Who isn't mad at Arturas?

[MrSparkle]

More than anything, my mind is boggled as to how 5y into the job, it’s almost like AK’s tenure has been a parallel Pax universe.

Undersized defensive players: check

Over-relying on short-term over-the-hill vets with no plans to resign them (Antonio Davis, PJ, Othella, Piatkowski - Drummond, Craig, Beverley.. check)… Getting a little too attached to defensive role-players (Kirk/Caruso/Ayo.. check)… dumping the younger assets (Chandler/Lauri/Gafford/Wendell) for the old role-player (Wallace/Theis/Vuc)… hiring a stubborn coach who favors undersized defensive lineups with severe offensive handicaps… Big splash first year, stale/zero-creativity the next 3…

I mean, this team has basically been a spinning alt image of the 04-07 Bulls, right up to how our key young pieces have gotten injured during the hottest stretches (Deng’s broken wrist, Curry’s heart… Lonzo’s injury, Caruso and Pat’s broken wrists and other ailments).

Now that Lavine’s out the picture, I can’t say this team is softer. Caruso is a higher impact defender than Kirk was, Demar and Coby are more consistent and versatile offensive options than Gordon was, and Drummond/Vuc are better than Othella and a struggling Chandler. Year 2/3 Deng would’ve probably been the best player on this team, though… and I think we’re missing a Noc - a front-court bruiser with all-around skills. Craig is a very lite version of Noc.

I did like that team until they ran out of steam. I can’t say I dislike this current team. If Vuc were to find his 3P touch, I’d come around to accepting the aftermath of the regrettable events that kept him here. Demar is playing as well as a 35yo (short of a Lebron/Durant) could possibly play, and I think fans take him for granted. Rolling the dice on him past this year becomes dicey. I am hoping they S&T him if he doesn’t agree to a very short contract (honestly, $30m/1y would be my offer). I don’t mind keeping him cheap, but this team should’ve pivoted to picks and cap space last month, especially when it became apparent Coby turned the corner.

But the underwhelming draft picks, the lack of picks, the lack of back-end trades… And still, the horrible big-picture hindsight of moving multiple better assets for an overrated Vuc… I just don’t know what he plans to do with an injured $65m backcourt, getting ready to pay a 35yo more than his market value to keep him.

[ChiTownHero1992]

To me they don't know how to build a roster...and never have. Everyone who continues to claim "Before with Lonzo...if Lonzo wasn't injured...." it shouldn't matter, if you build a contending roster, 1 players injuries shouldn't take you from 1st to 10th. He never had a backup plan, he didn't have a bench built up, he brought together ball-dominant players that don't play well together. I've been frustrated with this regime since they started and it has only gone down hill quickly since then.

Your plan for 4 straight season CANNOT simply be, "If we were healthy we'd be a playoff team" that is not how you build a winning ball club!

[League Circles]

The level of confidence people have in how good or bad a team is and/or can be is truly baffling. They play the games so we can find out. The Bulls are indeed a competitive team. Not fulfilling or satisfying as a fan, but infinitely better than being garbage. I honestly can't believe the conviction people have when we've seen multiple teams of similar performance to ours in the last few years make conference or nba finals.

There's few nba teams that we CAN'T beat. We probably won't advance to the 2nd round, but it's not obvious IMO. Except probably against Boston.

This delusional. We aren’t beating any team in playoff series. More likely to get swept than win.

It’s perplexing, but a lot of NBA fans equate the ability to win one-off regular season games with winning an entire series of games against the same opponent.

Not that those wins are completely irrelevant. But their significance is limited when talking about playoff basketball. Completely different animal.

Equally perplexing that a lot of fans think that team ability/performance is some kind of fixed, static thing. We have 4 healthy all star caliber talents plus a 5th injured one plus a DPOY caliber guy. No one should be surprised if we beat a team in round 1, unless they're a person who is easily surprised. I'm not predicting it, but it's obviously plausible. For example people rightly think Vuc has been sucking this year. He sure has. But if he shoots 40% from 3 for the rest of the season and helps us win a playoff series, if people are surprised by that like they think it's against the laws of nature or something, I don't know what to tell them. The anomaly with this team frankly has been how mediocre we've been since Ball went down. We've played below our talent. That probably means the complementary skills of our players have been poorly assembled, but we have plenty of talent to win something if the players keep figuring it out.

