Is Dalen Terry an NBA level player?

[sco]

This thread is insane. He could start on the right team. Sure his scoring needs help but there is only one basketball. We don't need him to score to have an impact.

You're so toxically positive that you somehow construe people encouraging a player to work on his weaknesses and improve as somehow being negative.

the thread title is "Is he an NBA level player"

So to your point, I'm saying "NO". It comes down to how one thinks about "NBA level player". So let me put 2 tests out there for folks to consider:

Are there 30 worse NBA players? I think the answer there is no.

Is he better than the best 10 g-league players? I think the answer there is no also.

[Guru]

The argument is not that he is better than Javonte Green. Is that he is an NBA player.

If you are not better than a guy who is in street clothes because no one wants you, then it's pretty hard do make the argument that he is an NBA player that could start on some teams.

He is a perfectly fine end of the rotation player RIGHT NOW. and that puts him as 9-10 on a 15-18 man roster. What in the wide world of sports are we talking about?

End of rotation guys are generally guys who are unique specialists or guys you hope grow into useful players later. Terry is not a unique specialist, and if he grows into a player later, it will likely be a vet min style defensive specialist. He's on the roster only because his contract is guaranteed.

If you had scorers at the 1-2 and 4-5 you could easily get away with having a guy like Terry play D and help the offense move at the 3. Would I want that? No....but teams do it all the time. Thabo Sfolosha started 475 games in his career. Is it ideal....No....Can you do it if the other positions are offensive focused....absolutely..there is only 1 ball.

Thabo Sefolosha is probably a reasonable comparison for Terry's upside, but Thabo was much better, but his floor is absolutely "doesn't belong in the league". If this was his game at the age of 26, he'd be a G-Leaguer.

Is your argument that if a veteran signs to a team and then plays over any player that those other players are not NBA level talent?

[Guru]

You're so toxically positive that you somehow construe people encouraging a player to work on his weaknesses and improve as somehow being negative.

the thread title is "Is he an NBA level player"

So to your point, I'm saying "NO". It comes down to how one thinks about "NBA level player". So let me put 2 tests out there for folks to consider:

Are there 30 worse NBA players? I think the answer there is no.

Is he better than the best 10 g-league players? I think the answer there is no also.

This is absurd. You think he is the 15th-18th best player on 30 rosters in the NBA?

[DuckIII]

This thread is insane. He could start on the right team. Sure his scoring needs help but there is only one basketball. We don't need him to score to have an impact.

You're so toxically positive that you somehow construe people encouraging a player to work on his weaknesses and improve as somehow being negative.

the thread title is "Is he an NBA level player"

And I think within the thread for the most part people believe he has the tools to remain one subject to some meaningful improvements. But guys like him don’t survive their rookie contracts all the time. All the time. And he probably has a tougher battle than most in the numbers game because nobody “needs” what he has. That doesn’t mean he can’t add value, just that it’s extremely ordinary and replaceable value.

And maybe more importantly he’s entering the NBA at the pinnacle of the 3-D wing era. Prospects and NBA vets alike are training themselves for this specific and marketable role on a global scale and there is nothing about his body type within this group that is unique. On the contrary, his physical attributes are below average on the whole for this type of role.

It’s fair to discuss it. He has a tough row to hoe.

[dougthonus]

Is your argument that if a veteran signs to a team and then plays over any player that those other players are not NBA level talent?

Under the circumstances where the veteran was in the G-League the whole year, available to anyone, but unwanted, yes.

Or to restate it this way:

If you are demonstratively worse than guys not in the league, you are not presently an NBA talent and on the roster only on the hope you develop into one later or because you are on a contract they can't get rid of. Dalen Terry is probably in the first boat. It will be interesting to see if we pick up his option next year. I wouldn't have picked it up this year.

[greenl]

I think the answer is still "no".

[League Circles]

I haven't watched a lot of him, but definitely liked his defense and ball handling when I have. He could pretty plausibly improve to be a solid rotation role player focusing on defense, ball handling and passing, but so far he's not good enough to commit a contract to for a team that is mediocre, capped out, and has quite a few players at his position(s) that are much more worthy of commitment.

