Vuc needs to go too

[kodo]

dunno if this has been posted. Big part of our defensive struggles

Yeah we're 30th in the league in P&R defense on the rollman. I've given up on the FO trading Vuc though. Just need to figure out how to defend 5 on 4.

[Hangtime84]

dunno if this has been posted. Big part of our defensive struggles

Yeah we're 30th in the league in P&R defense on the rollman. I've given up on the FO trading Vuc though. Just need to figure out how to defend 5 on 4.

Considering 90% of offensive schemes start have PnR action that’s horrible

[MikeDC]

dunno if this has been posted. Big part of our defensive struggles

Yeah we're 30th in the league in P&R defense on the rollman. I've given up on the FO trading Vuc though. Just need to figure out how to defend 5 on 4.

A team can sometimes defend 5 on 4 but not if the missing guy is the center of the defense.

[PaKii94]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Hangtime84]

Read on Twitter

?s=20

I see what you did there

[sco]

The Cavs game just reinforced my view that Vuc is ONLY a bumslayer. He's here and on a hard-to-move contract. I know Billy caters to the high contract guys, but the right move (playing Drummond with the starters and Vuc when opponent C's sit) seems obvious.

Vuc is fine against lesser talent. Let's let him feast there. I wouldn't even mind keeping him as a symbolic starter to keep his ego in tact, but he's not good against any half-decent rim protecting big and his defense is bad.

[ChettheJet]

Again with the fickle one game makes a career decision. Vuc was just fine scoring 26 points in a win over ATL but he scores 9 in a loss and he's dirt. They got trounced in points in the paint, would have made a difference, It happened obviously late where Vuc got position and sealed his man behind him in the lane 6 feet from the basket , DeRozan had the ball at the top of the key and big shock, drove the left side of the lane to the basket for a miss. If they won't pass the ball to Vuc or Drummond for that matter when they have position or even better a mismatch from a switch, then they can't run out and get the ball so they can't score in the paint.

I don't now if Vuc looked for or had other offers when he resigned with the Bulls but as this season wears on I have to wonder if he isn't regretting staying here when he works hard to provide the size and post game only Andre else has, and has to hear the complaints about not scoring in the lane knowing he doesn't get the ball to do it. Ayo and AC, injury PWill are the ones who seem able to throw the ball into the post to score. Demar is reluctant at best and Zach for whatever reason consistently threw the ball at Vuc's knees and it was turnover time.

[sco]

Again with the fickle one game makes a career decision. Vuc was just fine scoring 26 points in a win over ATL but he scores 9 in a loss and he's dirt. They got trounced in points in the paint, would have made a difference, It happened obviously late where Vuc got position and sealed his man behind him in the lane 6 feet from the basket , DeRozan had the ball at the top of the key and big shock, drove the left side of the lane to the basket for a miss. If they won't pass the ball to Vuc or Drummond for that matter when they have position or even better a mismatch from a switch, then they can't run out and get the ball so they can't score in the paint.

I don't now if Vuc looked for or had other offers when he resigned with the Bulls but as this season wears on I have to wonder if he isn't regretting staying here when he works hard to provide the size and post game only Andre else has, and has to hear the complaints about not scoring in the lane knowing he doesn't get the ball to do it. Ayo and AC, injury PWill are the ones who seem able to throw the ball into the post to score. Demar is reluctant at best and Zach for whatever reason consistently threw the ball at Vuc's knees and it was turnover time.

Ok so ATL just got crush by CHA, and I'm not saying Vuc is dirt. I am saying he is a BAD defender and seems to have an offensive dichotomy such that he is good against bad defensive C's and bad against good defensive C's (i.e. a bumslayer). Maybe 1/3 of the starting C's, he'll do well against and maybe 2/3 of the bench C's. I'm just saying that maximizing his time against bad defensive C's (mainly bench units) is a strategy that could be a win for the Bulls.

[MrSparkle]

Vuc definitely has situational value. But man, he is so obviously not a top-3 option anymore. If Billy was coaching the 2014 Warriors, he’d be running Bogut for 39 mpg and giving him 18 FGAs.

