Coby White has leveled up

[MrSparkle]

Taken from a Reddit post (not mine):

“Look for it at the 35 minute mark of his podcast. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-lowe-post/id986595124?i=1000647704622

When asked for a hint, Lowe described Coby as “a zero time All Star, unlikely to ever make an All Star team, having a little bit of a breakout year with a mediocre team.” “

I don’t agree with Zach Lowe, but it gives you what the national media and people around the league think of Coby.

Not gonna bother with the pod, but fact is he needs to become much better and consistent to sniff all-star.

“Unlikely” doesn’t mean “never”, but he has to solidify top-15 PG first.

Otoh… Fox, Maxey, Brunson… these guys were written off or under the radar barely 2 years ago. So “unlikely” doesn’t mean much in the NBA, for young players.

This could be Coby’s bridge year to another big jump. MIP conversation is a big step. Good work ethic. Rooting for him.

[PJSteven22]

Coby’s been making a strong case for going back to the bench recently. He needs to get it together.

For who?

[Stratmaster]

Taken from a Reddit post (not mine):

“Look for it at the 35 minute mark of his podcast. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-lowe-post/id986595124?i=1000647704622

When asked for a hint, Lowe described Coby as “a zero time All Star, unlikely to ever make an All Star team, having a little bit of a breakout year with a mediocre team.” “

I don’t agree with Zach Lowe, but it gives you what the national media and people around the league think of Coby.

Not gonna bother with the pod, but fact is he needs to become much better and consistent to sniff all-star.

“Unlikely” doesn’t mean “never”, but he has to solidify top-15 PG first.

Otoh… Fox, Maxey, Brunson… these guys were written off or under the radar barely 2 years ago. So “unlikely” doesn’t mean much in the NBA, for young players.

This could be Coby’s bridge year to another big jump. MIP conversation is a big step. Good work ethic. Rooting for him.

I don't see Coby being a top 15 point guard, because he isn't really a PG. Billy is already talking about trying to get him off ball more.

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[kodo]

Unlikely all-star is fair. Worth remembering Shai in 2022: 25 ppg 6 apg 5 rpg, incredible numbers. Not an all-star, OKC didn't win enough.

Coby to make the ASG would have to lead a team to being at least the real playoffs, 6th seed.
But Coby is not leading this team, despite what everyone likes to think.
Usage: 4th
FGA: 3rd
He's also only averaging 1.6 FGA in clutch minutes for us, in the clutch it's all Derozan. If the Bulls did great this season, the guy who would have gone to the ASG would have been Derozan not Coby.

And it's not trending towards Coby either. Last 10 games, FGA:
1. Vucevic
2. Derozan
3. White
So with all the injury issues, you would think we'd see us leaning more on Coby? No, those extra shots are going to Vuc.

Coby simply is not going to be the Bulls' rep at the ASG as voted by the national media & coaches when our own team doesn't seem him as a 1st or 2nd option. Not resigning Derozan + trading Lavine changes the situation, but Lowe knows that's unlikely with our FO so hence the "unlikely all-star."

[Stratmaster]

Unlikely all-star is fair. Worth remembering Shai in 2022: 25 ppg 6 apg 5 rpg, incredible numbers. Not an all-star, OKC didn't win enough.

Coby to make the ASG would have to lead a team to being at least the real playoffs, 6th seed.
But Coby is not leading this team, despite what everyone likes to think.
Usage: 4th
FGA: 3rd
He's also only averaging 1.6 FGA in clutch minutes for us, in the clutch it's all Derozan. If the Bulls did great this season, the guy who would have gone to the ASG would have been Derozan not Coby.

And it's not trending towards Coby either. Last 10 games, FGA:
1. Vucevic
2. Derozan
3. White
So with all the injury issues, you would think we'd see us leaning more on Coby? No, those extra shots are going to Vuc.

Coby simply is not going to be the Bulls' rep at the ASG as voted by the national media & coaches when our own team doesn't seem him as a 1st or 2nd option. Not resigning Derozan + trading Lavine changes the situation, but Lowe knows that's unlikely with our FO so hence the "unlikely all-star."

I doubt that is why Lowe is saying unlikely all star. Do you think those players are going to be here for the rest of his career?

