RealGM

Stratmaster wrote:

Mk0 wrote:

DASMACKDOWN wrote:

Read on Twitter

Coby: Did I make the right play?
DDR: Yeah, he should have converted that
Coby: You sure? It went out of bounds. That had to be my bad, no way he doesn't score there if the pass is good.

watches the replay
re-watches the replay
re-re-watches the replay
re-re-re-watches the replay

I expect it was the opposite.

The pass was too hot, and too high, for a big cutting to the rim. He knows that, and Demar is explaining how and where he should have DROPPED a pass off.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Coby should have went to the basket to either score or get fouled. That pass was too hard and too risky. I don’t think Vuc even expected to get the ball there.

Coby tried to make the right play but needed to be a bit more selfish there. His teammates kept giving him the ball back for a reason, for him to take the shot.

Guru wrote:Vuc has had a double double in a ridiculous amount of games. Acting like he doesn't have values is just nonsense

He doesn’t do the things you really need from a non-star center. Carlos Boozer was double/double king too. Vuc is the center version of him. We love picking up bigs on the decline.

Stratmaster wrote:

2weekswithpay wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:Billy had to try his small ball lineup long enough to give up a lead.

Vuc sucked.

Some stupid turnovers.

Insisting on one player taking the last shot, whoever it is, is stupid and easy to defend. I would have loved to have seen a play ruin for a corner 3 from Ayo... using White, Vuc and DDR as decoys. But that's just me.

But all in all, a well played, horribly coached game.



Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

What small ball lineup? We had a center on the floor the entire game.

Defending the last shot when the other team needs a 3 is always pretty easy. It's even easier when the Bulls don't have any shooters. Like who would buy Vuc as a decoy?

Of course we had a center on the floor the whole game. 5 minute mark q2. Bulls up 46-31. Billy subs and goes with Vuc, Ayo, Coby, Caruso, Demar. Bulls get outscored 12-3.

And Coby, Demar Vuc wouldn't normally be the focus of the defense on the last play?

Pay attention.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Still don't see the issue. The Cavs didn't have both Allen and Mobley out there. Drummond came in with 9 minutes left in the 2nd. Do you expect Billy to play him the rest of the 2nd quarter and then start him in the 3rd? He can't play the double big lineup all game and without another backup 5, you can't throw out the lineup whenever you want.

The only player the defense should be worried about is Coby. Why would they pay attention to Vuc when they've been leaving him open all game? Demar is only good at 3s from the corners and Ayo only shoots spot-ups. Plus you only have 5 seconds left.

2weekswithpay wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:Billy had to try his small ball lineup long enough to give up a lead.

Vuc sucked.

Some stupid turnovers.

Insisting on one player taking the last shot, whoever it is, is stupid and easy to defend. I would have loved to have seen a play ruin for a corner 3 from Ayo... using White, Vuc and DDR as decoys. But that's just me.

But all in all, a well played, horribly coached game.



Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

What small ball lineup? We had a center on the floor the entire game.

Defending the last shot when the other team needs a 3 is always pretty easy. It's even easier when the Bulls don't have any shooters. Like who would buy Vuc as a decoy?

It’s small ball if you have a center and bunch of wings that don’t defend well inside or rebound.

Guru wrote:Vuc has had a double double in a ridiculous amount of games. Acting like he doesn't have values is just nonsense

Value as a starter who takes a bunch of shots isn’t his role anymore.

Red8911 wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:

Mk0 wrote:Coby: Did I make the right play?
DDR: Yeah, he should have converted that
Coby: You sure? It went out of bounds. That had to be my bad, no way he doesn't score there if the pass is good.

watches the replay
re-watches the replay
re-re-watches the replay
re-re-re-watches the replay

I expect it was the opposite.

The pass was too hot, and too high, for a big cutting to the rim. He knows that, and Demar is explaining how and where he should have DROPPED a pass off.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Coby should have went to the basket to either score or get fouled. That pass was too hard and too risky. I don’t think Vuc even expected to get the ball there.

Coby tried to make the right play but needed to be a bit more selfish there. His teammates kept giving him the ball back for a reason, for him to take the shot.

I don't disagree.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

WindyCityBorn wrote:

2weekswithpay wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:Billy had to try his small ball lineup long enough to give up a lead.

