Image ImageImage Image

PG:AYO DOS TRES!

Moderators: HomoSapien, Michael Jackson, kulaz3000, dougthonus, Ice Man, Tommy Udo 6 , DASMACKDOWN, GimmeDat, Payt10, coldfish, RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper, fleet

sco
RealGM
Posts: 23,749
And1: 7,692
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Location: Virtually Everywhere!

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#61 » by sco » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:09 pm

FriedRise wrote:I also do think that Billy needs to be more strict with his rotations. I know it's probably tough to do when you want to have your best guys out there in a close game, but we need to start limiting Coby's minutes to keep him fresh.

That means we need to start trusting Jevon Carter more.

Whatever happens in those Carter minutes, you just gotta deal with (like we do with Drummond), but we can't keep playing Coby 40+ mpg and expect him to be effective.

I hear you and agree conceptually, but in reality what would they be "saving Coby" for? The playoffs? Cmon.
:clap:
madvillian
RealGM
Posts: 21,258
And1: 8,724
Joined: Dec 23, 2004
Location: Brooklyn

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#62 » by madvillian » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:15 pm

sco wrote:
FriedRise wrote:I also do think that Billy needs to be more strict with his rotations. I know it's probably tough to do when you want to have your best guys out there in a close game, but we need to start limiting Coby's minutes to keep him fresh.

That means we need to start trusting Jevon Carter more.

Whatever happens in those Carter minutes, you just gotta deal with (like we do with Drummond), but we can't keep playing Coby 40+ mpg and expect him to be effective.

I hear you and agree conceptually, but in reality what would they be "saving Coby" for? The playoffs? Cmon.


Yea just let White fight through the fatique. If he wants to be a lead guard and a 2nd option he's going to need the experience getting over the hump.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
Bulliever2020
Pro Prospect
Posts: 949
And1: 2,008
Joined: Jul 13, 2018
       

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#63 » by Bulliever2020 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:21 pm

madvillian wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
Bulliever2020 wrote:That stepback 3 to put us up 9 was an I'm here moment from Ayo. Looks like another stellar team friendly contract. Gotta give credit to AKME when it's due. Home run there.



In fairness Ayo kinda did it to himself by wanting to bet on himself and happened to re-up in a down year. He could still be on his rookie deal and be owed bigger money this offseason. It was AKME dumb luck.


It was 100% dumb luck. If they really thought Ayo was going to be a super backup at guard they would have had him as the primary backup instead of Carter to start the year. It only took a series of injuries and some poor play from Carter for a stretch to get him significant minutes. In Oct and Nov, Ayo was averaging like 18 minutes a game.


Now AKME is getting blamed for Billy's lineup decisions?? Lol. I'm no fan, but the AKME bias and hate has gotten out of control at this point.
RastaBull
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,816
And1: 2,599
Joined: Jul 16, 2010
         

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#64 » by RastaBull » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:21 pm

Bulliever2020 wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
Bulliever2020 wrote:That stepback 3 to put us up 9 was an I'm here moment from Ayo. Looks like another stellar team friendly contract. Gotta give credit to AKME when it's due. Home run there.



In fairness Ayo kinda did it to himself by wanting to bet on himself and happened to re-up in a down year. He could still be on his rookie deal and be owed bigger money this offseason. It was AKME dumb luck.


Completely disagree. Most here did not want to resign Ayo after his down year last season. AKME could have easily just let him walk after that but they saw what kind of kid he was and thought he would continue to work to get better and that down year was just a blip. Can not just chalk that up to dumb luck. That's like calling Coby's contract dumb luck as well. Lot of people here hate AKME enough that they refuse to give him any credit at all when making the right decision. And this is definitely one of those instances.


Yeah, those are both pretty legit moves by a Front Office ... especially considering they don't have much room to move with (that problem is one done to themselves largely).

I'd also point to some fringe moves of theirs that further highlight their appreciation for solid, NBA capable impact guys.
-With not much room to make moves in 2022, they signed Drummond and Dragic. Dragic was exciting for a minute, but then obviously flamed out. But Drummond, that was obviously a massive steal (his impact was solid last year but never in full favor of the coach ... somehow we got him to stick around on a minimum player option! and now we are seeing him at HIGH impact even with limited minutes).
-In 2023, again, still real limited financial room to make moves, they worked a lot of good moves. Ayo+Coby obviously tremendous impact that could be made outside the cap. But, like Drummond, the Torrey Craig signing was terrific! He could have gone a lot of places; I don't know if bunch of FO didn't see his value and AKME did, or if AKME made the right pitch, or if he just wanted Bulls regardless ... but that's another bottom of salary barrel vet signing that is an obvious hit. Jevon Carter is interesting ... really was feeling like he was burning out until last night. But I think it was a great swing to take because we should be able to get out of him what he did last night, and that is huge value.


