What is our "Core" for the future?

[jnrjr79]

Its a tough argument that Caruso isn't a quality starter.

Well, he's never been a regular starter or played big minutes in his career, is often injured, and provides very little on offense, so it's not that tough. But more importantly, he, Zach and Demar can't ALL be quality starters, because none of them can play the 4 at a quality level and White is the 1.

I feel like "offense" in this context is often an inaccurate term and what is really meant is "scoring." But in any event, while Caruso hasn't traditionally been a big scorer, he's at 10.1 PPG in 26 minutes, shooting 49% from the floor and 41.5% from 3. That's a perfectly good scoring contribution. And regardless of how you want to characterize it, Caruso continues to be the Bulls' most impactful player toward overall performance when he's on the court.

I agree through re: the minutes/injury history. Caruso's style doesn't really seem compatible with a long-term role as a starter because he'll just keep getting hurt if he's playing 35 minutes a game or whatever.

[Guru]

Its a tough argument that Caruso isn't a quality starter.

Well, he's never been a regular starter or played big minutes in his career, is often injured, and provides very little on offense, so it's not that tough. But more importantly, he, Zach and Demar can't ALL be quality starters, because none of them can play the 4 at a quality level and White is the 1.

He is one of the best in the league at 50% of the game. He is averaging double figures in scoring. He's started 2/3rd fo the games. His 3 point percentage is nearly at the best in his career. His rebounds are the best of his career.

He impacts this team more than Lavine because DDR and White play off him instead of against him.

[MikeDC]

This is just an exercise in defining terms. I'd approach it like this:
1. Is this guy OK for the near term (next one to two seasons)?
2. Is this guy OK for the far term (2-3+years)?

If your answer to both questions is yes for a player, he's part of the core. Example:
1. Coby, good young player on a reasonable deal. He's good now, and he should be reasonably capable of contributing in the long-term if re-signed.
2. Ayo. Same.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't move off of them if a good deal was available, but they're core in the sense that we should generally be fine keeping them around.

Now:
Lonzo. Nope. Dead money
Zach. Nope. Massive contract impeding things. Injury concerns.
Vuc. Nope. Massively overpaid and attached to long term deal.

At best you could say 1 is true of these guys, but they're not going to help with 2. And they're locked in to contracts. So you have to move off those guys.

Caruso and DeMar are 1 yes and 2 no. But their contracts don't take them to 2, so they're both easier to trade to other teams and one can imagine they'd be ok if the $ work out for their next deal. Still, I don't want to pay Caruso his next contract if it's a 3-4 year deal. I'd be OK with DeMar on a year by year extension.

Pat, assuming his injury isn't major, is core unless someone makes an unexpectedly crazy offer for him. In the short run (maybe next season) I think we're not complete trash...

G- Coby
G- Ayo
F- DeMar
F- Pat
C- ?

...but not so good that we won't have a chance at a good draft pick. Probably picking 6-12. If we don't come to terms with DeMar, we probably are a looking at picking 1-8.

Obviously that sort of depends on what we get for AC and whether we get anything for or can replace Zach/Lonzo/Vuc/Demar.

[TheSuzerain]

This is just an exercise in defining terms. I'd approach it like this:
1. Is this guy OK for the near term (next one to two seasons)?
2. Is this guy OK for the far term (2-3+years)?

If your answer to both questions is yes for a player, he's part of the core. Example:
1. Coby, good young player on a reasonable deal. He's good now, and he should be reasonably capable of contributing in the long-term if re-signed.
2. Ayo. Same.

Doesn't mean I wouldn't move off of them if a good deal was available, but they're core in the sense that we should generally be fine keeping them around.

Now:
Lonzo. Nope. Dead money
Zach. Nope. Massive contract impeding things. Injury concerns.
Vuc. Nope. Massively overpaid and attached to long term deal.

At best you could say 1 is true of these guys, but they're not going to help with 2. And they're locked in to contracts. So you have to move off those guys.

Caruso and DeMar are 1 yes and 2 no. But their contracts don't take them to 2, so they're both easier to trade to other teams and one can imagine they'd be ok if the $ work out for their next deal. Still, I don't want to pay Caruso his next contract if it's a 3-4 year deal. I'd be OK with DeMar on a year by year extension.

