PG: TNT Bulls are back?

[Ice Man]

Yea I'm not seeing this is some great Raptors team post trades.

I mean, people were just bored, looking to make more of the deal that it was really was. The trade was a 4th option for a couple of 5th options. Now the Siakam deal, that was pretty big.

[madvillian]

Yea I'm not seeing this is some great Raptors team post trades.

I mean, people were just bored, looking to make more of the deal that it was really was. The trade was a 4th option for a couple of 5th options. Now the Siakam deal, that was pretty big.

3 FRP is a pretty good deal for a guy that's expiring. You'd think we could have done a similar deal for Vuc over the last two seasons. But, continuity.

[Guru]

My biggest frustration....and I get frustrations at Lavine-Vuc-Coaching.....but by far......mine is an inability to find your man on defense. It's like basic high school fundamentals. How many times did they score because we just had nobody on guys?

[madvillian]

My biggest frustration....and I get frustrations at Lavine-Vuc-Coaching.....but by far......mine is an inability to find your man on defense. It's like basic high school fundamentals. How many times did they score because we just had nobody on guys?

The metrics say we are OK defensively but this year not only are we just a mediocre pace team (like last year) we're literally last in the league. We play so damn slow that we should be elite defensively if that's how we're going to construct our team. But our half court defense is mediocre at best and often times when the mid 3 are all out there together it's worse than mediocre, it's just bad.

All starts with having Vuc and Demar as C and PF, or AC, who is not nearly as effective trying to guard guys with 3 inches and 30 lbs on him. We'll never be anything other than mediocre as long as Demar and Vuc are playing 70 minutes a night, most of them together.

[Ice Man]

See, I take the opposite view. Our 3 mids aren't noted for their defense, nor is Coby. Sure, Caruso is a tiger and Pat is looking very good too, but overall it's hard to say that our defensive talent is outstanding. But the Bulls are 15th in the league in points conceded per possession, which is a pace-adjusted stat.

But we're 22nd offensively, even though that is supposed to be the strength of our highest-paid guys.

[Guru]

See, I take the opposite view. Our 3 mids aren't noted for their defense, nor is Coby. Sure, Caruso is a tiger and Pat is looking very good too, but overall it's hard to say that our defensive talent is outstanding. But the Bulls are 15th in the league in points conceded per possession, which is a pace-adjusted stat.

But we're 22nd offensively, even though that is supposed to be the strength of our highest-paid guys.

Thats baffling to me.

My biggest frustrations are
1-Laziness or IQ on d
2-Lack of movement on offense
3-Not having a second rebounder anywhere near the basket when we shoot

[madvillian]

See, I take the opposite view. Our 3 mids aren't noted for their defense, nor is Coby. Sure, Caruso is a tiger and Pat is looking very good too, but overall it's hard to say that our defensive talent is outstanding. But the Bulls are 15th in the league in points conceded per possession, which is a pace-adjusted stat.

But we're 22nd offensively, even though that is supposed to be the strength of our highest-paid guys.

Well yea, but if we're playing the most half court defense of any team, and we're not going to generate easy shots in transition or semi transition -- the same applies on defense. The crux of the argument is does the slow pace hurt our offense more than it helps our defense?

Probably, given we're 23rd in PPP on offense and 15th on defense. We're still getting outscored in aggregate, and we're still basically a 35-40 win team.

It's just a flawed team, from the top to the bottom.

[Guru]

Zach Lowe just posted something about why we are so bad at off-ball defense.....and then it disappeared. Does anyone find it?

[DuckIII]

PS: Eye-rollgate is stupid. Let’s even assume he did roll his eyes a little after a boss told him something. OH MY GOD!!!! It’s nothing. It happens in every NBA game on every bench.

The unemployment rate in this country would be roughly 98.2% if eye-rolling at your boss occasionally were a deal-breaker.

The 1.8% employed would be the bosses.

[Ccwatercraft]

I heard Zach scratched his butt when we were down by 2 in the 4th. Clearly he hates Michael Jordan, Chicago, and the spirit of Taj Gibson. I also blame him for the arctic storm.

Pretty much. It is getting ridiculous.

I don’t know about that. I heard he also hates deep dish, polish sausage, and puppies.

Puts ketchup on his dog's too

[Wingy]

Puts ketchup on his dog's too

I actually do that. Prefer both ketchup and mustard actually, and usually not a big mustard guy.

[BloodyQ]

The end of games are still just Demar Iso's.....I mean what the hell seriously.....

[madvillian]

Puts ketchup on his dog's too

I actually do that. Prefer both ketchup and mustard actually, and usually not a big mustard guy.

isn't this a plotline joke in the 1st season of the Bear? Like chef doesn't bring ketchup to the kids' party and Richie is like "it's kids and hotdogs, they are gonna want ketchup"?

