Losing will be a blessing in disguise

[aguifs]

From where we are, playing 50% ball will be terrible.

The earlier we go down big, the better. If we start next season with Lavine, the next time we try to trade him, we'll get peanuts and doritos

[coldfish]

I thought about making a separate thread but I'll just dump it here.

The Bulls are screwed. They are functionally just buying time. Between's Lonzo's contract and the missing firsts, Chicago just doesn't have much to try to change things up.

Personally, I think they should trade Lavine and just go in the toilet. It seems they kind of agree and tested the waters on that. Given the epic haul Portland just got for Dame, I kind of wonder if AKME was asking for too much.

The only real hope here is that Patrick and Coby jump up and the new role players create an interesting team. Its possible. That's what AKME is now banking on. The upside here is limited but at least watchable.

[SfBull]

I thought about making a separate thread but I'll just dump it here.

The Bulls are screwed. They are functionally just buying time. Between's Lonzo's contract and the missing firsts, Chicago just doesn't have much to try to change things up.

Personally, I think they should trade Lavine and just go in the toilet. It seems they kind of agree and tested the waters on that. Given the epic haul Portland just got for Dame, I kind of wonder if AKME was asking for too much.

The only real hope here is that Patrick and Coby jump up and the new role players create an interesting team. Its possible. That's what AKME is now banking on. The upside here is limited but at least watchable.

I wouldn´t count on big jumps from Coby or Pat .We´re screwed for the next 3 years at least and it will be worse if extending DeMar for continuity.

[kodo]

EC is insane right now. 4 of the top 5 net rating teams in the league were all EC last year (DEN #1 in the WC was only #6 overall) and the East just got a lot tougher. Bulls got to 40 wins by playing 50/50 against teams like Milwaukee & Boston, I don't see that happening anymore. Some of the bottom teams will be better as well, like Indiana.

Bulls need to bail on playoffs and rebuild.

[aguifs]

My biggest concern is our most valuable asset... Lavine. He was traded 100 times. We'll end up losing him for nothing.

50% ball till February, you hit reset. The more we try to buy time, man... it's risky

[burlydee]

I have no faith in the front office or ownership to put together a coherent vision and execute it. Losing won't be good. It will just be losing. Since this franchise lost MJ and then Rose they have basically done nothing. There is no vision that doesn't involve this franchise lucking into a top 3 player. Over this team. Over this franchise.

[SfBull]

EC is insane right now. 4 of the top 5 net rating teams in the league were all EC last year (DEN #1 in the WC was only #6 overall) and the East just got a lot tougher. Bulls got to 40 wins by playing 50/50 against teams like Milwaukee & Boston, I don't see that happening anymore. Some of the bottom teams will be better as well, like Indiana.

Bulls need to bail on playoffs and rebuild.

That´s why we´d need another FO,AK is too compromised about keeping Zach,DeMar and Vuc, waiting for big improvement from Caby and Pat eventually adding good role players like Carter and Craig will build a contender next seasons.But AK will likey stay where he is.

[coldfish]

EC is insane right now. 4 of the top 5 net rating teams in the league were all EC last year (DEN #1 in the WC was only #6 overall) and the East just got a lot tougher. Bulls got to 40 wins by playing 50/50 against teams like Milwaukee & Boston, I don't see that happening anymore. Some of the bottom teams will be better as well, like Indiana.

Bulls need to bail on playoffs and rebuild.

I agree. The Bulls are basically hoping for a conference wide rash of injuries that doesn't hit them in order to be anything other than a play in team. Night in and night out, its going to be a struggle and the lower echelon teams are going to be able to beat Chicago when they aren't shooting well.

[Charlesareed]

Last trade deadline was the time to blow it up Zach ddr & vouc should’ve been traded for the best package and rebuild the team too late now they screwed themselves smh ac traded aswell since he has value this franchise will never ever learn

[Bandit King]

Don't worry the power of friendship will save us!

This according to Ak on 670thescore.

[MrSparkle]

I don't really think it matters. It's apparent that the FO doesn't love Zach. If a good trade comes around, they'll make it regardless of the team's performance. If not, then you just keep a guy who shoots 3Ps very well, scores 25 PPG on a bad leg, and makes much less than the current and future max contract. That's all that matters, IMHO. I don't love Zach, but it's apparent he isn't a core piece who can win games, but he's also not chopped liver. Too many GMs get in this fallacy of deciding their mediocre #1 option should be sent for a stale potato chip, when it's consistently made sense to sit and wait for the diamond package to come around. Some team will be desperate enough at one point or another to add an athletic 3P scoring option.