The more I watch Billy, I appreciate some things about him (the camaraderie and defensive effort, team chemistry). In the grand scheme… whatever, we are not a good team on paper. No matter how you look at it, 3 young starters taking up 60% the cap are indefinitely out the rotation.

All I’m saying, is that Billy loses more games than your usual “good” coach. Honestly, come this summer, if the Bulls somehow double down on trying to win more games, it might be a great time to pursue Budenholzer and end the Donovan era. If I have to be entirely honest, on the off-chance Zach/Lonzo/Pat are available to play in low minute roles, the Bulls add a draft pick, and Coby/Ayo/Phillips/Terry take another step… a coach like Bud would win 50 games with this roster. I am fairly confident Billy has actually underperformed. Way too many games lost jamming Zach/Vuc/Demar/Pat in big minutes, we he had all these guys healthier and active.

I think it starts with overplaying Vuc, or not utilizing him in his best spaces. IMO he’s like a 6th man caliber guy right now, and either you token start him with limited closing minutes, or you literally move him to the 2nd unit. Billy lost TONS of games last year by icing Drummond.

But even in principle, just the offensive sets still seem awkward. Took frustrating meltdowns and closed locker meetings to air out roles. Maybe it was Zach’s fault, but maybe it was also the coach’s inability to figure this out? Just maybe?

There are 2 types of coaches; the kinds who could win upsets with JL3 filling in for an MVP Rose, and the kind who always seem to have an injury or effort excuse. Note that Thibs never really complained about player effort or injuries in pressers: “we have enough.” Same with Spo, Carlisle… these guys just work with their available parts. Bud managed multiple contending seasons with chronically injured Middleton, an injury prone Jrue, and Jevon Carter as his primary bench guard (who I guess is now struggling as a 3rd string PG on a sub-500 team, which is missing its “starting” backcourt to knee/foot surgeries).

So for the constant ragging on the roster and the injuries… I’m still adamant we have an underperforming stubborn coach. Good at player development, but I get the vibe we’re a basketball academy, not a pro team. Bud is out fishing.

I guess it’ll be important to see what direction they take, but we might want a more seasoned NBA coach for Coby, Ayo and Pat to take their next big steps… never mind the record.

The last thing, is on some level, Billy had to have input on ditching Lauri, Gafford, etc. I’m a little puzzled how a coach could mis-read players this much. Fine , I mis-read their potential by a mile, but I don’t get paid $6m a year to study and scheme basketball. I know that if he could visualize an inkling of Lauri’s looming talent, he would’ve never agreed for his FO to send him out for a journeyman coming off a career-low season, and a lotto protected pick.

[HomoSapien]

Vuc definitely has situational value. But man, he is so obviously not a top-3 option anymore. If Billy was coaching the 2014 Warriors, he’d be running Bogut for 39 mpg and giving him 18 FGAs.

The more I watch Billy, I appreciate some things about him (the camaraderie and defensive effort, team chemistry). In the grand scheme… whatever, we are not a good team on paper. No matter how you look at it, 3 young starters taking up 60% the cap are indefinitely out the rotation.

All I’m saying, is that Billy loses more games than your usual “good” coach. Honestly, come this summer, if the Bulls somehow double down on trying to win more games, it might be a great time to pursue Budenholzer and end the Donovan era. If I have to be entirely honest, on the off-chance Zach/Lonzo/Pat are available to play in low minute roles, the Bulls add a draft pick, and Coby/Ayo/Phillips/Terry take another step… a coach like Bud would win 50 games with this roster. I am fairly confident Billy has actually underperformed. Way too many games lost jamming Zach/Vuc/Demar/Pat in big minutes, we he had all these guys healthier and active.

I think it starts with overplaying Vuc, or not utilizing him in his best spaces. IMO he’s like a 6th man caliber guy right now, and either you token start him with limited closing minutes, or you literally move him to the 2nd unit. Billy lost TONS of games last year by icing Drummond.

But even in principle, just the offensive sets still seem awkward. Took frustrating meltdowns and closed locker meetings to air out roles. Maybe it was Zach’s fault, but maybe it was also the coach’s inability to figure this out? Just maybe?

