Bears 2024 2.0

[_txchilibowl_]

If the Commanders are desperate to get Caleb Williams there would be some interesting possibilities. They may want to trade Howell. They have Cosmi, Allen, Payne, and McClaurin, who would all be helpfull to us.

For Bryce Young we got:
DJ Moore (approx. value of a 1st + 2nd round pick)
No. 9
No 61
2024 1st
2025 2nd
So basically two 1s and two 2s in 2023, plus a future 1 and 2.

For Williams we should get a player(s) worth a 1 and 2, a 1 and 2 this year, plus future 1 and 2. I would say that's the minimum even if we only trade one spot because Williams is a better prospect.

2, 36, 2025 1, 2026 2, G Sam Cosmi, QB Sam Howell.

I read up on all things Commanders and haven't heard anything that supports this. Washington is in worse shape then the Bears and need all the draft capital they can get. I'm sure they'd be interested in trading for Williams but not at the asking price you're suggesting. I would think two 2nds + #2 would be in the range that they would be comfortable with to move up one spot. Obviously this is just my speculation.

If anything Washington trading back from #2 is more likely...


Edit: looking at your offer again I don't think it's that far off. Washington probably would throw the additional players in to get the deal done, not as confident about the additional 2026 1st. But the bones of a deal are there.

[molepharmer]

Jackson Powers-Johnson (Oregon, IOL) has been at center during Senior Bowl practces and has buried a couple of d-linemen in one-on-one drills. Impressive. Couple of video tweets are at Nicholas Moreano twitter. In the consensus mock draft I use, he's projected at #40. Zach Frazier the other highly regarded center prospect is at #66.

fwiw - Bears TE coach Jim Dray is coaching the O-line at the Senior Bowl. Poles, Cunningham and a bunch of Bear scouts are there. Live practice telecasts start tomorrow.

[Peelboy]

I don't think a Gm saying that he'd draft Williams over Elway, Manning, or Burrow is an example of just how great Williams is but how people tend to overhype prospects. Those three were clearly better prospects than Williams. But I love the Mahomes comparisons - it just means we'll get so much more when we trade the 1st pick.

Not to call you out only, but a lot of comments along the lines of "well the evaluators make mistakes, so they're wrong about Caleb." That basically translates to "evaluators make mistakes, therefore I'm right when I think something different than them right now and they're wrong."

That's the reason why what's important to me is the overwhelming consensus across multiple sources/evaluators (including journalists who say they've surveyed a bunch of scouts, unless you think they're lying). Everyone says something ranging from "a really really good prospect" to "one of the best prospects ever." I think it's a fallacy to say "I disagree, and look they've been wrong before." That argument applies even more so to any of us and to any evaluation of Fields (or Marv).

[fleet]

I don't think a Gm saying that he'd draft Williams over Elway, Manning, or Burrow is an example of just how great Williams is but how people tend to overhype prospects. Those three were clearly better prospects than Williams. But I love the Mahomes comparisons - it just means we'll get so much more when we trade the 1st pick.

If NFL FOs believed that stuff about CW, the asset is completely untradeable. If you want to trade the pick, you better hope they don’t think that stuff.

[TheJordanRule]

The more I look at MHJ, the more I think this might be the draft to get greedy. Not only should we take Caleb at 1, but how much would it cost to move up from 9 to take MHJ at 3? They'd be the two faces of our franchise for at least a decade moving forward.

[molepharmer]

A few comments from teammates and opponents who are at the East-West Shrine game about CW. These kind of stood out to me.....
“I’d say he is slippery. He’s got a big build..."
"...I definitely thought that he was a specimen to behold. I remember after the first drive, we came off and me and Bralen (Trice) were like, ‘Did you see that guy’s legs...."
"...But more so what he does with his feet, cause at practice we are not touching him. But when he gets in the game and he’s making guys fall over and he’s running guys over, that’s when I’m like, ‘Wow, this guy is crazy.'”

https://allchgo.com/shrine-bowl-2024-what-caleb-williams-teammates-and-opponents-had-to-say-about-the-usc-quarterback/

[Dresden]

I don't think a Gm saying that he'd draft Williams over Elway, Manning, or Burrow is an example of just how great Williams is but how people tend to overhype prospects. Those three were clearly better prospects than Williams. But I love the Mahomes comparisons - it just means we'll get so much more when we trade the 1st pick.

Not to call you out only, but a lot of comments along the lines of "well the evaluators make mistakes, so they're wrong about Caleb." That basically translates to "evaluators make mistakes, therefore I'm right when I think something different than them right now and they're wrong."

