten protected).

Lonzo's medical exception should make his contract valuable to teams who need to dump salary. That is, if Lonzo can't play anymore.

Zach should be healthy by then. Another team desiring his contract may be wishful thinking on my part though.

I bet Lonzo tries to come back next year. Will it happen? Who knows. It might drag on as the season goes on. I just don't see AK trading him, but could be wrong.

As for Zach I don't see why a team would trade for him before he plays again and proves that he's healthy/productive.

[Michael Jackson]

Mad? Not for the trade deadline... I mean you could see a mile away no one wanted any of our players and trading for capspace wasn't really possible, there was really nothing to be done. Overall, because he assembled this group? Yeah I be mad. It really hinges all on the Vuc trade, because he wanted to zig where GarPax zagged. I think that applies to Hali too but... other teams whiffed on that but you know there is a zero percent chance that GarPax don't draft Hali there. The Vuc trade though....

I was tired of the hand sitting of GarPax and just hated Gar's face.... but if you don't fire GarPax you likely are fielding a team of

Hali
Coby
Lavine
Lauri
WCJ
Gafford
Wagner?
Some other pick or two

Is that a championship team? No not exactly but there are few championship teams out there but it surely has a chance.

Maybe I am less angry at AKME than us as a fanbase who wanted to fire GarPax.

[prolific passer]

Not really mad. Just disappointed.

[DuckIII]

Maybe I am less angry at AKME than us as a fanbase who wanted to fire GarPax.

This fanbase always had it wrong about Pax and is learning a painful lesson now. But Pax didn’t want the job anymore anyway so I doubt it changed a whole lot.

[prolific passer]

Maybe I am less angry at AKME than us as a fanbase who wanted to fire GarPax.

This fanbase always had it wrong about Pax and is learning a painful lesson now. But Pax didn’t want the job anymore anyway so I doubt it changed a whole lot.

Pax had a plan and culture for the bulls. First time he stumbled a bit he didn't want to do it anymore. If he stuck to it and rebounded him and the bulls would have been in better position than they are now.

[Michael Jackson]

Maybe I am less angry at AKME than us as a fanbase who wanted to fire GarPax.

This fanbase always had it wrong about Pax and is learning a painful lesson now. But Pax didn’t want the job anymore anyway so I doubt it changed a whole lot.

Pax had a plan and culture for the bulls. First time he stumbled a bit he didn't want to do it anymore. If he stuck to it and rebounded him and the bulls would have been in better position than they are now.

Very true that he didn't want the job but man pre Gar he wasn't bad at all. Post Gar there was a few segments of bad luck and people like to rip on the return for Butler, but it was not a bad return at all as far as things go in retrospect.

[GoBlue72391]

Mad? Not for the trade deadline... I mean you could see a mile away no one wanted any of our players and trading for capspace wasn't really possible, there was really nothing to be done. Overall, because he assembled this group? Yeah I be mad. It really hinges all on the Vuc trade, because he wanted to zig where GarPax zagged. I think that applies to Hali too but... other teams whiffed on that but you know there is a zero percent chance that GarPax don't draft Hali there. The Vuc trade though....

I was tired of the hand sitting of GarPax and just hated Gar's face.... but if you don't fire GarPax you likely are fielding a team of

Hali
Coby
Lavine
Lauri
WCJ
Gafford
Wagner?
Some other pick or two

Is that a championship team? No not exactly but there are few championship teams out there but it surely has a chance.

Maybe I am less angry at AKME than us as a fanbase who wanted to fire GarPax.

Idk, that team with the current versions of Hali, Lauri, and Coby plus a non-hobbled Zach and some solid secondary support like Wagner and WCJ? That probably would be a legit contender.

That's a crap load of fire power.

[Michael Jackson]

Mad? Not for the trade deadline... I mean you could see a mile away no one wanted any of our players and trading for capspace wasn't really possible, there was really nothing to be done. Overall, because he assembled this group? Yeah I be mad. It really hinges all on the Vuc trade, because he wanted to zig where GarPax zagged. I think that applies to Hali too but... other teams whiffed on that but you know there is a zero percent chance that GarPax don't draft Hali there. The Vuc trade though....