East is going to return to being the less competitive conference. Top-4: Bucks, Celtics, Cavs, Sixers. But I expect Boston regresses -- I question that Porzingis trade, Horford's age is at bake-point, and Smart probably provided more than any box score or bad offensive decision suggested (toughness, getting on guys' to compete, and defensive chemistry). Philly has the big Harden issue to sort (though as long Embiid plays, they're elite). On that note, Bucks got a superstar PG, but they also lost a lot of defensive toughness (incl. that injury-disher POS Grayson Allen), so it'll be interesting to see how they pan out (honestly - I side on that pair being pretty unstoppable, barre health). Cavs got better , though they paid a steep price.

Then there's parity. Miami downgraded by losing Strus and Vincent. Knicks, Hawks, Raptors, Nets, Pacers and Magic are all talented enough for a 4 seed, but we'll have to see how their chemistry and health plays out. Of course there will be 1-2 of these teas that hit the ground running, and the others will see their ups and downs. Bulls are in this big mix. Like the last 2 years, IMHO it'll come down to the Bulls beating themselves. They have a roster that should (in theory) secure a #4 seed, but if Zach plays like crap for 3 months, Pat is still figuring out whether he prefers delivering flowers or making millions of dollars playing basketball, Coby can't deliver a consistent 3-ball, and the starting line-up can't defend the paint to save its life, then yes - we'll be bad, early.

I tend to think we're due for a more clear picture this year. Last year, it was mediocrity with effort. That's my least favorite NBA team. Coby, Ayo and Pat were trying, and just looking like bad, overwhelmed, undersized kids. If they have any semblance of confidence, play like there's nothing to lose, with less pressure and no expectations, I can't begin to think how much better we'd be. Too many times I saw these guys out of plays or bricking wide open 3Ps. To think that we'll have seasoned vets taking their minutes, just makes me think that we win atleast 50% of those clutch losses... Which would've actually been +10 wins last season (50-win season).

Wizards, Pistons, Hornets are likely fishing for lotto balls, but they do have young talent, so they won't be totally walkable, but at the same time you have to imagine they're not in the picture.

I have low expectations for the team... But it can still swing both ways. As I've said a number of times, the Lonzo injury kind of closed the window on this squad. You just can't recover from something like that. Like Hayward/Celtics, Hill/Magic, Rose/Bulls... You tread water and wait until that contract is complete or movable. Intentionally tanking would've been a brash decision, and it hasn't helped that it took over a year to just figure out he needed another surgery, another year. It's been an ambiguous tough decision, and it put the Bulls' 3rd best player and a significant salary in limbo.

[ImSlower]

Aguifs is probably at the far low end of the bell curve of Bulls fan optimism, but I'm honestly not too far off. I don't see any of our young guys becoming all-stars ever, and our Mid 3 are exactly what we've seen them to be. I expect 11th in the East.

I loathe tanking with the flattened draft odds, but I do wish we'd managed to trade off DDR for someone with upside. I guessed 38 wins this season and I'm still right about there - though of course injury affects the NBA possibly more than any American team sport and who knows what team's stars may go down. We had exceptional luck with health last year. Getting some value out of any of our three guys, none of whom I see any future playoff noise with, would be a win in my book.

I don't think the Bulls will be relevant for years, unless someone takes a true step up. LaVine goes insane all season and also tries harder on D. Or DDR magically becomes a shooter and distributor instead of a ball-stopper. Vucevic stops disappearing for games at a time. Williams actually comes out on the court angry, or focused, or confident, or whatever the hell his brain needs to bring out the potential most Bulls fans see in him (I don't, sorry guys). Coby's arms grow out beyond T-Rex length.

We certainly need a major stroke of good luck, be it one of those guys indeed becoming much better than 22-23, or a clear Bulls win in trade. Apologies for the morose attitude, friends, both your Cubs and my Cardinals are utter disappointments as the baseball season ends and it has me sports cranky today.

[pipfan]

I think we could easily be a big surprise, and approach 50 wins
But, even if that happens, we should blow it up. We are not competing with Milw and the others, no way.

Probable outcome, 8 seed, 43 wins

[aguifs]

Think about Lavine's mindset entering the season. The guy was in every single trade talk. Damn, I wouldn't be surprised he brings the F mode on.

The fo talking about friendship and sh * t. This roster is in a circumstantially dysfunctional environment. Only a miracle to save this mess

[SfBull]

I think we could easily be a big surprise, and approach 50 wins
But, even if that happens, we should blow it up. We are not competing with Milw and the others, no way.

Probable outcome, 8 seed, 43 wins

This and a Play in loss or 1st round exit.

[vxmike]

There’s no better time to trade Zach and Demar. They’re coming off solid healthy seasons. Do it now before Zach gets hurt again or Demar starts to look old.

[Dan Z]

I thought about making a separate thread but I'll just dump it here.

The Bulls are screwed. They are functionally just buying time. Between's Lonzo's contract and the missing firsts, Chicago just doesn't have much to try to change things up.

Personally, I think they should trade Lavine and just go in the toilet. It seems they kind of agree and tested the waters on that. Given the epic haul Portland just got for Dame, I kind of wonder if AKME was asking for too much.