There are 2 types of coaches; the kinds who could win upsets with JL3 filling in for an MVP Rose, and the kind who always seem to have an injury or effort excuse. Note that Thibs never really complained about player effort or injuries in pressers: “we have enough.” Same with Spo, Carlisle… these guys just work with their available parts. Bud managed multiple contending seasons with chronically injured Middleton, an injury prone Jrue, and Jevon Carter as his primary bench guard (who I guess is now struggling as a 3rd string PG on a sub-500 team, which is missing its “starting” backcourt to knee/foot surgeries).

So for the constant ragging on the roster and the injuries… I’m still adamant we have an underperforming stubborn coach. Good at player development, but I get the vibe we’re a basketball academy, not a pro team. Bud is out fishing.

I guess it’ll be important to see what direction they take, but we might want a more seasoned NBA coach for Coby, Ayo and Pat to take their next big steps… never mind the record.

The last thing, is on some level, Billy had to have input on ditching Lauri, Gafford, etc. I’m a little puzzled how a coach could mis-read players this much. Fine , I mis-read their potential by a mile, but I don’t get paid $6m a year to study and scheme basketball. I know that if he could visualize an inkling of Lauri’s looming talent, he would’ve never agreed for his FO to send him out for a journeyman coming off a career-low season, and a lotto protected pick.

Great post. I've heard people argue we're a poorly built team, so winning 41 games a year seems like it's actually meeting realistic expectations. I get that argument, but when you watch this team over the course of the season you see how much we've underachieved over the years due to obvious missed challenges, riding the wrong guys, disregarding the importance of size, etc. Those things are on Billy.

Like you said, he seems like a good guy and I appreciate things about him -- there's almost never any drama, he seems professional, keeps the vibe good, has never lost the team -- but I just feel like he's underwhelming.

[dougthonus]

Vuc definitely has situational value. But man, he is so obviously not a top-3 option anymore. If Billy was coaching the 2014 Warriors, he’d be running Bogut for 39 mpg and giving him 18 FGAs.

The more I watch Billy, I appreciate some things about him (the camaraderie and defensive effort, team chemistry). In the grand scheme… whatever, we are not a good team on paper. No matter how you look at it, 3 young starters taking up 60% the cap are indefinitely out the rotation.

All I’m saying, is that Billy loses more games than your usual “good” coach. Honestly, come this summer, if the Bulls somehow double down on trying to win more games, it might be a great time to pursue Budenholzer and end the Donovan era. If I have to be entirely honest, on the off-chance Zach/Lonzo/Pat are available to play in low minute roles, the Bulls add a draft pick, and Coby/Ayo/Phillips/Terry take another step… a coach like Bud would win 50 games with this roster. I am fairly confident Billy has actually underperformed. Way too many games lost jamming Zach/Vuc/Demar/Pat in big minutes, we he had all these guys healthier and active.

I think it starts with overplaying Vuc, or not utilizing him in his best spaces. IMO he’s like a 6th man caliber guy right now, and either you token start him with limited closing minutes, or you literally move him to the 2nd unit. Billy lost TONS of games last year by icing Drummond.

But even in principle, just the offensive sets still seem awkward. Took frustrating meltdowns and closed locker meetings to air out roles. Maybe it was Zach’s fault, but maybe it was also the coach’s inability to figure this out? Just maybe?

There are 2 types of coaches; the kinds who could win upsets with JL3 filling in for an MVP Rose, and the kind who always seem to have an injury or effort excuse. Note that Thibs never really complained about player effort or injuries in pressers: “we have enough.” Same with Spo, Carlisle… these guys just work with their available parts. Bud managed multiple contending seasons with chronically injured Middleton, an injury prone Jrue, and Jevon Carter as his primary bench guard (who I guess is now struggling as a 3rd string PG on a sub-500 team, which is missing its “starting” backcourt to knee/foot surgeries).

So for the constant ragging on the roster and the injuries… I’m still adamant we have an underperforming stubborn coach. Good at player development, but I get the vibe we’re a basketball academy, not a pro team. Bud is out fishing.

I guess it’ll be important to see what direction they take, but we might want a more seasoned NBA coach for Coby, Ayo and Pat to take their next big steps… never mind the record.

