Is Dalen Terry an NBA level player?

[drosestruts]

When we drafted Terry my primary reaction was "who?" So I don't disagree or take any umbrage with your lack of enthusiasm about Terry as the pick.

In terms of his archetype I agree Terry has the energy/hustle player aesthetic associated with guys like Green and Harrison. I think those comparisons do miss what make Terry a little unique and different though and that is his vision/passing.

And while a dreadful shooting performance has been the primary takeaway from summer league so far, Terry for as much as he's been handling the ball is doing very well limiting the turnover. He had 0 turnovers in the second game vs Memphis in 30 minutes of playing time. Game 1 vs Toronto he had that highlight more than half court pass for an assist. This is the uniqueness in Terry.

He has that energy archetype like a Harrison or Green but with strong natural vision/passing skills. If he improves his handle and shot and can limit those turnover, I think you have a pretty unique player. One I think would be more accurate to compare to a George Hill, Delon Wright, or do I dare say Lonzo Ball, in terms of ceiling.

Maybe that makes you look at Terry differently, maybe it makes you roll your eyes.

Hill and Lonzo can shoot though, which is why I put the emphasis on shooting. If anything, Lonzo has proven anyone can learn how to shoot if they put in the time/work/focus, but someone should have already been drilling in his head that he needs to do that, but that gets back to a different hot topic point of mine is that literally every player in the league should spend 2 hours a day just practicing threes with a focus on only release speed and accuracy. I think probably anyone in the world could be a solid NBA shooter if you put up 1000 shots a day with that focus.

I'm not sure how valuable a non-PG hustle player that can also pass really is though. It probably helps some, but it's just not that meaningful a skill to add if you never have to defend the guy at the three point line and he's certainly no where near a PG caliber ball handler/passer.

It's like a nice to have, it's just so far down the list of nice to haves that it isn't super useful unless the shooting or dribble-drive game also comes with it, but there's really no evidence of that, and while I agree on paper he seems like a better passer than a typical 3&D player, it just isn't a stud level ability there.

Agreed his shooting needs to improve. He shot 40% from 3 on 3 attempts per game in the G-league last year which is up from his college shooting numbers, so I think it's clearly been a point of emphasis in his training, and not something that needs to be "drilled in his head" - all signs point to him understand that and have been actively working on that.

Also I'm not really sure why Dalen can't be a point guard, and think we have different concerns about his handles and ability to limit turnovers.

I mentioned the most recent Summer League game - 30 minutes, 0 turnovers, was primarily playing point guard from what I've read or seen in highlights (did not watch the game itself).

Rather hard to find much film online on Terry due to his limited minutes but this game vs Milwaukee also stood out to me:

Watch on YouTube

The points scored don't really stand out to me, some of that's just outhustling the team with the lead.

What I did like though is that in his 27 minutes he had 0 turnovers, and you can see multiple clips where he's being guarded by Jrue Holiday, Jevon Carter, or Wes Matthews. These are good defenders, and Terry's handles we're an issue or something easily exploitable by again, these very well regarded defenders.

And I like the passes, good find and cross-court pass to Zach. I liked the quick post-feed to Vuc, and the drive and kick to Vuc.

Or even if he just plays as a 3&d guy - again 40% in the g-league last year - that can be a connector/good passer, there's value there.

[Dan Z]

I think this is some pretty big revisionist history on Butler here. Butler's one of my favorite players, I was rooting for Miami throughout the entire playoffs because of him.

But he barely played his rookie season, and it's not like he didn't play early but started earning minutes later. In the last month of his rookie season Bulls had 13 games, he didn't appear at all in 4 of them, played under 2-minutes in 5 others.

He played 4 total minutes in the playoffs that year.

Butler was not in anyway a day-1 contributor

Fair enough, I was thinking of Butler's 2nd year in my head and not his 1st year.