The only real hope here is that Patrick and Coby jump up and the new role players create an interesting team. Its possible. That's what AKME is now banking on. The upside here is limited but at least watchable.

I wouldn´t count on big jumps from Coby or Pat .We´re screwed for the next 3 years at least and it will be worse if extending DeMar for continuity.

DDR's contract extension will say a lot about the future of this team. If they sign him to a big contract, for a good amount of years, then they're lock into this core for awhile.

Hopefully AKME wait until after the season before they re-sign him. That way they can better evaluate the team as a whole. Or if the team isn't doing well at the deadline then they should consider trading him and moving on (which would surprise me...I doubt they do it).

[Dan Z]

I don't really think it matters. It's apparent that the FO doesn't love Zach. If a good trade comes around, they'll make it regardless of the team's performance. If not, then you just keep a guy who shoots 3Ps very well, scores 25 PPG on a bad leg, and makes much less than the current and future max contract. That's all that matters, IMHO. I don't love Zach, but it's apparent he isn't a core piece who can win games, but he's also not chopped liver. Too many GMs get in this fallacy of deciding their mediocre #1 option should be sent for a stale potato chip, when it's consistently made sense to sit and wait for the diamond package to come around. Some team will be desperate enough at one point or another to add an athletic 3P scoring option.

East is going to return to being the less competitive conference. Top-4: Bucks, Celtics, Cavs, Sixers. But I expect Boston regresses -- I question that Porzingis trade, Horford's age is at bake-point, and Smart probably provided more than any box score or bad offensive decision suggested (toughness, getting on guys' to compete, and defensive chemistry). Philly has the big Harden issue to sort (though as long Embiid plays, they're elite). On that note, Bucks got a superstar PG, but they also lost a lot of defensive toughness (incl. that injury-disher POS Grayson Allen), so it'll be interesting to see how they pan out (honestly - I side on that pair being pretty unstoppable, barre health). Cavs got better , though they paid a steep price.

Then there's parity. Miami downgraded by losing Strus and Vincent. Knicks, Hawks, Raptors, Nets, Pacers and Magic are all talented enough for a 4 seed, but we'll have to see how their chemistry and health plays out. Of course there will be 1-2 of these teas that hit the ground running, and the others will see their ups and downs. Bulls are in this big mix. Like the last 2 years, IMHO it'll come down to the Bulls beating themselves. They have a roster that should (in theory) secure a #4 seed, but if Zach plays like crap for 3 months, Pat is still figuring out whether he prefers delivering flowers or making millions of dollars playing basketball, Coby can't deliver a consistent 3-ball, and the starting line-up can't defend the paint to save its life, then yes - we'll be bad, early.

I tend to think we're due for a more clear picture this year. Last year, it was mediocrity with effort. That's my least favorite NBA team. Coby, Ayo and Pat were trying, and just looking like bad, overwhelmed, undersized kids. If they have any semblance of confidence, play like there's nothing to lose, with less pressure and no expectations, I can't begin to think how much better we'd be. Too many times I saw these guys out of plays or bricking wide open 3Ps. To think that we'll have seasoned vets taking their minutes, just makes me think that we win atleast 50% of those clutch losses... Which would've actually been +10 wins last season (50-win season).

Wizards, Pistons, Hornets are likely fishing for lotto balls, but they do have young talent, so they won't be totally walkable, but at the same time you have to imagine they're not in the picture.

I have low expectations for the team... But it can still swing both ways. As I've said a number of times, the Lonzo injury kind of closed the window on this squad. You just can't recover from something like that. Like Hayward/Celtics, Hill/Magic, Rose/Bulls... You tread water and wait until that contract is complete or movable. Intentionally tanking would've been a brash decision, and it hasn't helped that it took over a year to just figure out he needed another surgery, another year. It's been an ambiguous tough decision, and it put the Bulls' 3rd best player and a significant salary in limbo.

Which team do you think will be desperate to add Zach? When I go down the list I don't see many that could potentially be in that situation. But I do agree with you that they shouldn't trade him for peanuts.

Depending on what happens this season I do think they should consider rebuilding and if they trade Zach for an okay, but not ideal, package that's okay. Sometimes it's good to move on and try something new. This roster is limited and, while there is an outside chance of a surprise season, I don't think the team will go very far.

[PaKii94]

The time to lose was last year's trade deadline. We were tied for 6th worst record in the league. A sell off and we would have been in the Wemby sweepstakes.

Portland tanked and were able to get scoot as a consolation prize. Bulls decided to make a foolish end of season push and it ended up with nothing to show for after the playin loss to Miami. Just not smart asset management.

[sco]

AK has zero interest in losing and will trade everything in the bank to make the playoffs. I just think he feels (rightly so) that his job doesn't survive a rebuild at this point. He shot his load and needs to pray for a miracle to be more than a playin team.