The last thing, is on some level, Billy had to have input on ditching Lauri, Gafford, etc. I’m a little puzzled how a coach could mis-read players this much. Fine , I mis-read their potential by a mile, but I don’t get paid $6m a year to study and scheme basketball. I know that if he could visualize an inkling of Lauri’s looming talent, he would’ve never agreed for his FO to send him out for a journeyman coming off a career-low season, and a lotto protected pick.

I don't know that you are wrong, but let me give you a few counter points:

1: Everyone wanted to bench Coby White and move to Jevon Carter because he was a better fit and Coby started off the season playing like trash. Donovan wanted to stick with Coby against great heat from Bulls nation, and Coby now looks like a star.

2: The most important thing that could happen this year is development of our young players (Ayo, Coby, and Pat). Two of the three have taken tremendous leaps forward

3: DeMar, at an advanced age, probably just played a few of the best seasons of his career at a point where that's incredibly unlikely

4: He's put in place a respectable-ish defense with one plus defender on the team

5: Donovan will likely beat the vegas odds for the Bulls in 3 out of 4 years. To assume that the Bulls have 13+ win potential over vegas odds with this roster and are only better coaching away from it seems like a totally absurd conclusion to draw.

I think when people evaluate coaches their evaluation is typically:
1: Assume everything good they've done or are doing is a given and will be continued by someone else

2: Assume the new guy will then fix all the bad things that the other guy did

Evaluation of coaches tends to be very hindsight based with people thinking with hindsight they can see what all the good coaching decisions are and would then make them but would not undo anything that worked, regardless of whether that looked likely or unlikely to work in the moment.

I don't know that Donovan is the best, but this team isn't a head coach away. We have perhaps the worst center rotation in the NBA, we lack shooting all over the floor and have no source of efficient offense, and we are full of mediocre defenders. Nothing about our roster says 50 win team. Of the teams in front of us, how many would you rather have our roster than theirs?

[League Circles]

Vuc definitely has situational value. But man, he is so obviously not a top-3 option anymore. If Billy was coaching the 2014 Warriors, he’d be running Bogut for 39 mpg and giving him 18 FGAs.

The more I watch Billy, I appreciate some things about him (the camaraderie and defensive effort, team chemistry). In the grand scheme… whatever, we are not a good team on paper. No matter how you look at it, 3 young starters taking up 60% the cap are indefinitely out the rotation.

All I’m saying, is that Billy loses more games than your usual “good” coach. Honestly, come this summer, if the Bulls somehow double down on trying to win more games, it might be a great time to pursue Budenholzer and end the Donovan era. If I have to be entirely honest, on the off-chance Zach/Lonzo/Pat are available to play in low minute roles, the Bulls add a draft pick, and Coby/Ayo/Phillips/Terry take another step… a coach like Bud would win 50 games with this roster. I am fairly confident Billy has actually underperformed. Way too many games lost jamming Zach/Vuc/Demar/Pat in big minutes, we he had all these guys healthier and active.

I think it starts with overplaying Vuc, or not utilizing him in his best spaces. IMO he’s like a 6th man caliber guy right now, and either you token start him with limited closing minutes, or you literally move him to the 2nd unit. Billy lost TONS of games last year by icing Drummond.

But even in principle, just the offensive sets still seem awkward. Took frustrating meltdowns and closed locker meetings to air out roles. Maybe it was Zach’s fault, but maybe it was also the coach’s inability to figure this out? Just maybe?

There are 2 types of coaches; the kinds who could win upsets with JL3 filling in for an MVP Rose, and the kind who always seem to have an injury or effort excuse. Note that Thibs never really complained about player effort or injuries in pressers: “we have enough.” Same with Spo, Carlisle… these guys just work with their available parts. Bud managed multiple contending seasons with chronically injured Middleton, an injury prone Jrue, and Jevon Carter as his primary bench guard (who I guess is now struggling as a 3rd string PG on a sub-500 team, which is missing its “starting” backcourt to knee/foot surgeries).

So for the constant ragging on the roster and the injuries… I’m still adamant we have an underperforming stubborn coach. Good at player development, but I get the vibe we’re a basketball academy, not a pro team. Bud is out fishing.

I guess it’ll be important to see what direction they take, but we might want a more seasoned NBA coach for Coby, Ayo and Pat to take their next big steps… never mind the record.