Back to Dalen Terry. I think paying $1.5mm over the vet min on a young player with upside is a worthy gamble. I feel like this logic of "a vet min player can offer more" applies to a shockingly large amount of rookies, but it's an argument I feel you've only ever voiced in regards to Terry.

That is probably true and is more reflective of my pre-draft opinion of Terry being a terrible selection and nothing occurring in the past year to shift my view on it.

I think there's also a sense of keeping a happy locker room. Dalen Terry is young and probably more accepting of a more developmental role on a team. I agree DJJ and Green (but especially DJJ who I really like and in my eyes is still plenty young) will be better in 2023-24, but where are their minutes coming from if they signed here? Our top-9 is pretty set

Injuries happen, you should definitely look to go deeper than 9 deep. At the minimum, people are often looking to stay in the league as much as get minutes, but you will definitely get better minimum players with minutes to offer, so a DJJ/Javonte may not come without a defined role, that said, I think our PFs are Pat/Craig, and there is definitely an opportunity to beat out Craig at PF.

I feel like you're placing undue emphasis and scrutiny on a contract $1.5mm over the vet min, and on a player likely to be 12-15 in the rotation.

I'm not sure what team out there has 15 playable, positive contributing players.

Dalen Terry and his role on the Bulls is simply not unique and worthy of such harsh judgment and standards.

My problem is really not the contract, my problem is that I don't perceive any upside in Terry actually working out into a meaningful player ever. Ultimately, I guess it really just comes down to the fact that I would not have drafted him. Maybe this take will look ridiculously dumb in 2 years though.

Like a guy who was uber athletic but could do nothing right now or a guy with uber size but could do nothing right now or a guy who had a unique skill that maybe you want to utilize occasionally and see how you can hide his flaws (typically elite shooters) all have obvious paths to me to become useful players.

My perception is that Terry's path to me to become a useful player is that after putting in 4 years you have the next Javonte Green or Shaq Harrison, whom you can have right now in a better developed state on a cheaper contract anyway.

He isn't the archtype of a good player, this is why I started with "if his shooting hasn't improved" and that the Bulls may know more about this. If he's never going to be a shooter, he's never going to be more than a vet min player, and given he's had a year to work on shooting, and it's a skill that doesn't require a lot of minutes, I would like to have seen very serious development along those lines to feel confident that he will make the necessary improvements to be better than Javonte Green one day.

But I think you are right that I'm overly harsh due to my pre-draft level of enthusiasm for the pick and what we have seen to date.

Good point. If Terry maxes out as a player on the level of Javonte Green or Shaq Harrison then what was the point in drafting and developing him for years?

Maybe that means the Bulls would get a role player for cheap...? The team can already do that.

Hopefully he does better than that. I don't want to get down on him, but he has a long way to go. I used Anfernee Simons as an example of how I'd like to see him develop (different type of skills though). Simons was a late pick that took a few years to get where he is now.

[Michael Jackson]

When we drafted Terry my primary reaction was "who?" So I don't disagree or take any umbrage with your lack of enthusiasm about Terry as the pick.

In terms of his archetype I agree Terry has the energy/hustle player aesthetic associated with guys like Green and Harrison. I think those comparisons do miss what make Terry a little unique and different though and that is his vision/passing.

And while a dreadful shooting performance has been the primary takeaway from summer league so far, Terry for as much as he's been handling the ball is doing very well limiting the turnover. He had 0 turnovers in the second game vs Memphis in 30 minutes of playing time. Game 1 vs Toronto he had that highlight more than half court pass for an assist. This is the uniqueness in Terry.

He has that energy archetype like a Harrison or Green but with strong natural vision/passing skills. If he improves his handle and shot and can limit those turnover, I think you have a pretty unique player. One I think would be more accurate to compare to a George Hill, Delon Wright, or do I dare say Lonzo Ball, in terms of ceiling.

Maybe that makes you look at Terry differently, maybe it makes you roll your eyes.