That's the reason why what's important to me is the overwhelming consensus across multiple sources/evaluators (including journalists who say they've surveyed a bunch of scouts, unless you think they're lying). Everyone says something ranging from "a really really good prospect" to "one of the best prospects ever." I think it's a fallacy to say "I disagree, and look they've been wrong before." That argument applies even more so to any of us and to any evaluation of Fields (or Marv).

I think the thing people who are pro Fields are overlooking or underestimating is just how much of an impact having a top 5 QB can make to a team's fortunes. The thought is that Fields can improve to the point where he's an above average QB. Like Baker Mayfield? Kirk Cousins? Derek Carr? Whereas, Caleb has a good chance to be as good as Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, or better. The QB position is so critical to the offense, having a huge upgrade at that position is easily worth having a huge upgrade at any other 3 positions.

[Betta Bulleavit]

https://www.totalprosports.com/nfl/rumor-49ers-considering-benching-star-player-super-bowl-pathetic-effort/

Not sure if this has been posted yet or not. But this is a guy that a lot of people think we should be going after this off-season.

[_txchilibowl_]

The more I look at MHJ, the more I think this might be the draft to get greedy. Not only should we take Caleb at 1, but how much would it cost to move up from 9 to take MHJ at 3? They'd be the two faces of our franchise for at least a decade moving forward.

Washington is down for this but it's going to require a Carolina type trade.

DJ
#9
#75
2025 #1
2025 #2

[fleet]

The more I look at MHJ, the more I think this might be the draft to get greedy. Not only should we take Caleb at 1, but how much would it cost to move up from 9 to take MHJ at 3? They'd be the two faces of our franchise for at least a decade moving forward.

Washington is down for this but it's going to require a Carolina type trade.

DJ
#9
#75
2025 #1
2025 #2

Too much. Especially with the quality of receiver that might be available at #9, that kind of deal sets us back long term. Commanders would want to come out of this with a quarterback. If they like Fields, then...

[_txchilibowl_]

I prefer Sam Howell to Justin Fields.

[MissileMike]

I prefer Sam Howell to Justin Fields.

Q: Who is better, Sam Howell or Justin Fields?
A: Caleb Williams

[fleet]

With scouts that have takes like that, it's not quite as surprising that 1st round QBs get overdrafted and bust half the time...could you imagine if someone said a prospect was "Michael Jordan with better body control" or "Magic with better vision?" No one would take that guy seriously, but NFL scouts/pundits get away with it apparently lol

They can’t make those comments compared to the NFL Mahomes. I would think the context was missing, if the comments are even real. As a prospect comparison at best

Calling back to an earlier exchange, I think if you're comparing recent prospects, then the Williams to Murray comparison is by far the most complete comparison. They played under the same coach, in the same system, with similar playing styles and attributes. The only major difference is their height and Williams' strength. Murray was highly regarded. People were saying he would be a perfect prospect if he wasn't 5'10" with short arms and a small frame. He was a much more highly touted prospect than Mahomes. In this regard, I think Williams is an amazing prospect. I do not think he will step in and have a CJ Stroud year, unless he has a good group of weapons around him, given his issues with hitting open receivers early.

I won’t disagree. I have seen some incredible Murray college tape. We would have to look at the numbers to get a better idea of a quality comparison, but I think it’s the same ballpark. The height thing is important to both.

If Kyler Murray was 6’1 in college with the same numbers…

If Caleb was 6’4 with the same numbers.

[ThisGuyFawkes]

The idea of trading down from #9 to get additional 2nd and 3rd round picks is really growing on me. We could grab a starter-caliber player at both WR and C and still have some more draft capital to address other needs (Safety, Edge, etc)

With the caveat that it depends on how FA goes.

[TheJordanRule]

The more I look at MHJ, the more I think this might be the draft to get greedy. Not only should we take Caleb at 1, but how much would it cost to move up from 9 to take MHJ at 3? They'd be the two faces of our franchise for at least a decade moving forward.

Washington is down for this but it's going to require a Carolina type trade.

DJ
#9
#75
2025 #1
2025 #2

Too much. Especially with the quality of receiver that might be available at #9, that kind of deal sets us back long term. Commanders would want to come out of this with a quarterback. If they like Fields, then...

So a God-father type offer. That makes sense, Texas. MHJ would be a core building block for the franchise that gets him. If you guys opt to draft him, I think your franchise will have an unstoppable offensive force at the WR position. I'm with Fleet, though. I just can't justify that price as a Bears fan. If Nabers falls, that would be tremendous. Otherwise, we have guys we can draft at OT and DE who will be incredibly impactful.