[jordanwilliams6]

The end of games are still just Demar Iso's.....I mean what the hell seriously.....

To be fair, Coby received the ball in the final couple of minutes and made both his shots so it was better balance.

A Demar ISO is crunch time is acceptable every now and again but it’s when it becomes literally every possession for the final 6 minutes that we break down.

[FriedRise]

Puts ketchup on his dog's too

I actually do that. Prefer both ketchup and mustard actually, and usually not a big mustard guy.

100% ketchup on hot dog too here. Hate mustard on anything.

[Wingy]

100% ketchup on hot dog too here. Hate mustard on anything.

Dogs (and I don’t eat that many dogs), and rarely on a sandwich, but yeah - typically mustard’s not my favorite.

[Bandit King]

Still didn't stop sir Charles from dissing us on tv!!

[WindyCityBorn]

Still didn't stop sir Charles from dissing us on tv!!

Anyone with common sense knows we shouldn’t be trying to keep this failed experiment going. They only looking to trade Zach because he asked for it. They are content to keep to Vuc and DeMar to extend our mediocrity and they don’t care as long as they get paid and get to take 15 to 20 shots a night!

[WookieOnRitalin]

You can't just "dump" guys

Contrary to what some may believe it's not exactly a ton of expiring contracts floating all over the place. You start to "dump" guys you add other salary with what could possibly be worst players. And since your dumping your not getting great draft compensation. At best you would just be trading our problems for another teams problem and for what? Just to say you did something? Nothing gives the impression that lavine nor derozan, are somehow cancers to the team especially derozan who everyone here loves as a teammate.

I don't mind trades I just want them to make sense and seriously improve us. I never want to settle into a idea that we have to just move guys for the sake of moving them. Other teams would love this but it does no good for us in the long term.

Of course you can. Just figure out what it will cost and move along.

There is a massive difference between being a "cancer" and being a "loser". Lavine is the latter, not the former as I have been claiming for five consecutive years now. You cannot invest that much capital into a player that does not shift the win column. Zach is what Zach is and the team should leave it at that.

Derozan is in his late 30s. The likelihood for his continued success is not likely statistically no matter how much he is "liked" or not. His expiring is a very attractive commodity on the market that if needed to make a move happen can and will be utilized.

A shift must happen because this franchise is not going anywhere with the roster as it currently sits.

[weneeda2guard]

You can't just "dump" guys

Contrary to what some may believe it's not exactly a ton of expiring contracts floating all over the place. You start to "dump" guys you add other salary with what could possibly be worst players. And since your dumping your not getting great draft compensation. At best you would just be trading our problems for another teams problem and for what? Just to say you did something? Nothing gives the impression that lavine nor derozan, are somehow cancers to the team especially derozan who everyone here loves as a teammate.

I don't mind trades I just want them to make sense and seriously improve us. I never want to settle into a idea that we have to just move guys for the sake of moving them. Other teams would love this but it does no good for us in the long term.

Of course you can. Just figure out what it will cost and move along.

There is a massive difference between being a "cancer" and being a "loser". Lavine is the latter, not the former as I have been claiming for five consecutive years now. You cannot invest that much capital into a player that does not shift the win column. Zach is what Zach is and the team should leave it at that.

Derozan is in his late 30s. The likelihood for his continued success is not likely statistically no matter how much he is "liked" or not. His expiring is a very attractive commodity on the market that if needed to make a move happen can and will be utilized.

A shift must happen because this franchise is not going anywhere with the roster as it currently sits.

Your changing the complexity of the discussion. Your post is still arguing for them to be traded. I'm fine with them being traded. We agree there. My issue is simply dumping them and taking anything back for them. There are returns that can hurt us even more

Derozan is an expiring you dump him for long term money and a player no better than Derozan that is a bad deal. You dump lavine for salary matches you basically will have roster spots filled , guys who can't contribute to winning and still won't have the flexibility to make other moves. We are better with lavine gone, but we are still just a middle of the pack team. We still have to think about seasons going forward and who can help compliment coby ayo and pwill if we moving forward with them. Can't just move guys to move them. Some added depth at center, a couple wing defenders who can hit the 3. Maybe a couple athletic wings that can run with coby on a break. And a couple draft picks wouldn't hurt. Point is akme just can't dump guys for poor return it could hurt us in the long term. Think you hate lavine or derozan? Wait till we have 3 or 4 guys on the roster eating up minutes even worst then them. Wait til a injury happens and those bad players we picked up just to match salary have to play significant minutes.