[GoBlue72391]

The level of confidence people have in how good or bad a team is and/or can be is truly baffling. They play the games so we can find out. The Bulls are indeed a competitive team. Not fulfilling or satisfying as a fan, but infinitely better than being garbage. I honestly can't believe the conviction people have when we've seen multiple teams of similar performance to ours in the last few years make conference or nba finals.

There's few nba teams that we CAN'T beat. We probably won't advance to the 2nd round, but it's not obvious IMO. Except probably against Boston.

This delusional. We aren’t beating any team in playoff series. More likely to get swept than win.

It’s perplexing, but a lot of NBA fans equate the ability to win one-off regular season games with winning an entire series of games against the same opponent.

Not that those wins are completely irrelevant. But their significance is limited when talking about playoff basketball. Completely different animal.

I used to think that until the Heat gave us the gentlemen's sweep after we were undefeated against them in the regular season back in 2010-11.

[DuckIII]

We have 4 healthy all star caliber talents plus a 5th injured one plus a DPOY caliber guy.

Really? Hot damn! I take back all of my posts from the last 52 weeks and 2 days.

[DuckIII]

This delusional. We aren’t beating any team in playoff series. More likely to get swept than win.

It’s perplexing, but a lot of NBA fans equate the ability to win one-off regular season games with winning an entire series of games against the same opponent.

Not that those wins are completely irrelevant. But their significance is limited when talking about playoff basketball. Completely different animal.

I used to think that until the Heat gave us the gentlemen's sweep after we were undefeated against them in the regular season back in 2010-11.

Happens all the time. The inferior team wins one of the first two games, the superior and more athletically diverse team adjusts, the inferior team lacks the tools to counter-adjust, series over and not very competitive.

[jacoby1us]

We can go round and round with comments but the fact remains with this current roster under this management and coaching system the Bulls have only made the playoffs ONCE, they only have ONE POST SEASON win in a series. They particapated in the Play-in tournament last season and lost against the Heat to clinch another postseason berth.

How do you feel like you still have enough to legitemately compete in the NBA with this trend? How do you give an extension to a coach who has FAILED time and time again to make adjustments during the game and eventually lose multiple winnable games? At this point either you're incompetent as a GM or you're truly the puppet of the Reinsdorf's and your sole purpose is to continue to produce a mediocre product that will sell tickets/merchandise and continue bringing in revenue to their family. The goal is obviously not to compete for championship let alone even making the playoffs outright as a top 6 seed.

SELL THE DAMN TEAM ALREADY.
Our team is run like we live in Timbucktoo, Alabama.

[DuckIII]

To me they don't know how to build a roster...and never have.

I don’t know. I think their total disregard of pace, point guards, power forwards, perimeter shooting and interior defense is just ahead of its time.

You watch. 10 years from now the NBA is just going to be a bunch of 6’6 guys taking mid range jump shots and AK will loom above it all nodding his head like a Jack Nicholson meme.

[prolific passer]

We have 4 healthy all star caliber talents plus a 5th injured one plus a DPOY caliber guy.

Really? Hot damn! I take back all of my posts from the last 52 weeks and 2 days.

96 bulls who?

[DuckIII]

We have 4 healthy all star caliber talents plus a 5th injured one plus a DPOY caliber guy.

Really? Hot damn! I take back all of my posts from the last 52 weeks and 2 days.

96 bulls who?

Our embarrassment of riches is almost unfair.

[madvillian]

To me they don't know how to build a roster...and never have. Everyone who continues to claim "Before with Lonzo...if Lonzo wasn't injured...." it shouldn't matter, if you build a contending roster, 1 players injuries shouldn't take you from 1st to 10th. He never had a backup plan, he didn't have a bench built up, he brought together ball-dominant players that don't play well together. I've been frustrated with this regime since they started and it has only gone down hill quickly since then.