The reason Coby's shots are tending down is because he has been shooting horribly, not because of the "Patrick Williams excuse". He was shooting the ball almost 20 times a game with about 9 3 point attempts during one stretch when he was hot. Even in the last few games he is still getting up 14 shots per game. If he plays at an all star level he will get the shots, and he will be an all-star. He simply has never played at that level.

Please let's not start the "player x is being held back by guys in front of him" with Coby.

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[DuckIII]

We definitely should not factor in how teammates impact each other in basketball. It’s pure fiction. In basketball, much like baseball, the game is highly compartmentalized in which one player’s performance is virtually never impacted by what teammates are doing.

Unless we are talking about DDR, in which case it’s super important. Or any other player, coach or employee of the team, past or present, for which we could engage the mental gymnastics necessary to attribute any of Lavine’s issues to them.

[Stratmaster]

We definitely should not factor in how teammates impact each other in basketball. It’s pure fiction. In basketball, much like baseball, the game is highly compartmentalized in which one player’s performance is virtually never impacted by what teammates are doing.

Unless we are talking about DDR, in which case it’s super important. Or any other player, coach or employee of the team, past or present, for which we could engage the mental gymnastics necessary to attribute any of Lavine’s issues to them.

What in the world are you ranting about?

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[DuckIII]

We definitely should not factor in how teammates impact each other in basketball. It’s pure fiction. In basketball, much like baseball, the game is highly compartmentalized in which one player’s performance is virtually never impacted by what teammates are doing.

Unless we are talking about DDR, in which case it’s super important. Or any other player, coach or employee of the team, past or present, for which we could engage the mental gymnastics necessary to attribute any of Lavine’s issues to them.

What in the world are you ranting about?

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

It’s a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a vest.

[MrSparkle]

Taken from a Reddit post (not mine):

“Look for it at the 35 minute mark of his podcast. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-lowe-post/id986595124?i=1000647704622

When asked for a hint, Lowe described Coby as “a zero time All Star, unlikely to ever make an All Star team, having a little bit of a breakout year with a mediocre team.” “

I don’t agree with Zach Lowe, but it gives you what the national media and people around the league think of Coby.

Not gonna bother with the pod, but fact is he needs to become much better and consistent to sniff all-star.

“Unlikely” doesn’t mean “never”, but he has to solidify top-15 PG first.

Otoh… Fox, Maxey, Brunson… these guys were written off or under the radar barely 2 years ago. So “unlikely” doesn’t mean much in the NBA, for young players.

This could be Coby’s bridge year to another big jump. MIP conversation is a big step. Good work ethic. Rooting for him.

I don't see Coby being a top 15 point guard, because he isn't really a PG. Billy is already talking about trying to get him off ball more.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

For the record, he flirted with top-10 PG for a good month. His consistency isn’t there, though. He’s basically had 2 hot stretches, and 2 cold.

At the 15-20th PG range, you’ve got FVV, Tyus, Sexton, White, D’Lo, and Brogdon. Are you suggesting Coby is not in that tier? Cause he’s quite clearly doing more than the aforementioned guys, responsible for running this short-handed team. Has been exactly a .500 team since our $45m boy went down.

[Stratmaster]

Not gonna bother with the pod, but fact is he needs to become much better and consistent to sniff all-star.

“Unlikely” doesn’t mean “never”, but he has to solidify top-15 PG first.

Otoh… Fox, Maxey, Brunson… these guys were written off or under the radar barely 2 years ago. So “unlikely” doesn’t mean much in the NBA, for young players.

This could be Coby’s bridge year to another big jump. MIP conversation is a big step. Good work ethic. Rooting for him.

I don't see Coby being a top 15 point guard, because he isn't really a PG. Billy is already talking about trying to get him off ball more.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

For the record, he flirted with top-10 PG for a good month. His consistency isn’t there, though. He’s basically had 2 hot stretches, and 2 cold.

At the 15-20th PG range, you’ve got FVV, Tyus, Sexton, White, D’Lo, and Brogdon. Are you suggesting Coby is not in that tier? Cause he’s quite clearly doing more than the aforementioned guys, responsible for running this short-handed team. Has been exactly a .500 team since our $45m boy went down.

In that tier of player, or PG? He had a great month. Kudos. He has had great months before. Again kudos. Since he is a combo guard, is he in the top 15 guards in the league?