Pat, assuming his injury isn't major, is core unless someone makes an unexpectedly crazy offer for him. In the short run (maybe next season) I think we're not complete trash...

G- Coby
G- Ayo
F- DeMar
F- Pat
C- ?

...but not so good that we won't have a chance at a good draft pick. Probably picking 6-12. If we don't come to terms with DeMar, we probably are a looking at picking 1-8.

Obviously that sort of depends on what we get for AC and whether we get anything for or can replace Zach/Lonzo/Vuc/Demar.

With the new lotto odds, 5th-6th odds is kind of a sweet spot.

And I do think that lineup absolutely has 'complete trash' potential depending on the depth situation.

[TheSuzerain]

Give me:

Coby
Ayo
PWill
Phillips or Furphy
Edey

Suck for one year and pick super high in 2025. Ascend from there.

[MikeDC]

With the new lotto odds, 5th-6th odds is kind of a sweet spot.

And I do think that lineup absolutely has 'complete trash' potential depending on the depth situation.

It does. In fairness, every team without a top 15 player or so is basically in that position though.

I agree that the right place is to be in striking distance of that 5-8 range. Bad enough to have a real chance of lotto luck, but better than the really trash teams that sink and never recover because they aren't fielding a complete team.

[greenl]

The core is whatever draft capital they can get for anyone/everyone on this roster. Yes- Ayo and Coby could contribute to a contending team- but the Bulls might be several years away from that.

Tough time to be a fan of this franchise. Even their potential core pieces are league average players. There is literally nothing to be excited about for the Bulls future right now- save the lottery gods smiling upon them.

[NecessaryEvil]

#BeBadForCooperFlagg

[Chi town]

Give me:

Coby
Ayo
PWill
Phillips or Furphy
Edey

Suck for one year and pick super high in 2025. Ascend from there.

I’m here for it.

That’d be 100x’s better than this “Has Been” vet entitlement trash with DDR and Vuc. Both those declining like crazy.

It’s so clear we need to play fast and move the ball and DDR and Vuc destroy that. We have the slowest pace in the league. Let that settle in.

[GrowingHorns]

This organisation is going to eff it up regardless, so it doesn't matter what the core is. So I suggest to sign 15 pygmis for entertainment value.

[Bandit King]

Julian and coby

[R3AL1TY]

Coby, Ayo, Pwill + Superstar

[fleet]

This organisation is going to eff it up regardless, so it doesn't matter what the core is. So I suggest to sign 15 pygmis for entertainment value.

I am in favor of zero core. Go coreless. Go out into the desert and meditate on their franchise. FO had a reasonable idea on a team build a couple years ago, and went for it. Probably at the behest of the chairman that seems to prefer veteran teams in both of his franchises instead of aimless youth. At the time, some of us if not many of us were very nervous about the limited upside of the plan, and complete lack of flexibilty to come out of it if it doesn't work. After a hopeful beginning, it has indeed fallen apart. After watching them double down on their NBA hell plan over and over, it has become clear that the Bulls would rather make as much money as possible the next few years keeping it going as best as possible by selling modest goals instead of going lights out on a painful tank/bottom floor rebuild. If they even could tank because their players are so meh they are difficult to unload without taking a net loss on assets, and perhaps at the ticket window. But that goes back to willingness to lose money and *talent* in order to make it right in the longer run as fast as possible.

[prolific passer]

Coby and........

[Dan Z]

It's important for the Bulls to make the most out of their 2024 pick. They owe a 2025 pick to San Antonio that's protected 1-10, then 1-8 in 26 and 1-8 in 27.

[ChiTownHero1992]

If i had my way, going into next year I'd want major changes but that's not our FO's MO.

WANT On Roster: Ayo and Coby (possibly Williams depending on Price)
Would TOLERATE On Roster still: Caruso, Drummond, Terry and Phillips
Please EXIT the Building: Demar, Carter, Vuc, Craig
Want KICKED to the Curb: Lonzo, Lavine

Unfortunately what I see happening is that of those 13 players, a minimum 10 of them will be in our rotation next year as well.

[GoBlue72391]

Keepers:
Coby
Ayo
Phillips

Should be traded, but if not then keep:
Caruso
Pat

Unknowns:
Terry
Bitim
Drell