Your plan for 4 straight season CANNOT simply be, "If we were healthy we'd be a playoff team" that is not how you build a winning ball club!

They've had more than enough time to reconfigure things after his initial injury and setback and they haven't. They drafted guys like Pat and Ayo and Terry who would be much better in a SSOL type offense and they wanted Demar and Zach walking it up. They didn't even know what they had in White until Zach got hurt and forced their hand.

They have no idea what they want to do holistically with the roster. If the entire plan revolved around ONE PLAYER IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE that was not a good plan.

[prolific passer]

Really? Hot damn! I take back all of my posts from the last 52 weeks and 2 days.

96 bulls who?

Our embarrassment of riches is almost unfair.

We are a super duper team. Then players just haven't figured it out yet.

[prolific passer]

More than anything, my mind is boggled as to how 5y into the job, it’s almost like AK’s tenure has been a parallel Pax universe.

Undersized defensive players: check

Over-relying on short-term over-the-hill vets with no plans to resign them (Antonio Davis, PJ, Othella, Piatkowski - Drummond, Craig, Beverley.. check)… Getting a little too attached to defensive role-players (Kirk/Caruso/Ayo.. check)… dumping the younger assets (Chandler/Lauri/Gafford/Wendell) for the old role-player (Wallace/Theis/Vuc)… hiring a stubborn coach who favors undersized defensive lineups with severe offensive handicaps… Big splash first year, stale/zero-creativity the next 3…

I mean, this team has basically been a spinning alt image of the 04-07 Bulls, right up to how our key young pieces have gotten injured during the hottest stretches (Deng’s broken wrist, Curry’s heart… Lonzo’s injury, Caruso and Pat’s broken wrists and other ailments).

Now that Lavine’s out the picture, I can’t say this team is softer. Caruso is a higher impact defender than Kirk was, Demar and Coby are more consistent and versatile offensive options than Gordon was, and Drummond/Vuc are better than Othella and a struggling Chandler. Year 2/3 Deng would’ve probably been the best player on this team, though… and I think we’re missing a Noc - a front-court bruiser with all-around skills. Craig is a very lite version of Noc.

I did like that team until they ran out of steam. I can’t say I dislike this current team. If Vuc were to find his 3P touch, I’d come around to accepting the aftermath of the regrettable events that kept him here. Demar is playing as well as a 35yo (short of a Lebron/Durant) could possibly play, and I think fans take him for granted. Rolling the dice on him past this year becomes dicey. I am hoping they S&T him if he doesn’t agree to a very short contract (honestly, $30m/1y would be my offer). I don’t mind keeping him cheap, but this team should’ve pivoted to picks and cap space last month, especially when it became apparent Coby turned the corner.

But the underwhelming draft picks, the lack of picks, the lack of back-end trades… And still, the horrible big-picture hindsight of moving multiple better assets for an overrated Vuc… I just don’t know what he plans to do with an injured $65m backcourt, getting ready to pay a 35yo more than his market value to keep him.

Difference is that the 05-07 squads were great defensively and showed plenty of heart and grit. This team has been questioned on all of that many times.

[League Circles]

Really? Hot damn! I take back all of my posts from the last 52 weeks and 2 days.

96 bulls who?

Our embarrassment of riches is almost unfair.

There are no people that delusionally think we're a good team. But there are many who delusionally think we're a bad team. The point is that it's simply a matter of objective fact that we're not particularly talent deficient at all. We have a lot of guys who have had a lot of success in this league, which is why it's always been strange that we've hovered at or just under average since Ball went down. I'm definitely not predicting success, but this team certainly has always had plausible hope for success on paper. And sometimes......... that breeds actual success on the court, even after notable periods of under performing, sometimes for seasons at a time. It's not only teams with true superstars that can underperform and then improve like the recent Lakers and Heat examples that I was alluding to.

[Dan Z]

To me they don't know how to build a roster...and never have. Everyone who continues to claim "Before with Lonzo...if Lonzo wasn't injured...." it shouldn't matter, if you build a contending roster, 1 players injuries shouldn't take you from 1st to 10th. He never had a backup plan, he didn't have a bench built up, he brought together ball-dominant players that don't play well together. I've been frustrated with this regime since they started and it has only gone down hill quickly since then.