What does Lavine have to do with it? Other than if he were healthy, Lavine is better.

You completely avoided addressing my point all so you could take a shot at Zach Lavine? Really?

I have to say that it is hilarious how people think that since I defended the scapegoating of Zach Lavine, somehow mentioning him in every post negates their need to have an actual defensible position. Do you think you're hurting my feelings or something or are you just childish by nature?

Here. Hold on while I shed a tear because you insulted Zach Lavine.

Ok. Thanks. I have my composure back. Now you and the rest of the minions tell me again about how Coby is an all-star, top 15 Guard. Maybe this time actually state a case for it.

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[Ice Man]

At the 15-20th PG range, you’ve got FVV, Tyus, Sexton, White, D’Lo, and Brogdon.

On VORP, Coby ranks 20th among PGs. Which sounds about right. He upped his game from being a backup to an average-level starter. That's a big improvement. A long ways from being an All Star, but on the other hand if he were to have a hot start next year and the Bulls somehow were to win some games ... hey, stranger things have happened. Banchero made the ASG this year and he's nothing remarkable.

[MrSparkle]

I don't see Coby being a top 15 point guard, because he isn't really a PG. Billy is already talking about trying to get him off ball more.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

For the record, he flirted with top-10 PG for a good month. His consistency isn’t there, though. He’s basically had 2 hot stretches, and 2 cold.

At the 15-20th PG range, you’ve got FVV, Tyus, Sexton, White, D’Lo, and Brogdon. Are you suggesting Coby is not in that tier? Cause he’s quite clearly doing more than the aforementioned guys, responsible for running this short-handed team. Has been exactly a .500 team since our $45m boy went down.

In that tier of player, or PG? He had a great month. Kudos. He has had great months before. Again kudos. Since he is a combo guard, is he in the top 15 guards in the league?

What does Lavine have to do with it? Other than if he were healthy, Lavine is better.

You completely avoided addressing my point all so you could take a shot at Zach Lavine? Really?

I have to say that it is hilarious how people think that since I defended the scapegoating of Zach Lavine, somehow mentioning him in every post negates their need to have an actual defensible position. Do you think you're hurting my feelings or something or are you just childish by nature?

Here. Hold on while I shed a tear because you insulted Zach Lavine.

Ok. Thanks. I have my composure back. Now you and the rest of the minions tell me again about how Coby is an all-star, top 15 Guard. Maybe this time actually state a case for it.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

I never said all-star top-15 guard.

Are there 15 PGs in the all-star game?

Like I said - he’s a 15-20th PG with room to grow. I’d consider the top-6 PGs as all-stars.

And Coby is definitively a PG. Is he able to run an offense like CP3 or Curry? No. I think that has less to do with position and more to do with IQ, handles, vision and scoring ability.

[nekorajo]

Coby’s been making a strong case for going back to the bench recently. He needs to get it together.

For who?

Billy moronically starts all our best guards, so a logical swap would have to come from a bigger position. But, I don't really want to see Coby benched. I'm just pointing out that his 1st Q no-shows are piling up. Choosing when to let the game come to him vs forcing the action is a tightrope act, and he has room for improvement. Recently, Coby’s default has been to wait until after the 1st Q to make his mark on the game. That's not what starters are expected to do especially considering that this team typically loses the 1st Q.

[Stratmaster]

For the record, he flirted with top-10 PG for a good month. His consistency isn’t there, though. He’s basically had 2 hot stretches, and 2 cold.

At the 15-20th PG range, you’ve got FVV, Tyus, Sexton, White, D’Lo, and Brogdon. Are you suggesting Coby is not in that tier? Cause he’s quite clearly doing more than the aforementioned guys, responsible for running this short-handed team. Has been exactly a .500 team since our $45m boy went down.

In that tier of player, or PG? He had a great month. Kudos. He has had great months before. Again kudos. Since he is a combo guard, is he in the top 15 guards in the league?

What does Lavine have to do with it? Other than if he were healthy, Lavine is better.

You completely avoided addressing my point all so you could take a shot at Zach Lavine? Really?

I have to say that it is hilarious how people think that since I defended the scapegoating of Zach Lavine, somehow mentioning him in every post negates their need to have an actual defensible position. Do you think you're hurting my feelings or something or are you just childish by nature?

Here. Hold on while I shed a tear because you insulted Zach Lavine.

