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sco wrote:

HomoSapien wrote:

DuckIII wrote:
I don’t think it’s clear that he’ll be in the league in 3 years. It’s not clear he won’t be, either. But has not shown me anywhere near enough to just assume he’ll stick.

I don't think anyone here is super high on him, but I think he theoretically has promising aspects:

1. His enthusiasm/energy.
2. Defensive potential.
3. Rebounding potential for a wing.
4. Vision.

Again, he's so far away from being a contributor that all these "strengths" are very much theoretical, but I think he has shown flashes in the few instances that he's gotten minutes.

This reads like my college frat brother's description of his sister that he wanted to fix me up with:

1. Great personality
2. Amazing fashion sense
3. Very smart
4. Doesn't need to wear her glasses

damn, he really didn't try to oversell her

Guru wrote:Your hate for Vuc is so delusional. Clouds all your posts.

Which part? The part that Vuc is a below average shooter? The numbers bare that out. He's 35% on nearly exclusively wide open jumpers. That is below average. When you watched the game, teams left Vuc wide open. They didn't close out on him. They were not scared of him.

There's plenty of evidence that Vuc is a sub-starter caliber player now. It's not going to get better as he gets even slower.

I think they should’ve drafted javon liberty-freeman or a 6’10 PF

Not at all NBA level...and i'm not seeing it in the future either...i'll take Ayo and JFL over Terry any day of the week

IMO, for Terry to actually develop a useful game, it could make all the difference if the Bulls actually pick a lane for this kid. Either develop him as a PG/Point Forward - primary ball handler or have him play off-ball. Again, IMO, he would benefit greatly by learning to play either with or without the ball in his hands. I think when guys are trained to go to their spot and be ready to shoot, it has beneficial results in their 3pt development - otherwise, they seem to develop the "look around before you shoot" habit. Similarly, learning what are good passes and how to pass guys open, and how to read defenses are skills that take time to develop. On the one hand, if he could become a catch and shoot guy with his defensive game, it would be more beneficial to the team's current needs. On the other hand, his vision and passing seem to be his greatest strengths on offense, but the path to minutes in that role is hard to see.

Terry is a scrub no amount of training will make him a great player or a decent combo sg/pg.

I am sure coach Billy D understands this.

Charlesareed wrote:I think they should’ve drafted javon liberty-freeman or a 6’10 PF

Well they got Freeman-Liberty without drafting him so that's kind of a weird thing to wish for in hindsight.

JimmyButler21 wrote:

Read on Twitter

He hasn't looked good, that's for sure, but I'm not going to overreact too much because he didn't look nearly this bad in actual NBA games. He actually flashed a bit during his time at the NBA level. Likely has a lot to do with the role he's playing but even so, this is an unacceptable level of play against fringe NBA talent.

you can find a MUCH better player in any FA Min ou Buyout market every single year...

Jujuba69 wrote:you can find a MUCH better player in any FA Min ou Buyout market every single year...

this is true of most players on rookie contracts

drosestruts wrote:

Jujuba69 wrote:you can find a MUCH better player in any FA Min ou Buyout market every single year...

this is true of most players on rookie contracts

to expand on this further, here's the last 10 players drafted 18th overall

2022 - Dalen Terry
2021 - Tre Mann
2020 - Josh Green
2019 - Goga Bitadze
2018 - Lonnie Walker
2017 - TJ Leaf
2016 - Henry Ellenson
2015 - Sam Dekker
2014 - Tyler Ennis
2013 - Shane Larkin

Half these guys aren't even in the league anymore.

4 of them are still on rookie contracts.

Lonnie Walker signed for $2mm this offseason on a 1-year deal.

Your expectations for an 18th pick might be too high

Yeah.

Or my expectations for Dalen Terry at 18th pick might be too low.

I'm willing to give Terry some slack despite his horrible SL shooting. He was playing with a broken nose which may have him distracted going to the rim. When I watched him during his brief stretches with the real team last season, he looked good enough. His defense was already above average against those guys and he wasn't bad scoring at the rim...either finishing or through drawing contact and getting to the line. Realistically, he's a defensive specialist and fifth option on offense. Moreover, he is the sort of guy who can have the role of advancing the ball up the court, but not run the offense in the half court.

