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Remind me again why did we ditch gafford?

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Re: Remind me again why did we ditch gafford? 

Post#41 » by Dan Z » Thu May 9, 2024 10:33 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
Dan Z wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:I really liked Gafford. I thought we should've kept him. All that said, the trade at that moment, wasn't a "bad" deal. We netted Troy Brown who at the time was a recent 15th overall pick, Daniel Theis who was considered to be instrumental to Boston's premier defense, and JaVonte Green who I feel was more of a throw-in but ended up becoming a rotation player.

It became a bad trade when we gave up on Theis so quickly, despite him playing well for us and providing something that no one else on the roster really provides. If we had committed to him as a role player, I think this trade ages better.


Did AK even want to re-sign Theis? I can't remember if he said anything about that. It seemed odd to trade for him and let him walk. Was part of that to avoid paying the luxury tax?


Not sure, but I think they originally wanted to S&T Theis for Caruso so they could use their MLE on another guy, but then there were limits to how many S&Ts they could execute over the cap (and Rockets paid less salary for Theis anyway), the Demar trade came up, so they ended up trading Theis for the TPE (which they of course never used), and signed Caruso with the MLE. Might've mixed the order up. That was a creative off-season, but had Reinsdorf been willing to pay the tax, it could've been much better (pay Lauri's asking price and sort the rotations later, spend the MLE/TPE on another forward, using the bird rights on Theis, etc.). Reinsdorf of course drew the line at adding too much guaranteed salary. They also probably had a choice of DJJ vs. Nance Jr. but went for the marginal savings and less guaranteed salary. I mean , honestly, we're all conditioned to think frugally due to Reinsdorf, but any normal new-age owner would've just paid the top dollar to keep all the talent, hedge whatever moves they made.

I also think Billy and Arturas concluded they'll never run big lineups again, after the dismal post-deadline performance, as the team transformed from small ball to big ball (Thad/Vuc/Theis/Lauri rotation) to hyper small ball (DJJ and PW at C :noway: ). This has backfired, if we may all agree to an extent. I mean, there's small ball (playing an athletic SF at PF), but then there's stupid ball (playing a front-court of Demar/Caruso/Vuc for huge minutes, out of necessity, where you give up standing reach and athleticism at all 3 positions in the paint).

Lonzo, Pat and Zach's injuries aside, there have been SO MANY other issues to write about (at a basic level, team chemistry and low ceiling once things clicked), 4 years in, it's now impossible to feel sorry for Arturas and Reinsdorf.


It makes me question AK's ability to plan for the future. He should've kept all these things in mind when making moves (ownerships budget limits, Theis being a FA, etc.).
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Re: Remind me again why did we ditch gafford? 

Post#42 » by HomoSapien » Thu May 9, 2024 10:53 pm

Dan Z wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:I really liked Gafford. I thought we should've kept him. All that said, the trade at that moment, wasn't a "bad" deal. We netted Troy Brown who at the time was a recent 15th overall pick, Daniel Theis who was considered to be instrumental to Boston's premier defense, and JaVonte Green who I feel was more of a throw-in but ended up becoming a rotation player.

It became a bad trade when we gave up on Theis so quickly, despite him playing well for us and providing something that no one else on the roster really provides. If we had committed to him as a role player, I think this trade ages better.


Did AK even want to re-sign Theis? I can't remember if he said anything about that. It seemed odd to trade for him and let him walk. Was part of that to avoid paying the luxury tax?


They didn’t try to resign him but it seemed like the intention was to keep him since he moved into the starting lineup and was productive.
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Re: Remind me again why did we ditch gafford? 

Post#43 » by chefo » Fri May 10, 2024 12:29 am

In retrospect, it all revolved around Vuc. Lauri was not going to fit because of defense. Outta' here. Thad was next and neither he nor Vuc looked good together. Outta' here. Next was Theis and teams just starting packing the paint when we played these two together, so the entire team looked out of sorts and slow. Outta' here. Gafford doesn't fit with Vuc and there were not enough minutes behind Vuc. Outta' here.

Since Vuc was 'the key' cog to what they were trying to do, everybody who AK thought didn't fit with him was shipped out. They tried a stretch 4 (Lauri), a playmaking, cutting 4 (Thad) and a rim-running 4 (Theis), and all three 'made' Vuc play worse. This is probably when AK should have had an "Oh, shyte!" moment as all 3 are quality players. Next, they should have shipped Vuc out asap, while people still believed he was any good and blame the late season meltdown at the end on Zach getting COVID.

Ahem, the difference between good traders and the ones who go broke is that the former cut their losses early and let their winners run. AK did the exact opposite the season of the Vuc trade. As opposed to find anybody with a pulse (an above-average TS% or AS%) that can contribute at the 1 or 3, they shipped out 3 young, big, productive players who were making peanuts in the scheme of things.

You know what's a good formula for winning? Have cheap $ that produces. Give that young Bulls team Mike Conley or CP and they would have looked vastly better real quick. Even rookie Haliburton for that matter...
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Re: Remind me again why did we ditch gafford? 

Post#44 » by Ctownbulls » Fri May 10, 2024 4:23 am

Why did they ditch DJJ? Was it T Craig vs DJJ?

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Re: Remind me again why did we ditch gafford? 

Post#45 » by kodo » Fri May 10, 2024 5:57 am

We actually would have paid DJ more than Dallas. He had a player option with us for $3M and he sounded locked in ("Like I told Coach (Billy Donovan) and everybody else, I'm locked in for two years. I didn't sign for two years for no reason. So I'm here for two years," Jones Jr. said) but I'm guessing what happened is Dallas told his agent they would give him a starting job.

So he declined his PO, signed for less money ($2M), but he got a starting gig. He probably wants that starting job to put up more stats, get more exposure, and get another contract for more than $2M-$3M. He only signed for 1 year in Dallas, so he's definitely looking towards the next contract. And the reality is that we barely played him, and usually at center where he didn't look great. Overall I think he absolutely made the right choice for himself. He's really increased his stock from his Chicago days.
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Re: Remind me again why did we ditch gafford? 

Post#46 » by Stratmaster » Sat May 11, 2024 10:55 pm

2weekswithpay wrote:Poor asset management. Gafford was the best asset when the trade happened, a young rim running backup 5 on a cheap contract (4yrs/6M). Theis was on an expiring contract and would likely look for more money and a bigger role (He did). Javonte was a good get but a nonshooting defensive wing isn't a valuable archetype.

AK seems to prefer bigs that can pass. Vuc, Theis, Marko, and even Drummond were all solid playmaking bigs at some point in their careers. Gafford isn't a good passer now and was not a good passer in college. Gafford didn't fit the vision AK had for the team and was shipped out.
I can buy that approach for a starting center. But as a backup big on a team with no bigs...

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Re: Remind me again why did we ditch gafford? 

Post#47 » by KissedByaRose1 » Mon May 13, 2024 12:39 am

Gafford was the last pick of the Pax/Forman era i believe lol.
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Re: Remind me again why did we ditch gafford? 

Post#48 » by prolific passer » Mon May 13, 2024 12:44 am

KissedByaRose1 wrote:Gafford was the last pick of the Pax/Forman era i believe lol.


They drafted pretty well for the most part of their time here. Clearly better than ak has in his short time but the peak was Pax by himself from 03-08.

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