Look, none of that makes up for the big misses (Vuc trade, LaVine extension). But there is strength there in the FO still. I remember the GarPax years and it felt like most every fringe signing was always a disappointment. Nothing wrong with acknowledging some silver linings.
Doctor Drain wrote:Can a butterfly sing?
madvillian
RealGM
Posts: 21,258
And1: 8,724
Joined: Dec 23, 2004
Location: Brooklyn

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#65 » by madvillian » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:25 pm

Bulliever2020 wrote:
madvillian wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:

In fairness Ayo kinda did it to himself by wanting to bet on himself and happened to re-up in a down year. He could still be on his rookie deal and be owed bigger money this offseason. It was AKME dumb luck.


It was 100% dumb luck. If they really thought Ayo was going to be a super backup at guard they would have had him as the primary backup instead of Carter to start the year. It only took a series of injuries and some poor play from Carter for a stretch to get him significant minutes. In Oct and Nov, Ayo was averaging like 18 minutes a game.


Now AKME is getting blamed for Billy's lineup decisions?? Lol. I'm no fan, but the AKME bias and hate has gotten out of control at this point.


In a smart org, the HC and the GM are on the same page with the roster. If you want to say they weren't, fine, but that's not great either.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
Bulliever2020
Pro Prospect
Posts: 949
And1: 2,008
Joined: Jul 13, 2018
       

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#66 » by Bulliever2020 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:30 pm

madvillian wrote:
Bulliever2020 wrote:
madvillian wrote:
It was 100% dumb luck. If they really thought Ayo was going to be a super backup at guard they would have had him as the primary backup instead of Carter to start the year. It only took a series of injuries and some poor play from Carter for a stretch to get him significant minutes. In Oct and Nov, Ayo was averaging like 18 minutes a game.


Now AKME is getting blamed for Billy's lineup decisions?? Lol. I'm no fan, but the AKME bias and hate has gotten out of control at this point.


In a smart org, the HC and the GM are on the same page with the roster. If you want to say they weren't, fine, but that's not great either.


I can guarantee you every coach in the NBA isn't running to the front office every time he wants to make a lineup change. Again, some fans here are just incapable of giving AKME any credit at all.
madvillian
RealGM
Posts: 21,258
And1: 8,724
Joined: Dec 23, 2004
Location: Brooklyn

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#67 » by madvillian » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:52 pm

Bulliever2020 wrote:
madvillian wrote:
Bulliever2020 wrote:
Now AKME is getting blamed for Billy's lineup decisions?? Lol. I'm no fan, but the AKME bias and hate has gotten out of control at this point.


In a smart org, the HC and the GM are on the same page with the roster. If you want to say they weren't, fine, but that's not great either.


I can guarantee you every coach in the NBA isn't running to the front office every time he wants to make a lineup change. Again, some fans here are just incapable of giving AKME any credit at all.


I'll give them credit for a nice 2nd round pick. Deck chairs on the Titanic...
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
_txchilibowl_
Starter
Posts: 2,114
And1: 2,186
Joined: Aug 17, 2017
     

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#68 » by _txchilibowl_ » Tue Feb 13, 2024 6:55 pm

This team stinks. No upside. Fire AKME. Blah blah blah....
User avatar
DuckIII
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 69,131
And1: 33,817
Joined: Nov 25, 2003
Location: On my high horse.
     

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#69 » by DuckIII » Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:24 pm

_txchilibowl_ wrote:This team stinks. No upside. Fire AKME. Blah blah blah....


Everyone’s negative opinions are wrong because we might make the play in with an old roster and just beat a crappy Hawks team that can’t defend a spherical Earth theory. Blah, blah, blah.
Once a pickle, never a cucumber again.
User avatar
Mk0
RealGM
Posts: 22,732
And1: 16,841
Joined: Jul 02, 2010
   

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#70 » by Mk0 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:45 pm

kulaz3000 wrote:
WookieOnRitalin wrote:My God the Hawks are horrible on defense.

I mean, horrendous. That cannot be overstated. Bulls are playing with nobody and they give up 136. What universe is this?


I'm actually quite surprised that they have been as bad as they have this season, because they aren't without talent, and I'm a pretty big fan of Quinn.

His hiring proves you can't fix Trae. He is who he is on both ends. He will never play off ball and he can't/won't defend.

The guy was 3-14 for 19 points. When he goes cold or has a long/speedy guard on him what else does he bring? Foul baiting?