I was tired of the hand sitting of GarPax and just hated Gar's face.... but if you don't fire GarPax you likely are fielding a team of

Hali
Coby
Lavine
Lauri
WCJ
Gafford
Wagner?
Some other pick or two

Is that a championship team? No not exactly but there are few championship teams out there but it surely has a chance.

Maybe I am less angry at AKME than us as a fanbase who wanted to fire GarPax.

Idk, that team with the current versions of Hali, Lauri, and Coby plus a non-hobbled Zach and some solid secondary support like Wagner and WCJ? That probably would be a legit contender.

That's a crap load of fire power.

Definetly in the mix with the parity of the league for sure. Better than the Atlanta team that went to the ECF...

I get that the Bulls were trying to reimagine their image when MR took over and AKME are trying to do a winning culture type thing with "continuity" but much like the Lakers who sold assets with LeBron... That team would have been better with standing pat. Kuzma, Caruso, Ingram, Ball, hell Russell(funny) etc.... would have been better for the future and honestly LBJ and AD is pretty middling right now, yet they did WCF last year.

TL:DR The GarPax plan was better. Maybe putting up the billboards was premature and it should have been saved for AKME?

[prolific passer]

This fanbase always had it wrong about Pax and is learning a painful lesson now. But Pax didn’t want the job anymore anyway so I doubt it changed a whole lot.

Pax had a plan and culture for the bulls. First time he stumbled a bit he didn't want to do it anymore. If he stuck to it and rebounded him and the bulls would have been in better position than they are now.

Very true that he didn't want the job but man pre Gar he wasn't bad at all. Post Gar there was a few segments of bad luck and people like to rip on the return for Butler, but it was not a bad return at all as far as things go in retrospect.

Paxson scouted, drafted, and developed players well but the trading out of Chandler and Aldridge for Wallace and Tyrus really got to him for some odd reason.

[WindyCityBorn]

The level of confidence people have in how good or bad a team is and/or can be is truly baffling. They play the games so we can find out. The Bulls are indeed a competitive team. Not fulfilling or satisfying as a fan, but infinitely better than being garbage. I honestly can't believe the conviction people have when we've seen multiple teams of similar performance to ours in the last few years make conference or nba finals.

There's few nba teams that we CAN'T beat. We probably won't advance to the 2nd round, but it's not obvious IMO. Except probably against Boston.

This delusional. We aren’t beating any team in playoff series. More likely to get swept than win.

[WindyCityBorn]

There is absolutely zero value in going from 25 wins to 35-38. Not for the fans, and not for the team short or long term

Learning to win matters

Talent wins.

[prolific passer]

I understand not wanting to rebuild but not retooling to try to make the team better is strange because he doesn't want to give up any of the mid 3.

[nekorajo]

Pax had a plan and culture for the bulls. First time he stumbled a bit he didn't want to do it anymore. If he stuck to it and rebounded him and the bulls would have been in better position than they are now.

Very true that he didn't want the job but man pre Gar he wasn't bad at all. Post Gar there was a few segments of bad luck and people like to rip on the return for Butler, but it was not a bad return at all as far as things go in retrospect.

Paxson scouted, drafted, and developed players well but the trading out of Chandler and Aldridge for Wallace and Tyrus really got to him for some odd reason.

It should have gotten to him. Young Tyson Chandler for old PJ Brown was a cheapskate move. Tyrus for Aldridge was total nonsense. Aldridge clearly established himself as the better prospect in college. As much as I like Pax, I've never gotten over those 2 moves either.

[DuckIII]

The level of confidence people have in how good or bad a team is and/or can be is truly baffling. They play the games so we can find out. The Bulls are indeed a competitive team. Not fulfilling or satisfying as a fan, but infinitely better than being garbage. I honestly can't believe the conviction people have when we've seen multiple teams of similar performance to ours in the last few years make conference or nba finals.

There's few nba teams that we CAN'T beat. We probably won't advance to the 2nd round, but it's not obvious IMO. Except probably against Boston.

This delusional. We aren’t beating any team in playoff series. More likely to get swept than win.

It’s perplexing, but a lot of NBA fans equate the ability to win one-off regular season games with winning an entire series of games against the same opponent.

Not that those wins are completely irrelevant. But their significance is limited when talking about playoff basketball. Completely different animal.