Vuc sucked.

Some stupid turnovers.

Insisting on one player taking the last shot, whoever it is, is stupid and easy to defend. I would have loved to have seen a play ruin for a corner 3 from Ayo... using White, Vuc and DDR as decoys. But that's just me.

But all in all, a well played, horribly coached game.



Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

What small ball lineup? We had a center on the floor the entire game.

Defending the last shot when the other team needs a 3 is always pretty easy. It's even easier when the Bulls don't have any shooters. Like who would buy Vuc as a decoy?

It’s small ball if you have a center and bunch of wings that don’t defend well inside or rebound.

Don't have many options and I don't see people asking for more Terry Taylor minutes.

WindyCityBorn wrote:

Guru wrote:Vuc has had a double double in a ridiculous amount of games. Acting like he doesn't have values is just nonsense

He doesn’t do the things you really need from a non-star center. Carlos Boozer was double/double king too. Vuc is the center version of him. We love picking up bigs on the decline.

Not really a good analogy. Bulls were the best W/L team in the league for 2 seasons with Boozer starting at PF.

Prime Bulls Booz would be great with Demar, Zach, Coby and Drum. That's likely a top 4 starting lineup in the East


Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

DASMACKDOWN wrote:

GoBlue72391 wrote:

Guru wrote:Vuc has had a double double in a ridiculous amount of games. Acting like he doesn't have values is just nonsense

As always, the one and only Vuc argument always resorts back to raw counting stats, because he has nothing else in his favor. Drummond gets an assload of double-doubles too and he's basically on a minimum contract.

Ive said this before but its basically Taj vs Boozer right now. You think in theory Boozer is better than Taj. Just basically boscore watching and the ppg or reb per game. But it was really clear when you watched the game, Taj was better than Boozer by that 3rd season.

That is where Drummond is right now. He is clearly better than Vooch right now. But people try to justify semantics like spacing.

Vuc might have been terrible in this game but he’s still the better center and starter on this team. Drummond does deserve more minutes though especially on games when Vuc struggles.

For Taj/Booz I thought Booz was more offensively talented between them two and Taj was the better high effort defender. It was a nice duo to have they complimented each other for that PF position with different strengths. In general though I thought Booz starting with Taj off the bench was the right call.

2weekswithpay wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:

2weekswithpay wrote:
What small ball lineup? We had a center on the floor the entire game.

Defending the last shot when the other team needs a 3 is always pretty easy. It's even easier when the Bulls don't have any shooters. Like who would buy Vuc as a decoy?

Of course we had a center on the floor the whole game. 5 minute mark q2. Bulls up 46-31. Billy subs and goes with Vuc, Ayo, Coby, Caruso, Demar. Bulls get outscored 12-3.

And Coby, Demar Vuc wouldn't normally be the focus of the defense on the last play?

Pay attention.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Still don't see the issue. The Cavs didn't have both Allen and Mobley out there. Drummond came in with 9 minutes left in the 2nd. Do you expect Billy to play him the rest of the 2nd quarter and then start him in the 3rd? He can't play the double big lineup all game and without another backup 5, you can't throw out the lineup whenever you want.

The only player the defense should be worried about is Coby. Why would they pay attention to Vuc when they've been leaving him open all game? Demar is only good at 3s from the corners and Ayo only shoots spot-ups. Plus you only have 5 seconds left.

I didn't say anything about a double big lineup. But when you get done picking the reason you are debating my point let me know.

Craig? Terry? Billy is getting paid millions of dollars to be an NBA head coach. I would think the least he could do is actually manage minutes and rotations to avoid 3 guards, Demar and Vuc.

You just made my point for me on the last play. Thanks for agreeing.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

WindyCityBorn wrote:

2weekswithpay wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:Billy had to try his small ball lineup long enough to give up a lead.

Vuc sucked.

Some stupid turnovers.

Insisting on one player taking the last shot, whoever it is, is stupid and easy to defend. I would have loved to have seen a play ruin for a corner 3 from Ayo... using White, Vuc and DDR as decoys. But that's just me.

But all in all, a well played, horribly coached game.



Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

What small ball lineup? We had a center on the floor the entire game.

Defending the last shot when the other team needs a 3 is always pretty easy. It's even easier when the Bulls don't have any shooters. Like who would buy Vuc as a decoy?