Your plan for 4 straight season CANNOT simply be, "If we were healthy we'd be a playoff team" that is not how you build a winning ball club!

They've had more than enough time to reconfigure things after his initial injury and setback and they haven't. They drafted guys like Pat and Ayo and Terry who would be much better in a SSOL type offense and they wanted Demar and Zach walking it up. They didn't even know what they had in White until Zach got hurt and forced their hand.

They have no idea what they want to do holistically with the roster. If the entire plan revolved around ONE PLAYER IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE that was not a good plan.

I'm tired of people using Lonzo as an excuse. He played 35 games total for the Bulls and that was two years ago. I agree with you...the front office has had more than enough time to pivot in a new direction, even with Lonzo's contract being negative.

I saw this tweet by Doug. It looks like this year's team will finish with a similar record to last year. How many years do they continue trying the same thing when the results are 9th or 10th place?

Read on Twitter

[Guru]

What specific trade did they not make that you wanted them to make?

What move?

[Guru]

To me they don't know how to build a roster...and never have. Everyone who continues to claim "Before with Lonzo...if Lonzo wasn't injured...." it shouldn't matter, if you build a contending roster, 1 players injuries shouldn't take you from 1st to 10th. He never had a backup plan, he didn't have a bench built up, he brought together ball-dominant players that don't play well together. I've been frustrated with this regime since they started and it has only gone down hill quickly since then.

Your plan for 4 straight season CANNOT simply be, "If we were healthy we'd be a playoff team" that is not how you build a winning ball club!

They've had more than enough time to reconfigure things after his initial injury and setback and they haven't. They drafted guys like Pat and Ayo and Terry who would be much better in a SSOL type offense and they wanted Demar and Zach walking it up. They didn't even know what they had in White until Zach got hurt and forced their hand.

They have no idea what they want to do holistically with the roster. If the entire plan revolved around ONE PLAYER IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE that was not a good plan.

I'm tired of people using Lonzo as an excuse. He played 35 games total for the Bulls and that was two years ago. I agree with you...the front office has had more than enough time to pivot in a new direction, even with Lonzo's contract being negative.

I saw this tweet by Doug. It looks like this year's team will finish with a similar record to last year. How many years do they continue trying the same thing when the results are 9th or 10th place?

Read on Twitter

That's not an accurate portrayal of the Lonzo situation. They couldn't pivot, or didn't know they had to pivot for very little of that time and when they did pivot they had success.

They have been trying to trade Lavine with no partner and then it seems pretty clear he shut himself down to not go to Detroit.

[Dan Z]

They've had more than enough time to reconfigure things after his initial injury and setback and they haven't. They drafted guys like Pat and Ayo and Terry who would be much better in a SSOL type offense and they wanted Demar and Zach walking it up. They didn't even know what they had in White until Zach got hurt and forced their hand.

They have no idea what they want to do holistically with the roster. If the entire plan revolved around ONE PLAYER IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE that was not a good plan.

I'm tired of people using Lonzo as an excuse. He played 35 games total for the Bulls and that was two years ago. I agree with you...the front office has had more than enough time to pivot in a new direction, even with Lonzo's contract being negative.

I saw this tweet by Doug. It looks like this year's team will finish with a similar record to last year. How many years do they continue trying the same thing when the results are 9th or 10th place?

Read on Twitter

That's not an accurate portrayal of the Lonzo situation. They couldn't pivot, or didn't know they had to pivot for very little of that time and when they did pivot they had success.

They have been trying to trade Lavine with no partner and then it seems pretty clear he shut himself down to not go to Detroit.

When did they pivot? Last year they picked up Patrick Beverley so they could fight to get in the play-in. This year they made no moves and are also trying to get to the play-in (and hopefully more).

It was obvious for a long time that Lonzo wasn't coming back and one player shouldn't be the reason why you can't do better (unless it's a star player). Lonzo is a solid player (or was), but he's no star.

[Risk Addict]

I’m not mad at AK. But I also wasn’t mad at Pax honestly. Not a fan of Gar and not so sure what Marc brings TBH.