Hill and Lonzo can shoot though, which is why I put the emphasis on shooting. If anything, Lonzo has proven anyone can learn how to shoot if they put in the time/work/focus, but someone should have already been drilling in his head that he needs to do that, but that gets back to a different hot topic point of mine is that literally every player in the league should spend 2 hours a day just practicing threes with a focus on only release speed and accuracy. I think probably anyone in the world could be a solid NBA shooter if you put up 1000 shots a day with that focus.

I'm not sure how valuable a non-PG hustle player that can also pass really is though. It probably helps some, but it's just not that meaningful a skill to add if you never have to defend the guy at the three point line and he's certainly no where near a PG caliber ball handler/passer.

It's like a nice to have, it's just so far down the list of nice to haves that it isn't super useful unless the shooting or dribble-drive game also comes with it, but there's really no evidence of that, and while I agree on paper he seems like a better passer than a typical 3&D player, it just isn't a stud level ability there.

I agree with a lot of what you say, I feel the same way but I also think you give him the year, even though the fact that Shaq or Green or DJJ are all better. I don't see much ceiling, but in a way Dollar Tree Ben Simmons is what he is but there is something there

[dougthonus]

I agree with a lot of what you say, I feel the same way but I also think you give him the year, even though the fact that Shaq or Green or DJJ are all better. I don't see much ceiling, but in a way Dollar Tree Ben Simmons is what he is but there is something there

I view this as something I don't feel real strongly about. It isn't a big deal to keep him around and should be done based on what the coaching staff and front office feels about his upside. In a sense, I wasn't a fan of the pick, but if he is showing well in practice, then no big deal. There is very little risk. It's just hard to see much reward either.

[Axl Rose]

Butler was locking up Carmelo his rookie year. I think he was ready to be a contributor right off. If i remember right it was Deng getting injured that forced Thibs to play him his 2nd year and he showed he was more than ready.

Thibs became obsessed with him after that - 48min in a preseason game

[Michael Jackson]

I agree with a lot of what you say, I feel the same way but I also think you give him the year, even though the fact that Shaq or Green or DJJ are all better. I don't see much ceiling, but in a way Dollar Tree Ben Simmons is what he is but there is something there

I view this as something I don't feel real strongly about. It isn't a big deal to keep him around and should be done based on what the coaching staff and front office feels about his upside. In a sense, I wasn't a fan of the pick, but if he is showing well in practice, then no big deal. There is very little risk. It's just hard to see much reward either.

I highly doubt the reward and was not a big fan of the pick either. Like the kids energy (even if annoying and acts like a sugared up child but...) he is worth the look at this point. Marko was not Terry at least shows NBA level hustle and he does see the court well even if he is always out of control himself. Maybe (<10%) blossoms, it is better than most of what we have. We cut him suddenly Riley picks him up and he gets a 4/100 contract lol.

[Michael Jackson]

Butler was locking up Carmelo his rookie year. I think he was ready to be a contributor right off. If i remember right it was Deng getting injured that forced Thibs to play him his 2nd year and he showed he was more than ready.

Thibs became obsessed with him after that - 48min in a preseason game

Butler also was a much more mature player. He was like Wade IIRC at Marquette both had a similar story etc... Terry was young and RAW and hard to tell. Wade and Butler were older (as was MJ but different era but winning a NCAA championship game was huge) just a different era.

I am still not sold on Terry. I think AKME are too obsessed with "energy" guys which is a plus for sure, and at that pick in a weak draft well why not but they like a certain type of player and hmmmm.. I like it too in theory but I am just a poster on RealGM

[WindyCityBorn]

Too early to saw. He is very raw, but some to be a good player. I’d don’t have any crazy expectations for him, but I think he can play a long time if he can definitely develop a reliable jumper.