It’s small ball if you have a center and bunch of wings that don’t defend well inside or rebound.

Thank you.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Guru wrote:Vuc has had a double double in a ridiculous amount of games. Acting like he doesn't have values is just nonsense

This reminds me of when Westbrook was on the Lakers and he judged his play by how many triple-doubles he had.

2weekswithpay wrote:

Guru wrote:Vuc has had a double double in a ridiculous amount of games. Acting like he doesn't have values is just nonsense

This reminds me of when Westbrook was on the Lakers and he judged his play by how many triple-doubles he had.

Westbrook didn't have value?

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Stratmaster wrote:

WindyCityBorn wrote:

Guru wrote:Vuc has had a double double in a ridiculous amount of games. Acting like he doesn't have values is just nonsense

He doesn’t do the things you really need from a non-star center. Carlos Boozer was double/double king too. Vuc is the center version of him. We love picking up bigs on the decline.

Not really a good analogy. Bulls were the best W/L team in the league for 2 seasons with Boozer starting at PF.

Prime Booz would be great with Demar, Zach, Coby and Drum. That's likely a top 4 starting lineup in the East


Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Boozer was not in his prime here and got outplayed by Taj Gibson a lot during that time. We was similar like Vuc, but more like efficient. Averaged like 17/10, but generally left you frustrated and was considered a weak link.

And just like Vuc he never made another all-star team after joining the Bulls.

Stratmaster wrote:

WindyCityBorn wrote:

Guru wrote:Vuc has had a double double in a ridiculous amount of games. Acting like he doesn't have values is just nonsense

He doesn’t do the things you really need from a non-star center. Carlos Boozer was double/double king too. Vuc is the center version of him. We love picking up bigs on the decline.

Not really a good analogy. Bulls were the best W/L team in the league for 2 seasons with Boozer starting at PF.

Prime Booz would be great with Demar, Zach, Coby and Drum. That's likely a top 4 starting lineup in the East


Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Booz was very good for the bulls, I never understood the hate.

Gasol too, even though he came later in his career I consider him the best offensive center the bulls ever had. Such high iq, incredible player, I enjoyed watching him play. But just because his defense was weaker once again got lack of respect from Bulls fans.

If one of AK's goals with building this roster was to find a 7 foot tall player who can shoot well from three...well...he already had one on the roster when he got the job.

Or was it Vucevics passing that intrigued him?

On that last possession turnover, after rewatching it, I think that's not the best decision by Coby making that pass. Vuc clearly didn't expect it. To be fair, it's usually Demar in those situation, so everybody is still figuring out Coby in that situation. Coby still has a lot to work to as a closer, both IQ and mental wise.

Despite Vuc probably not the sole to blame on that turnover, he's mostly bad throughout the game. He's still a 20-10 guy, but his efficiency continue to decline with age. I think the right idea of high impact aging center is somebody like Marc Gasol. You can't rely on and don't really need a 33 year old Vuc putting up 20-10 in your team.

Dan Z wrote:If one of AK's goals with building this roster was to find a 7 foot tall player who can shoot well from three...well...he already had one on the roster when he got the job.

Or was it Vucevics passing that intrigued him?

They definitely saw Vuc as their Jokic lite as the hub C.

The pass was Coby was clearly too hot but there would have been plenty of players that would have made a tough catch.

It's all semantics anyway. Vuc was the reason we lost. I mean 4-16 and 1-5 from a C is almost unforgivable. Dude is a negative player and costs us more games than not.

Vucevic is 11th on the team in TS% at 53%.
Alex/Ayo: 61%+
Drummond/Derozan/Lavine/Coby: 57%-58%
Patrick/Torrey/Taylor: 55%
Vuc: 53%

Vuc is 1st on the team in FGA/36 minutes.
Vucevic: 16.5
Derozan: 15.9
White: 15.0

Taking the (almost) worst scorer on your team and coaching your team to have him take the most shots per minute of play is a big reason why we're still a terrible offense despite all three of Coby, Ayo, and Caruso massively upgrading their offensive game.

Vuc can't help that he's aging and now a liability. All he can do is do the best that he can when thrown in there. Whoever is making to decision to play him 40 minutes deserves the blame on this more than Vuc.