[_txchilibowl_]

Washington is down for this but it's going to require a Carolina type trade.

DJ
#9
#75
2025 #1
2025 #2

Too much. Especially with the quality of receiver that might be available at #9, that kind of deal sets us back long term. Commanders would want to come out of this with a quarterback. If they like Fields, then...

So a God-father type offer. That makes sense, Texas. MHJ would be a core building block for the franchise that gets him. If you guys opt to draft him, I think your franchise will have an unstoppable offensive force at the WR position. I'm with Fleet, though. I just can't justify that price as a Bears fan. If Nabers falls, that would be tremendous. Otherwise, we have guys we can draft at OT and DE who will be incredibly impactful.

I wouldn't expect the Bears to make a deal like this. Similarly, I would not expect Washington to give up the same package to move from #2 to #1, as has been suggested.

[patryk7754]

I don't think a Gm saying that he'd draft Williams over Elway, Manning, or Burrow is an example of just how great Williams is but how people tend to overhype prospects. Those three were clearly better prospects than Williams. But I love the Mahomes comparisons - it just means we'll get so much more when we trade the 1st pick.

Not to call you out only, but a lot of comments along the lines of "well the evaluators make mistakes, so they're wrong about Caleb." That basically translates to "evaluators make mistakes, therefore I'm right when I think something different than them right now and they're wrong."

That's the reason why what's important to me is the overwhelming consensus across multiple sources/evaluators (including journalists who say they've surveyed a bunch of scouts, unless you think they're lying). Everyone says something ranging from "a really really good prospect" to "one of the best prospects ever." I think it's a fallacy to say "I disagree, and look they've been wrong before." That argument applies even more so to any of us and to any evaluation of Fields (or Marv).

It seems you've misinterpreted my statement. Im not saying he's wrong to think Williams is an all time prospect, but by any metric, williams is not a better prospect than at least Luck, Manning, and Elway. Those three were literally flawless (unless you want to count Mannings lack of athleticism). Even with how great of a player williams is, he still has things he needs to workout like processing the play faster. It might be nitpicky, but when comparing to those guys, you have to .

[patryk7754]

I don't think a Gm saying that he'd draft Williams over Elway, Manning, or Burrow is an example of just how great Williams is but how people tend to overhype prospects. Those three were clearly better prospects than Williams. But I love the Mahomes comparisons - it just means we'll get so much more when we trade the 1st pick.

Not to call you out only, but a lot of comments along the lines of "well the evaluators make mistakes, so they're wrong about Caleb." That basically translates to "evaluators make mistakes, therefore I'm right when I think something different than them right now and they're wrong."

That's the reason why what's important to me is the overwhelming consensus across multiple sources/evaluators (including journalists who say they've surveyed a bunch of scouts, unless you think they're lying). Everyone says something ranging from "a really really good prospect" to "one of the best prospects ever." I think it's a fallacy to say "I disagree, and look they've been wrong before." That argument applies even more so to any of us and to any evaluation of Fields (or Marv).

I think the thing people who are pro Fields are overlooking or underestimating is just how much of an impact having a top 5 QB can make to a team's fortunes. The thought is that Fields can improve to the point where he's an above average QB. Like Baker Mayfield? Kirk Cousins? Derek Carr? Whereas, Caleb has a good chance to be as good as Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, Justin Herbert, or better. The QB position is so critical to the offense, having a huge upgrade at that position is easily worth having a huge upgrade at any other 3 positions.

nope. not overlooking anything. you think Williams or any other QB will be better than Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow, Allen, Jackson? Chances are he's not going to be a top 5 QB. I've said over and over Williams would be great to have but I think Fields will be great so its better to build around him.

[patryk7754]

I prefer Sam Howell to Justin Fields.

lol

[patryk7754]

I don't think a Gm saying that he'd draft Williams over Elway, Manning, or Burrow is an example of just how great Williams is but how people tend to overhype prospects. Those three were clearly better prospects than Williams. But I love the Mahomes comparisons - it just means we'll get so much more when we trade the 1st pick.

If NFL FOs believed that stuff about CW, the asset is completely untradeable. If you want to trade the pick, you better hope they don’t think that stuff.

that doesn't really make sense. If Poles has decided to keep fields, he should want other teams to think Williams (or whoever) is better than Jesus, maximizing his return in the trade.

Unless you are saying Poles should take other teams opinions on Williams into consideration- which wouldn't be wise