As for the rest of the team? I have no idea. I really thought Snyder would fix that side of things, but right now Gobert looks like he really was the entire defensive system in Utah.
NBA officiating bought to you by FanDuel
_txchilibowl_
Starter
Posts: 2,114
And1: 2,186
Joined: Aug 17, 2017
     

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#71 » by _txchilibowl_ » Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:49 pm

DuckIII wrote:
_txchilibowl_ wrote:This team stinks. No upside. Fire AKME. Blah blah blah....


Everyone’s negative opinions are wrong because we might make the play in with an old roster and just beat a crappy Hawks team that can’t defend a spherical Earth theory. Blah, blah, blah.



It's just old, Duck. When the team wins it's not good enough. When the team loses it's affirmation.
Ice Man
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 25,103
And1: 13,769
Joined: Apr 19, 2011

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#72 » by Ice Man » Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:58 pm

Bulliever2020 wrote:Now AKME is getting blamed for Billy's lineup decisions?? Lol. I'm no fan, but the AKME bias and hate has gotten out of control at this point.


No worries, Billy gets blamed plenty for AKME's roster decisions, so it all evens out. Although strangely, with a terrible GM and a head coach who loses game after game because he doesn't understand the basics, the team is 21-14 over its past 35 games, even as it has been missing its highest-paid player.

I guess the team would be 32-3, something like that, with a better GM and coach.

Back to the game, it is funny how the Bulls crush Trae. Usually these "matchup winners" aren't reliable. It's like when Pau scored 42 or whatever against the Bucks and that was because it was a great matchup for him. Yeah right. Every other game against the Bucks, before and after, Pau was just normal Pau. But truly Trae just sucks and sucks against the Bulls. Even before Ayo was on the team.
sco
RealGM
Posts: 23,749
And1: 7,692
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Location: Virtually Everywhere!

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#73 » by sco » Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:04 pm

Ice Man wrote:
Bulliever2020 wrote:Now AKME is getting blamed for Billy's lineup decisions?? Lol. I'm no fan, but the AKME bias and hate has gotten out of control at this point.


No worries, Billy gets blamed plenty for AKME's roster decisions, so it all evens out. Although strangely, with a terrible GM and a head coach who loses game after game because he doesn't understand the basics, the team is 21-14 over its past 35 games, even as it has been missing its highest-paid player.

I guess the team would be 32-3, something like that, with a better GM and coach.

Back to the game, it is funny how the Bulls crush Trae. Usually these "matchup winners" aren't reliable. It's like when Pau scored 42 or whatever against the Bucks and that was because it was a great matchup for him. Yeah right. Every other game against the Bucks, before and after, Pau was just normal Pau. But truly Trae just sucks and sucks against the Bulls. Even before Ayo was on the team.

I still think Trae is a good player, but ever since the rules changed for guys making moves to bait fouls on offense, he has lost some luster. Honestly, same is true, to a lesser extent for Demar (who seemingly falls down as part of his shot follow-thru motion).
:clap:
User avatar
DuckIII
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 69,131
And1: 33,817
Joined: Nov 25, 2003
Location: On my high horse.
     

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#74 » by DuckIII » Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:07 pm

_txchilibowl_ wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
_txchilibowl_ wrote:This team stinks. No upside. Fire AKME. Blah blah blah....


Everyone’s negative opinions are wrong because we might make the play in with an old roster and just beat a crappy Hawks team that can’t defend a spherical Earth theory. Blah, blah, blah.



It's just old, Duck. When the team wins it's not good enough. When the team loses it's affirmation.


You just need to read different posters. Neither winning nor losing now means anything. So just read nihilists like me. We won’t crap on wins. We just won’t affix meaning to them. Either way.
Once a pickle, never a cucumber again.
madvillian
RealGM
Posts: 21,258
And1: 8,724
Joined: Dec 23, 2004
Location: Brooklyn

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#75 » by madvillian » Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:13 pm

DuckIII wrote:
_txchilibowl_ wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
Everyone’s negative opinions are wrong because we might make the play in with an old roster and just beat a crappy Hawks team that can’t defend a spherical Earth theory. Blah, blah, blah.



It's just old, Duck. When the team wins it's not good enough. When the team loses it's affirmation.


You just need to read different posters. Neither winning nor losing now means anything. So just read nihilists like me. We won’t crap on wins. We just won’t affix meaning to them. Either way.


I enjoyed the hell out of that win last night, watching Ayo go to work was a thing of beauty. That said, this morning it means nothing. Nothing less than like a 10 game winning streak will create the feeling that this team has moved out of that play in ceiling.

