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Everyone knows where I stand with Lavine. I'm frustrated with Lavine because he has the tools but is an idiot and can't maximize them.

But Vuc on the other hand is straight trash. He's the definition of an empty calorie player.

His defense is a complete negative. I think even worse impact than Lavine because he plays the final line of defense and Cs are supposed to be the anchor. He has zero lift/shot contest and zero lateral movement.

His saving grace is supposed to be the offensive end but he's legitimately one of the worst front court players in the league. Below average efficiency in general (not even accounting for his position where he looks that much worse.)

No FT drawing. No pressuring the rim. His jumper is straight bad. He has weak post moves that provide no pressure on the defense. His playmaking is average at best.

The only thing he is good for is grabbing defensive boards that fall on his lap on a team that doesn't play any big men. Which is a very overrated skill.

Lavine needs to go in general but Vuc needs to go also. The team will get better just by subtraction and replacing him with a generic center.

Bro, he was abused by Lopez and Bitadze. His brick fest is shameful

It’s the Opera everybody gets a thread.

I wouldn't go as straight trash, I think that's a step too far. Patrick and Coby have been straight trash though, which would make Vuc a nicely polished turd, which could at least be used for fertilizer.

aguifs wrote:Bro, he was abused by Lopez and Bitadze. His brick fest is shameful

He’s gotten older and slower. It also seems he plays scared to get dunked on. He just shrinks when challenged or anyone plays physical with him.

We would be better swapping Vuc and Drummond’s mins.

Well I agree. I've been calling him straight trash for two years now.

Inefficient one way offensive players are always low value, but when they play center it's the absolute worst given it's the most important defensive position and the efficiency of a typical center is super high.

I have to admit that looking back, I didn't recognize the overall picture of the trade. Or rather, I didn't want to recognize it. Blinded by the many changes, almost everything felt incredibly good, and we have not only been getting the receipt for this since this season.

Wendell Carter Jr., Otto Porter and two first-round picks (2021 and 2023). Now this trade hurts so incredibly much! I wouldn't go so far as to say that Vooch is complete trash, but the current overall picture of this team makes him look worse.

It'd be nice if we could contain all the complaining to one thread....

If I have to watch 1 more game where we go to vuc early and he is bricking bunnies by the basket I'm going to scream. I can't take it anymore. I want to shake Stacy king out of the 90s and let him know vuc is not cartwright or lucky Longley bro. They hit their shots early vuc doesn't. We have to go somewhere else early specifically either lavine or derozan to get us off to good starts. Hell Caruso did great for us yesterday and of course our brilliant coach sat him at that dreaded 6 min mark where he just has to make his subs smh.

_txchilibowl_ wrote:It'd be nice if we could contain all the complaining to one thread....

No, let it all burn.



It's not fun until it's fun-bad. We'll get there, God willing.

Yeah he sucks, but honestly you could make this thread for every player on the roster for different reasons. There's not a single long-term keeper on this whole team. Everyone either sucks or is too old to fit the timeline of a rebuild.

Probably one of the worst trades in Bulls history. He would be lucky to fetch a late first round pick these days. Was shocked how much the Bulls gave up for him, he's much better than WCJ.

_txchilibowl_ wrote:It'd be nice if we could contain all the complaining to one thread....

Then we'll have to keep all the complimenting to one thread too.

kulaz3000 wrote:I wouldn't go as straight trash, I think that's a step too far. Patrick and Coby have been straight trash though, which would make Vuc a nicely polished turd, which could at least be used for fertilizer.

He is. He doesn't fit any role. Maybe a reduced min backup C role where he can bum slay but that's about it. PWill and Coby aren't special but can be decent roleplayers. Their issue is mental. Vuc is just straight physically and age limited

GoBlue72391 wrote:

_txchilibowl_ wrote:It'd be nice if we could contain all the complaining to one thread....

Then we'll have to keep all the complimenting to one thread too.

Only Caruso and Ayo are worth complementing. Everyone else is too far gone

_txchilibowl_ wrote:It'd be nice if we could contain all the complaining to one thread....

It's not complaining when it's true. Then it's stating facts. Vuc has nothing going for him.

I just wish we had a younger, multiple time all star center that could take more of Vuc's minutes.......

I wish we had a coach that would tell him to get rebounds and that's it. But of course we have a coach that wants to show the whole world what a bad player we have and how incapable of coaching he is at the same time.

I'm willing to move Vuc but you've got to find a way for AKME to think they don't look like complete fools for not finding the same type of replacement during the summer that you think they can get now. THEN was the chance to move on from him, now there are fewer centers on the market to be found.

The way to replace Vuc at this point is to find a team with a center they are willing to deal that wants Zach, Demar or AC in a trade.

He's the biggest problem of the mid 3. Just rewatch the first possession of the Miami game what happens with our offense.

1. Derozan starts the ball.
2. Vuc & the PF move to set a double screen for the ball (AC, Patrick, Craig...wouldn't matter)
3. ALL THREE DEFENDERS GUARD Derozan (Adebayo, Highsmith, Robinson)
This should create a ton of open shot opportunities for any other team in the league, having drawn a triple team
5. Vuc is standing at 29' not doing anything watching Derozan get triple teamed. He's not moving into position to shoot a 3 or go to the basket
6. Lavine & White are where they should be, the corner 3s. Butler & Lowry are ready to steal the pass to either corner.
7. Derozan is forced to pass, and the only option is Vuc at 29' who is no position to score. (The PF is behind the wall of 3 defenders).
8. Vuc catches the ball, and since he isn't in position to score he just passes it to Zach.
9. Zach starts a dribble, Vuc now positions to a long 2 defended by a wing.
10. Coby comes up to get the ball heavily pressured by Lowry. Coby throws up a hail mary 3 with a defender in his face.

You simply cannot have a total non-scoring threat (Vuc) consistently part of your two man game. It allows the defense to freely double-team the ball and guard the corner 3s. Even a Robert Williams style low skill center who just rolls to the rim and can finish a lob or at least catch and lay it in is necessary. Vuc just fading away to 29' basically means the Bulls are playing 4 on 5 on offense. And throw in Craig or Williams, and it's more like 3 on 5.

"Well why doesn't Vuc just roll instead of pop?"
Because the lack of going athletically to the rim makes that a low efficiency play. When used as a roll-man, Vuc is a 36th percentile scorer. He has only a 5% foul drawing chance but a 11% turnover chance, that's just a bad play.

The best thing for the offense to do is recognize Vuc is just a roleplayer and have him out of the action. The Bulls finished the game mainly using Caruso & Coby White as the screener in the P&R, and Vuc stayed out of it. But doing this all the time would probably upset Vuc and go against Vuc's demands as a FA to get more touches.