[Dan Z]

I agree with a lot of what you say, I feel the same way but I also think you give him the year, even though the fact that Shaq or Green or DJJ are all better. I don't see much ceiling, but in a way Dollar Tree Ben Simmons is what he is but there is something there

I view this as something I don't feel real strongly about. It isn't a big deal to keep him around and should be done based on what the coaching staff and front office feels about his upside. In a sense, I wasn't a fan of the pick, but if he is showing well in practice, then no big deal. There is very little risk. It's just hard to see much reward either.

What do you think of Julian Phillips? I have no idea what to think of him so far, but I wouldn't be surprised if he fell into the same situation that Terry is in (little to no playing time at the NBA level...not ready yet...some time in the G League).

[SHO'NUFF]

Of course hes an NBA level player..... but there are many NBA level players who aren't very good compared to the average.

[MikeDC]

Of course hes an NBA level player..... but there are many NBA level players who aren't very good compared to the average.

Its true. Half of NBA players are below average.

[Bandit King]

He is all world g league mvp

[Guru]

This thread tells you everything you need to know about the Bulls fan base if not the NBA in general.

[HomoSapien]

Are we differentiating between being an NBA-level player and a rotation player? I think those are two different things personally. He's good enough to be in the NBA, but I think he's a year away from being a rotation player.

[Dan Z]

Are we differentiating between being an NBA-level player and a rotation player? I think those are two different things personally. He's good enough to be in the NBA, but I think he's a year away from being a rotation player.

If he's not in the rotation is he much of an NBA player?

I just wanted to hear what everyone had to say about his potential and where they think he might be in the near future.

[Polynice4Pippen]

Who knows, he's stuck with an organization that has no plan whatsoever for what they wanna do.

[DuckIII]

Are we differentiating between being an NBA-level player and a rotation player? I think those are two different things personally. He's good enough to be in the NBA, but I think he's a year away from being a rotation player.

I don’t think it’s clear that he’ll be in the league in 3 years. It’s not clear he won’t be, either. But has not shown me anywhere near enough to just assume he’ll stick.

[HomoSapien]

Are we differentiating between being an NBA-level player and a rotation player? I think those are two different things personally. He's good enough to be in the NBA, but I think he's a year away from being a rotation player.

I don’t think it’s clear that he’ll be in the league in 3 years. It’s not clear he won’t be, either. But has not shown me anywhere near enough to just assume he’ll stick.

I don't think anyone here is super high on him, but I think he theoretically has promising aspects:

1. His enthusiasm/energy.
2. Defensive potential.
3. Rebounding potential for a wing.
4. Vision.

Again, he's so far away from being a contributor that all these "strengths" are very much theoretical, but I think he has shown flashes in the few instances that he's gotten minutes.

[Hangtime84]

Are we differentiating between being an NBA-level player and a rotation player? I think those are two different things personally. He's good enough to be in the NBA, but I think he's a year away from being a rotation player.

If he's not in the rotation is he much of an NBA player?

I just wanted to hear what everyone had to say about his potential and where they think he might be in the near future.

unfortunately that's kinda been the wave of the NBA draft young 19 year olds and hope they can contribute if not they can potentially become low rotational players on a cheap contract.

First two to 3 years of players on any decent team is typically end of bench rotations look at the warriors and their young picks.

[Dan Z]

Are we differentiating between being an NBA-level player and a rotation player? I think those are two different things personally. He's good enough to be in the NBA, but I think he's a year away from being a rotation player.

If he's not in the rotation is he much of an NBA player?

I just wanted to hear what everyone had to say about his potential and where they think he might be in the near future.

unfortunately that's kinda been the wave of the NBA draft young 19 year olds and hope they can contribute if not they can potentially become low rotational players on a cheap contract.

First two to 3 years of players on any decent team is typically end of bench rotations look at the warriors and their young picks.

That's true, but even the Warriors have given some playing time to their young players to see what they have in them.

Kuminga and Moody got more playing time than Terry did his rookie season and I'd bet they continue to play more than him going forward. And that's on a winning team with vets in front of them in the rotation.