I think he's an average 3pt shot away from being a rotation level guy. He's a worker and I don't bet against those guys. Add to that we have a new shooting coach. I'm not sure he gets to that point this season, but I'd take the bet he gets there next season.

drosestruts wrote:

drosestruts wrote:

Jujuba69 wrote:you can find a MUCH better player in any FA Min ou Buyout market every single year...

this is true of most players on rookie contracts

to expand on this further, here's the last 10 players drafted 18th overall

2022 - Dalen Terry
2021 - Tre Mann
2020 - Josh Green
2019 - Goga Bitadze
2018 - Lonnie Walker
2017 - TJ Leaf
2016 - Henry Ellenson
2015 - Sam Dekker
2014 - Tyler Ennis
2013 - Shane Larkin

Half these guys aren't even in the league anymore.

4 of them are still on rookie contracts.

Lonnie Walker signed for $2mm this offseason on a 1-year deal.

Your expectations for an 18th pick might be too high

All drafts are unique. The only way to look at a specific pick in a specific draft is to look at who was drafted relatively closely after the pick being discussed.

drosestruts wrote:

Jujuba69 wrote:you can find a MUCH better player in any FA Min ou Buyout market every single year...

this is true of most players on rookie contracts

Absolutely. Yet strangely they're mostly irrationally overvalued and mistakenly categorized as value contracts.

I'd be 100% fine with declining his 3rd year option.

DuckIII wrote:

drosestruts wrote:

drosestruts wrote:
this is true of most players on rookie contracts

to expand on this further, here's the last 10 players drafted 18th overall

2022 - Dalen Terry
2021 - Tre Mann
2020 - Josh Green
2019 - Goga Bitadze
2018 - Lonnie Walker
2017 - TJ Leaf
2016 - Henry Ellenson
2015 - Sam Dekker
2014 - Tyler Ennis
2013 - Shane Larkin

Half these guys aren't even in the league anymore.

4 of them are still on rookie contracts.

Lonnie Walker signed for $2mm this offseason on a 1-year deal.

Your expectations for an 18th pick might be too high

All drafts are unique. The only way to look at a specific pick in a specific draft is to look at who was drafted relatively closely after the pick being discussed.

I think another good way to judge the typical value of pick X is to see how good the Xth best guy in any given draft is. So if you're talking the #18 pick, just look for how good the 18th best player from a given draft class is in retrospect. And the answer is, the 18th best player in most drafts is a worthless, marginal nba player.

League Circles wrote:

DuckIII wrote:

drosestruts wrote:
to expand on this further, here's the last 10 players drafted 18th overall

2022 - Dalen Terry
2021 - Tre Mann
2020 - Josh Green
2019 - Goga Bitadze
2018 - Lonnie Walker
2017 - TJ Leaf
2016 - Henry Ellenson
2015 - Sam Dekker
2014 - Tyler Ennis
2013 - Shane Larkin

Half these guys aren't even in the league anymore.

4 of them are still on rookie contracts.

Lonnie Walker signed for $2mm this offseason on a 1-year deal.

Your expectations for an 18th pick might be too high

All drafts are unique. The only way to look at a specific pick in a specific draft is to look at who was drafted relatively closely after the pick being discussed.

I think another good way to judge the typical value of pick X is to see how good the Xth best guy in any given draft is. So if you're talking the #18 pick, just look for how good the 18th best player from a given draft class is in retrospect. And the answer is, the 18th best player in most drafts is a worthless, marginal nba player.

What you are talking about is that generally speaking spread out among all drafts, you should not expect much from an 18th pick because a whole lot of them don’t make it at all. And you are definitely correct about that. Indeed it’s why I don’t care at all when the Bulls trade or even sell second round picks.

But that isn’t what I was talking about. if you are evaluating whether X player should have been taken by X team at X pick in X draft, the larger database is utterly irrelevant. The only comparables are the players you could have taken in that exact draft, but didn’t.

I don’t see anyone saying “18th picks are usually good so Terry should be too, but he’s not.” I see people saying Terry looks like maybe was a bad pick in this draft. Those are two completely different things.

drosestruts wrote:

Jujuba69 wrote:you can find a MUCH better player in any FA Min ou Buyout market every single year...

this is true of most players on rookie contracts

Of the players that make it, that's probably not true by the time season 2 is over. Dalen's clock is definitely ticking.

I still think he's an NBA level talent just not ready for rotation minutes from what he's shown. At this point I think he's in trouble because Phillips, JFL seem to have passed him up in summer league and the Bulls still have Terry Taylor, Justine Lewis and Carlik Jones who they have kept around and have seen enough that they did not send any of them to the summer league.

That says to me come training camp, what those last 11-15 roster spots for the lesser sized contracts are going to sort themselves out and if Terry doesn't show more than he has there are guys poised to pass him up for those spots. He could find himself traded to a rebuilding team for a veteran on a short contract