Completely agree dependent on what that contract is. I think they drafted a 6-9th man for what they thought was a very good team. He could have filled that role well with upside. When asked to do more offensively he has struggled. He's will be 22 in the offseason. Still young. He is well worth his contract in 2024-25 that has already been exercised.

They have until 10/31 to exercise his 2025 deal for 5.3. I think that's a no brainer. Then it gets murky

I agree it's a no brainer for his 4th year option - they should for sure decline it. He's at best a vet minimum impact guy right now, and a roster hold is only like 1 million, so he has the potential to cost us 4 mil in cap space in a summer when we should still be looking to possibly make a real signing. That's of more value (towards an impact player) than his low likelihood of being an impact guy at some point. He's getting his chance now and not doing much.

If we're able to shed some summer 2025 money (some or all of Zach, Vuc, Carter, Terry), and Terry isn't looking a lot better and we can't trade him, I'd decline but still give him a shot to contribute next season for the option that's already been picked up. If we haven't moved anyone and it's looking like we won't be cap space players in summer 2025 anyway, then the threshold is lower for him - I'd probably keep him and pick up his 4th year option. But the more he limits our flexibility options, the more he has to improve before October for me to pick up that option.

[Guru]

Is your argument that if a veteran signs to a team and then plays over any player that those other players are not NBA level talent?

Under the circumstances where the veteran was in the G-League the whole year, available to anyone, but unwanted, yes.

Or to restate it this way:

If you are demonstratively worse than guys not in the league, you are not presently an NBA talent and on the roster only on the hope you develop into one later or because you are on a contract they can't get rid of. Dalen Terry is probably in the first boat. It will be interesting to see if we pick up his option next year. I wouldn't have picked it up this year.

It's painful to talk with you. You just keep moving nonsensical goal posts.

Clearly there are veteran players that can make an impact that are not on rosters even still. It's why players are being signed.

You think you are so right about the team being bad that you can't imagine anything but a tear down.

[dougthonus]

It's painful to talk with you.

Don't insult people in your conversations with them.

You just keep moving nonsensical goal posts.

If anything, I have moved them closer, by making your very broad point more specific. I do not think that any time a vet comes in that it means a bunch of the players are trash, but I think that is probably the case when:
1: That vet was available all year and cut from another NBA team that has no depth that could use a rotation player in preseason
2: That vet is in his prime
3: That vet played at the same level he has previously played at and showed no new abilities / skills

I also specified that it doesn't mean that such a player deserves a roster spot over players he is better than 100% of the time. It can be the case they hope a guy like Terry will improve later, but as it stands right now, he's worse than a guy who is fringe talent.

These goalposts were created by you, not me, I was responding to your question in specificity, I didn't initiate it or take the conversation in that direction.

Clearly there are veteran players that can make an impact that are not on rosters even still. It's why players are being signed.

There aren't a lot of guys who fit the above situation being signed. Who else do you think fits in that category that is being signed? If so, which players on those teams do you think are clearly NBA players but worse than the guy being signed?

You think you are so right about the team being bad that you can't imagine anything but a tear down.

Did you just accuse me of moving goal posts? I said nothing about tearing the team down or saying they were bad. I said Dalen Terry is bad.

[CROBulls]

Sadly as long NBA teams give him NBA contract he is gonna be NBA level player. At least on paper. 29 sucker GM's to go.

[DuckIII]

Sadly as long NBA teams give him NBA contract he is gonna be NBA level player. At least on paper. 29 sucker GM's to go.

It would be comforting to believe every NBA team has a GM as stupid as ours.

[Michael Jackson]

I can say for sure that Jalen Terry on DePaul is not a NBA level player.

[hurrikayne2001]

This thread is insane. He could start on the right team. Sure his scoring needs help but there is only one basketball. We don't need him to score to have an impact.

Who could? Dalen Terry?? What team?

A G-League team/

[hurrikayne2001]

The argument is not that he is better than Javonte Green. Is that he is an NBA player.

If you are not better than a guy who is in street clothes because no one wants you, then it's pretty hard do make the argument that he is an NBA player that could start on some teams.

He is a perfectly fine end of the rotation player RIGHT NOW. and that puts him as 9-10 on a 15-18 man roster. What in the wide world of sports are we talking about?