I would much rather a GM/president under react than over react. I am always of the mind that you buy low and sell high. You can’t get value for your assets when you have an injury plagued season. The only guys that had true value on trade market were White, Drummond and Caruso. Drummond is capable of 20/20 games, and the best we would have received was a 2nd round pick. Not worth it. Caruso has helped Coby go from worst defender on the team to average. He sets good example. Has been hitting his threes. I would need to be blown away by an offer to move him. White move would be idiotic. Demar is an expiring so we were never gonna get much for him via trade.


I think everyone’s expectations of what was possible was way out of touch. Barely any of the mock trades I saw bulls involved in would be smart moves.

I don’t want to watch a team that isn’t at least a top 4 team potential in the conference, but I would hate more to see a GM over react and completely botch any hope for future improvements.

The biggest mistake IMo for this trade deadline was not clearing more space under the tax threshold for possible waiver players. You know you need size. Trade a terry or Javon Carter. Javon seems expendable now that Coby has leveled up.

[MrSparkle]

More than anything, my mind is boggled as to how 5y into the job, it’s almost like AK’s tenure has been a parallel Pax universe.

Undersized defensive players: check

Over-relying on short-term over-the-hill vets with no plans to resign them (Antonio Davis, PJ, Othella, Piatkowski - Drummond, Craig, Beverley.. check)… Getting a little too attached to defensive role-players (Kirk/Caruso/Ayo.. check)… dumping the younger assets (Chandler/Lauri/Gafford/Wendell) for the old role-player (Wallace/Theis/Vuc)… hiring a stubborn coach who favors undersized defensive lineups with severe offensive handicaps… Big splash first year, stale/zero-creativity the next 3…

I mean, this team has basically been a spinning alt image of the 04-07 Bulls, right up to how our key young pieces have gotten injured during the hottest stretches (Deng’s broken wrist, Curry’s heart… Lonzo’s injury, Caruso and Pat’s broken wrists and other ailments).

Now that Lavine’s out the picture, I can’t say this team is softer. Caruso is a higher impact defender than Kirk was, Demar and Coby are more consistent and versatile offensive options than Gordon was, and Drummond/Vuc are better than Othella and a struggling Chandler. Year 2/3 Deng would’ve probably been the best player on this team, though… and I think we’re missing a Noc - a front-court bruiser with all-around skills. Craig is a very lite version of Noc.

I did like that team until they ran out of steam. I can’t say I dislike this current team. If Vuc were to find his 3P touch, I’d come around to accepting the aftermath of the regrettable events that kept him here. Demar is playing as well as a 35yo (short of a Lebron/Durant) could possibly play, and I think fans take him for granted. Rolling the dice on him past this year becomes dicey. I am hoping they S&T him if he doesn’t agree to a very short contract (honestly, $30m/1y would be my offer). I don’t mind keeping him cheap, but this team should’ve pivoted to picks and cap space last month, especially when it became apparent Coby turned the corner.

But the underwhelming draft picks, the lack of picks, the lack of back-end trades… And still, the horrible big-picture hindsight of moving multiple better assets for an overrated Vuc… I just don’t know what he plans to do with an injured $65m backcourt, getting ready to pay a 35yo more than his market value to keep him.

Difference is that the 05-07 squads were great defensively and showed plenty of heart and grit. This team has been questioned on all of that many times.

Well, not since Zach went down. Besides for Vuc being like Eddy Curry (minus the ability to “jump”, even if Skiles asked), the minus-Zach squad’s defense has been consistently solid. The only element that beats them is they’re WAY undersized when Drummond’s out and Billy played Ayo/Caruso in the front-court, but it seems he’s moving away from that.

Skiles had to trade his defense-for-offense liabilities as well (Curry vs Chandler, Gordon vs Duhon, playing smaller with Noc). Basically has superior offensive options- I think that 04/05 team would’ve loved a Demar.

But a better and healthier Pat and Craig would’ve helped a lot. If AK ever pickups a strong PF and C defender, and Vuc/Demar saw smaller minutes, we’d be top-5 defense IMO.