How many times over the last few seasons have we had a nice win over a fellow middling squad just to **** down our leg over the coming week? Countless times. It is the defining feature of a mediocre club.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
User avatar
ThisGuyFawkes
Analyst
Posts: 3,243
And1: 1,628
Joined: Jan 30, 2008
Location: Where the sugar cane grows taller than the God we once believed in
   

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#76 » by ThisGuyFawkes » Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:35 pm

Great game, was fun to watch. It feels like we're going through different phases this season. We had the horrible phase to begin the season. Then we went on a nice run when Coby got hot and Lavine was out. Now we're in this .500 phase where we win a game and then lose a game.

We need to figure out a way to go on another run, but it's going to be increasingly difficult with our remaining schedule. Basically I see the .500 phase continuing through the rest of the season and we'll be battling in the play-in tournament once again.
jnrjr79
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,434
And1: 2,499
Joined: May 27, 2003
Location: Chicago

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#77 » by jnrjr79 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:49 pm

madvillian wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
_txchilibowl_ wrote:

It's just old, Duck. When the team wins it's not good enough. When the team loses it's affirmation.


You just need to read different posters. Neither winning nor losing now means anything. So just read nihilists like me. We won’t crap on wins. We just won’t affix meaning to them. Either way.


I enjoyed the hell out of that win last night, watching Ayo go to work was a thing of beauty. That said, this morning it means nothing. Nothing less than like a 10 game winning streak will create the feeling that this team has moved out of that play in ceiling.

How many times over the last few seasons have we had a nice win over a fellow middling squad just to **** down our leg over the coming week? Countless times. It is the defining feature of a mediocre club.


We're at the point now where wins don't mean anything in terms of the overall trajectory of the season. It really seems too late for that. So, I'm just enjoying them on an individual basis, mostly to see Coby's continued development, but also Ayo as well. Watching some young guys take it to another level is my only point of interest now. I am not invested in whether the Bulls make the play-in tournament.
kodo
RealGM
Posts: 18,726
And1: 13,353
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
Location: Northshore Burbs
 

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#78 » by kodo » Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:49 pm

If we could go 50-50 over the next stretch, we should celebrate.

Cavs - Celtics - Pels - Pistons - Cavs - Bucks - Kings - Utah - GS - Clippers - Mavs - Pacers - Clippers.
jordanwilliams6
Analyst
Posts: 3,491
And1: 3,112
Joined: Nov 01, 2018
 

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#79 » by jordanwilliams6 » Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:08 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
jordanwilliams6 wrote:
RastaBull wrote:DeMar is 29/5.5/4 with 47%FG and 40%3P in 5 February games.

But really, just watch tonight and remember, any Bulls team that we have this year, next year, even year after next ... it's going to be a better team with DeMar than it would be without DeMar.

I actually like listening to opposing analysts lately because they often fawn over how professional DDR and how incredible a scorer he has been for 17 straight season. Refreshing to hear the man get his respect. He was amazing tonight; you can't win these games with a guy like DDR.

I'm entirely fine with keeping Demar because he seems like a positive influence and he's still a certified bucket scorer, especially in times we need it. He's always going to make life easier for the likes of Coby & Ayo. Any offseason plan needs to revolve around unloading Zach (and Lonzo) to free up cap room and moving Vuc for a modern day center.


Salary dumping Zach would be a mistake and don’t think they will do that. People take like is washed up. He’s not. Not sure what happens with Ball no one is gonna eat his contract so unloading without an asset attached or taking back an even worse contract so that won’t happen. I’d rather just let him expire than compound an already unfortunate situation.

I'm coming around to the idea that Zach is addition by subtraction. Despite being an elite scorer, he's just never been apart of a winning TEAM offense. Zach & Demar simply just don't fit and bringing him back means guys like Coby & Ayo have to take slightly reduced roles when the opposite should be occuring. It's not like we're having a difficult time scoring the ball either. In the last 11 games since Zach has been out, we're 9th in offensive rating and 11th in overall rating.
_txchilibowl_
Starter
Posts: 2,114
And1: 2,186
Joined: Aug 17, 2017
     

Re: PG:AYO DOS TRES! 

Post#80 » by _txchilibowl_ » Tue Feb 13, 2024 10:24 pm

DuckIII wrote:
_txchilibowl_ wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
Everyone’s negative opinions are wrong because we might make the play in with an old roster and just beat a crappy Hawks team that can’t defend a spherical Earth theory. Blah, blah, blah.



It's just old, Duck. When the team wins it's not good enough. When the team loses it's affirmation.


You just need to read different posters. Neither winning nor losing now means anything. So just read nihilists like me. We won’t crap on wins. We just won’t affix meaning to them. Either way.



I'm closer to nihilism than you might think. Sports was supposed to be my sanctuary from that lol.

Return to Chicago Bulls