The last thing, is on some level, Billy had to have input on ditching Lauri, Gafford, etc. I’m a little puzzled how a coach could mis-read players this much. Fine , I mis-read their potential by a mile, but I don’t get paid $6m a year to study and scheme basketball. I know that if he could visualize an inkling of Lauri’s looming talent, he would’ve never agreed for his FO to send him out for a journeyman coming off a career-low season, and a lotto protected pick.

I don't know that you are wrong, but let me give you a few counter points:

1: Everyone wanted to bench Coby White and move to Jevon Carter because he was a better fit and Coby started off the season playing like trash. Donovan wanted to stick with Coby against great heat from Bulls nation, and Coby now looks like a star.

2: The most important thing that could happen this year is development of our young players (Ayo, Coby, and Pat). Two of the three have taken tremendous leaps forward

3: DeMar, at an advanced age, probably just played a few of the best seasons of his career at a point where that's incredibly unlikely

4: He's put in place a respectable-ish defense with one plus defender on the team

5: Donovan will likely beat the vegas odds for the Bulls in 3 out of 4 years. To assume that the Bulls have 13+ win potential over vegas odds with this roster and are only better coaching away from it seems like a totally absurd conclusion to draw.

I think when people evaluate coaches their evaluation is typically:
1: Assume everything good they've done or are doing is a given and will be continued by someone else

2: Assume the new guy will then fix all the bad things that the other guy did

Evaluation of coaches tends to be very hindsight based with people thinking with hindsight they can see what all the good coaching decisions are and would then make them but would not undo anything that worked, regardless of whether that looked likely or unlikely to work in the moment.

I don't know that Donovan is the best, but this team isn't a head coach away. We have perhaps the worst center rotation in the NBA, we lack shooting all over the floor and have no source of efficient offense, and we are full of mediocre defenders. Nothing about our roster says 50 win team. Of the teams in front of us, how many would you rather have our roster than theirs?

Good points. I'm down on Billy's weaknesses but he also has strengths that people overlook and which we've been starved for in Chicago for literally decades. I disagree with how bad our roster is, but agree I'd only consider taking 3 or 4 rosters that are ahead of us in the standings (maaaaybe Lakers, GS, Orlando and/or NY at most). We actually have a pretty solid C rotation IMO and have more plus defenders than you think we do (Craig, Patrick, Caruso for sure plus possibly Ayo, Drummond, Terry, Carter and Coby are probably all above average).

[sco]

Maybe GS moving Thompson to the bench will inspire Billy to bench Vuc!

[League Circles]

Maybe GS moving Thompson to the bench will inspire Billy to bench Vuc!

We should wait til the start of next season to bench Vuc, for the sole purpose of one last desperate attempt to pump and dump him, cause benching him will likely tank his already poor value. Same reason I haven't advocated benching Carter entirely even though based on performance he should be.

[MrSparkle]

Vuc definitely has situational value. But man, he is so obviously not a top-3 option anymore. If Billy was coaching the 2014 Warriors, he’d be running Bogut for 39 mpg and giving him 18 FGAs.

The more I watch Billy, I appreciate some things about him (the camaraderie and defensive effort, team chemistry). In the grand scheme… whatever, we are not a good team on paper. No matter how you look at it, 3 young starters taking up 60% the cap are indefinitely out the rotation.

All I’m saying, is that Billy loses more games than your usual “good” coach. Honestly, come this summer, if the Bulls somehow double down on trying to win more games, it might be a great time to pursue Budenholzer and end the Donovan era. If I have to be entirely honest, on the off-chance Zach/Lonzo/Pat are available to play in low minute roles, the Bulls add a draft pick, and Coby/Ayo/Phillips/Terry take another step… a coach like Bud would win 50 games with this roster. I am fairly confident Billy has actually underperformed. Way too many games lost jamming Zach/Vuc/Demar/Pat in big minutes, we he had all these guys healthier and active.

I think it starts with overplaying Vuc, or not utilizing him in his best spaces. IMO he’s like a 6th man caliber guy right now, and either you token start him with limited closing minutes, or you literally move him to the 2nd unit. Billy lost TONS of games last year by icing Drummond.

But even in principle, just the offensive sets still seem awkward. Took frustrating meltdowns and closed locker meetings to air out roles. Maybe it was Zach’s fault, but maybe it was also the coach’s inability to figure this out? Just maybe?