Ok. Thanks. I have my composure back. Now you and the rest of the minions tell me again about how Coby is an all-star, top 15 Guard. Maybe this time actually state a case for it.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

I never said all-star top-15 guard.

Are there 15 PGs in the all-star game?

Like I said - he’s a 15-20th PG with room to grow. I’d consider the top-6 PGs as all-stars.

And Coby is definitively a PG. Is he able to run an offense like CP3 or Curry? No. I think that has less to do with position and more to do with IQ, handles, vision and scoring ability.

I am sorry that you didn't catch that my last comment was facetious in response to your avoiding the point and coming out of the blue with a "Zach Lavine sucks" argument while discussing whether or not Coby White is a top 15 PG; or whether he is really a PG at all.

If he is a PG, why is his coach saying they need to get the ball out of his hands to set up more catch and shoot opportunities for him? He is a combo guard playing the point because there is no one else to do it. With Ayo's resurgence he is playing it less and less. But just for grins, among point guards, Coby is:

20th in TS%
36th in assist ratio
26th in turnover ratio
Tied for 25th in PER
13th in points per game
18th in assists per game
23rd in steals per game
17th in blocks per game
His FG% and his 3 point percentage are both top 15.

All of the above tells me he is not a top 15 PG, and in reality, probably would fare better in a SG comparison.

[Stratmaster]

We definitely should not factor in how teammates impact each other in basketball. It’s pure fiction. In basketball, much like baseball, the game is highly compartmentalized in which one player’s performance is virtually never impacted by what teammates are doing.

Unless we are talking about DDR, in which case it’s super important. Or any other player, coach or employee of the team, past or present, for which we could engage the mental gymnastics necessary to attribute any of Lavine’s issues to them.

What in the world are you ranting about?

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It’s a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a vest.

Actually, it's a strawman argument, wrapped in a strawman argument, wrapped in a strawman argument, powdered with sarcasm.

Is there a strawman argument school? If so, you should teach it.

[dougthonus]

We definitely should not factor in how teammates impact each other in basketball. It’s pure fiction. In basketball, much like baseball, the game is highly compartmentalized in which one player’s performance is virtually never impacted by what teammates are doing.

Unless we are talking about DDR, in which case it’s super important. Or any other player, coach or employee of the team, past or present, for which we could engage the mental gymnastics necessary to attribute any of Lavine’s issues to them.

I think you misspelled Patrick Williams as Lavine.

If anyone's LaVine's hurt by his teammates it is a ripple in the ocean compared to the category 5 hurricane that is people talking about how all of Pat's problems are due to his teammates.

[Mbrahv0528]

What in the world are you ranting about?

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It’s a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a vest.

Actually, it's a strawman argument, wrapped in a strawman argument, wrapped in a strawman argument, powdered with sarcasm.

Is there a strawman argument school? If so, you should teach it.

No it isn't. The shtick gets old after a point. I really don't understand the energy being expelled to convince other Bulls fans that their team/players actually suck/aren't as good as they think they are. Different strokes I guess, but my goodness.

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[Stratmaster]

It’s a riddle, wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in a vest.

Actually, it's a strawman argument, wrapped in a strawman argument, wrapped in a strawman argument, powdered with sarcasm.

Is there a strawman argument school? If so, you should teach it.

No it isn't. The shtick gets old after a point. I really don't understand the energy being expelled to convince other Bulls fans that their team/players actually suck/aren't as good as they think they are. Different strokes I guess, but my goodness.

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

I have never said Coby sucks. I have said the opposite.

I really don't understand the energy being expelled to convince other Bulls fans that their team/players who are good are somehow better than they think they are.

[nekorajo]

I noticed some people were quick to congratulate the new shooting coach for Coby’s 3 point improvement. Why isn't anyone blaming him for Coby’s slump? Is the shooting coach a factor or not?

[Chi town]

Great theatre guys. Thanks Strat and Duck.

Coby needs to play off ball because he’s the only shooter on the team with Zach and Pat out. Ayo is starting to rise as a shooter though. Vuc keeps chucking 3s at a 25% clip.

Most efficient shot in hoops is FT, Layup/Dunk, C+S 3… not a dribble 3. C+S.

Billy wants Coby off ball because he won’t be passing to DDR Vuc Dalen and company to brick.