End of rotation guys are generally guys who are unique specialists or guys you hope grow into useful players later. Terry is not a unique specialist, and if he grows into a player later, it will likely be a vet min style defensive specialist. He's on the roster only because his contract is guaranteed.

If you had scorers at the 1-2 and 4-5 you could easily get away with having a guy like Terry play D and help the offense move at the 3. Would I want that? No....but teams do it all the time. Thabo Sfolosha started 475 games in his career. Is it ideal....No....Can you do it if the other positions are offensive focused....absolutely..there is only 1 ball.

Thabo Sefolosha is probably a reasonable comparison for Terry's upside, but Thabo was much better, but his floor is absolutely "doesn't belong in the league". If this was his game at the age of 26, he'd be a G-Leaguer.

Thank you. I don't know what that guy is smoking, but I don't want none of it.

[MrSparkle]

Dalen got a chance this year, and demonstrated he should’ve definitely not been a FRP.

As far as points go, AK should essentially be fired. He’s whiffed 3/4 picks (and I’m willing to bet he whiffs the next - it’s a no-win draft position barre a miracle), he bombed the Vuc trade, bombed the Gafford trade, bombed the Lauri trade, bombed the Zach situation… and probably will hold Demar/Caruso way too long to their expiration as useless assets.

[kodo]

I think he would have been an acceptable gamble at his expected draft position, 25-30 or maybe top of the 2nd round. In some ways this is the same situation as Patrick. Gamble on Patrick where he was supposed to go at 15, you're probably fine. He's a decent defender, great 3P%. At #4? Disappointing.

Getting Terry as a defensive roleplayer at 25 and hope maybe he can get a 3P shot? Probably fine. Drafting him a few spots after Jalen Williams, Jalen Duren, and Tari Eason? Ouch. I guess this is a less of a criticism of the pick and more that tanking a lost season for a few more draft spots can matter a ton in the NBA.

Small sample size, but AK seems to reach more for lower guys because they fit his profile. But really it's been proven again & again, you should draft BPA not for fit.

[sco]

I think he would have been an acceptable gamble at his expected draft position, 25-30 or maybe top of the 2nd round. In some ways this is the same situation as Patrick. Gamble on Patrick where he was supposed to go at 15, you're probably fine. He's a decent defender, great 3P%. At #4? Disappointing.

Getting Terry as a defensive roleplayer at 25 and hope maybe he can get a 3P shot? Probably fine. Drafting him a few spots after Jalen Williams, Jalen Duren, and Tari Eason? Ouch. I guess this is a less of a criticism of the pick and more that tanking a lost season for a few more draft spots can matter a ton in the NBA.

Small sample size, but AK seems to reach more for lower guys because they fit his profile. But really it's been proven again & again, you should draft BPA not for fit.

It was a bad pick, but I do think that when you are out of the lottery, there is less obvious player differential so that BPA becomes much harder to compare guys with incomplete packages of shooting, defense, athleticism, etc. I.e. Give Terry a 40% 3pt shot and he becomes indistinguishable from PWill, but he's failed to progress there where guys like Ball were able to make big strides there. It has to be hard to make that call.

[Chi town]

Dude just ain’t it.

Not even close.

Some guys just can’t shoot or learn to shoot.
He’s that guy.

[TheSuzerain]

Dalen got a chance this year, and demonstrated he should’ve definitely not been a FRP.

As far as points go, AK should essentially be fired. He’s whiffed 3/4 picks (and I’m willing to bet he whiffs the next - it’s a no-win draft position barre a miracle), he bombed the Vuc trade, bombed the Gafford trade, bombed the Lauri trade, bombed the Zach situation… and probably will hold Demar/Caruso way too long to their expiration as useless assets.

Of course he should be fired.

More realistically I hope he's simply not allowed to trade future picks or make any long term signings. Basically on probation. This is of course only something a bad organization would do but probably the best we can hope for.

[DuckIII]

Dude just ain’t it.

Not even close.

Some guys just can’t shoot or learn to shoot.
He’s that guy.

Its not even just his shooting. The rest of it isn’t anything special by NBA standards either. It’s just that unlike the shooting, he doesn’t outright suck at the rest of it.