There are 2 types of coaches; the kinds who could win upsets with JL3 filling in for an MVP Rose, and the kind who always seem to have an injury or effort excuse. Note that Thibs never really complained about player effort or injuries in pressers: “we have enough.” Same with Spo, Carlisle… these guys just work with their available parts. Bud managed multiple contending seasons with chronically injured Middleton, an injury prone Jrue, and Jevon Carter as his primary bench guard (who I guess is now struggling as a 3rd string PG on a sub-500 team, which is missing its “starting” backcourt to knee/foot surgeries).

So for the constant ragging on the roster and the injuries… I’m still adamant we have an underperforming stubborn coach. Good at player development, but I get the vibe we’re a basketball academy, not a pro team. Bud is out fishing.

I guess it’ll be important to see what direction they take, but we might want a more seasoned NBA coach for Coby, Ayo and Pat to take their next big steps… never mind the record.

The last thing, is on some level, Billy had to have input on ditching Lauri, Gafford, etc. I’m a little puzzled how a coach could mis-read players this much. Fine , I mis-read their potential by a mile, but I don’t get paid $6m a year to study and scheme basketball. I know that if he could visualize an inkling of Lauri’s looming talent, he would’ve never agreed for his FO to send him out for a journeyman coming off a career-low season, and a lotto protected pick.

I don't know that you are wrong, but let me give you a few counter points:

1: Everyone wanted to bench Coby White and move to Jevon Carter because he was a better fit and Coby started off the season playing like trash. Donovan wanted to stick with Coby against great heat from Bulls nation, and Coby now looks like a star.

2: The most important thing that could happen this year is development of our young players (Ayo, Coby, and Pat). Two of the three have taken tremendous leaps forward

3: DeMar, at an advanced age, probably just played a few of the best seasons of his career at a point where that's incredibly unlikely

4: He's put in place a respectable-ish defense with one plus defender on the team

5: Donovan will likely beat the vegas odds for the Bulls in 3 out of 4 years. To assume that the Bulls have 13+ win potential over vegas odds with this roster and are only better coaching away from it seems like a totally absurd conclusion to draw.

I think when people evaluate coaches their evaluation is typically:
1: Assume everything good they've done or are doing is a given and will be continued by someone else

2: Assume the new guy will then fix all the bad things that the other guy did

Evaluation of coaches tends to be very hindsight based with people thinking with hindsight they can see what all the good coaching decisions are and would then make them but would not undo anything that worked, regardless of whether that looked likely or unlikely to work in the moment.

I don't know that Donovan is the best, but this team isn't a head coach away. We have perhaps the worst center rotation in the NBA, we lack shooting all over the floor and have no source of efficient offense, and we are full of mediocre defenders. Nothing about our roster says 50 win team. Of the teams in front of us, how many would you rather have our roster than theirs?

All good points. He has his strengths.

In this case, I’m thinking a guy like Budenholzer would over-achieve with the roster.

I’d say the start to this year was egregiously bad, and while the “record since” is nice and all, seeing as many issues repeated themselves over the last 3 seasons, just saying there’s a pattern with him strongly underperforming (brutally) for key stretches.

I certainly didn’t want Jevon (at all), and I’m surprised/relieved Billy chose Coby so quickly. I don’t think this was such a tough choice though. Jevon’s defense (undersized) and on ball skills were absolutely brutal in pre season. All that said , Donovan gets credit for Ayo, Coby (and Pat if he pans), although at no point did i think any of these guys were unplayable, contrary to some of the loudest critics. Below-average starters with bad Fg% and errors? Of course. But they were very young prospects with skills, so playing them was obviously for development. But I keep referencing Billy’s first season, where Coby/Pat started and we looked respectable until the deadline implosion. And those 2 were noticeably greener. It’s not like they needed to keep re-proving they have NBA talent. Coby/Ayo also stepped up a lot during the first Lonzo injury crisis. They hit rough bumps over the years, but they showed something each season. More than anything, Beverley maybe showed those 2 that there needs to be accountability for the vets, and you see both young guards talking and leading more. As cheesy as it is, player mentorships do a lot for development too. Beverley brought something that Billy was obviously missing.

[sco]

Maybe GS moving Thompson to the bench will inspire Billy to bench Vuc!

We should wait til the start of next season to bench Vuc, for the sole purpose of one last desperate attempt to pump and dump him, cause benching him will likely tank his already poor value. Same reason I haven't advocated benching Carter entirely even though based on performance he should be.

There is a big hole in that pool toy. Any pumping will result in a hissing out. But don't worry, Billy doen't want to make any waves in the Vuc pool.

[League Circles]

Maybe GS moving Thompson to the bench will inspire Billy to bench Vuc!

We should wait til the start of next season to bench Vuc, for the sole purpose of one last desperate attempt to pump and dump him, cause benching him will likely tank his already poor value. Same reason I haven't advocated benching Carter entirely even though based on performance he should be.

There is a big hole in that pool toy. Any pumping will result in a hissing out. But don't worry, Billy doen't want to make any waves in the Vuc pool.

Idk, to me there is a much greater chance that another team will be able to talk themselves into taking on Vuc (largely as part of a bigger deal involving Caruso) if he's just been starting, possibly in the playoffs, especially if he shoots better than he has so far this year, than if he's been benched.

[MrSparkle]

We should wait til the start of next season to bench Vuc, for the sole purpose of one last desperate attempt to pump and dump him, cause benching him will likely tank his already poor value. Same reason I haven't advocated benching Carter entirely even though based on performance he should be.

There is a big hole in that pool toy. Any pumping will result in a hissing out. But don't worry, Billy doen't want to make any waves in the Vuc pool.

Idk, to me there is a much greater chance that another team will be able to talk themselves into taking on Vuc (largely as part of a bigger deal involving Caruso) if he's just been starting, possibly in the playoffs, especially if he shoots better than he has so far this year, than if he's been benched.

All it takes is one team bummed about their last season. I don't think it's out of realm for Vuc to bounce back AFTER he leaves the Bulls, but it's unlikely he finds his touch here. He's just going to get worse IMO.

But yes, we'll see how this draft shakes out. Surely the Pistons, Hornets, Spurs, will explore cheap/low-risk vets to babysit the kids. Not sure we get anything of value back, but at this point a few 2nds and a new direction (at center) would be quite refreshing. Then again, it can always get worse.

[sco]

We should wait til the start of next season to bench Vuc, for the sole purpose of one last desperate attempt to pump and dump him, cause benching him will likely tank his already poor value. Same reason I haven't advocated benching Carter entirely even though based on performance he should be.

There is a big hole in that pool toy. Any pumping will result in a hissing out. But don't worry, Billy doen't want to make any waves in the Vuc pool.

Idk, to me there is a much greater chance that another team will be able to talk themselves into taking on Vuc (largely as part of a bigger deal involving Caruso) if he's just been starting, possibly in the playoffs, especially if he shoots better than he has so far this year, than if he's been benched.

I understand, but disagree, with the notion of using an asset to rid ourselves of Vuc. I could be talked into the POR pick, but not Caruso. We'd be lucky to nab a late 1st and an expiring in a deal like that. If I'm trading Caruso, it's for a young player with upside and a late lotto 1st.

[League Circles]

There is a big hole in that pool toy. Any pumping will result in a hissing out. But don't worry, Billy doen't want to make any waves in the Vuc pool.

Idk, to me there is a much greater chance that another team will be able to talk themselves into taking on Vuc (largely as part of a bigger deal involving Caruso) if he's just been starting, possibly in the playoffs, especially if he shoots better than he has so far this year, than if he's been benched.

I understand, but disagree, with the notion of using an asset to rid ourselves of Vuc. I could be talked into the POR pick, but not Caruso. We'd be lucky to nab a late 1st and an expiring in a deal like that. If I'm trading Caruso, it's for a young player with upside and a late lotto 1st.

I'm only trading Caruso for a contributor or good pick or prospect. The intent here is to lower payroll and give Ayo a greater opportunity to take a lot of Caruso's role. I was thinking something involving Caruso and Vuc (plus more or less) for (more or less) somebody like Draymond Green, Brook Lopez, John Collins, Julius Randle or Clint Capela. We save money, shake things up and maybe become younger and more well balanced.