Stratmaster wrote:Infinity2152 wrote:Personally, think Coby will be a better starter than Ben Gordon ever was, people forget how bad Gordon was at everything but shooting. Bad ballhandler, horrible defender, undersized at SG, poor passer. As far as Deng vs Pat Will, Deng didn't spend his first four years playing PF, or next to three 20 pt starters. Deng was not getting 18 a game next to Zach, Demar, and Vuc. Pat may never be as good at SF as Deng, but he still could be. Ayo vs Hinrich is tough, Hinrich's the better shooter and passer, both good defenders, Ayo's more explosively athletic and faster on breaks, Hinrich gets the edge but Ayo can get close.
Not like Gordon, Hinrich, and Deng were physically superior to White, Ayo, and Williams, experience and growth can make up skill differences.
Luol Deng was 10 times better than Williams has been, and Williams was gifted a starting position.
If a few decent games is enough for people to compare the two, I think it's recency bias.
Kirk Hinrich shot 40% from 3 his first stint with the Bulls and 39% his 2nd. He had 4 seasons over 40٪ and 3 others over 39%. Coby has had 1 season over 38%. Hinrich was a way better defender. Hinrich averaged over 6 assists his first 5 years with the Bulls when he was playing the role and minutes that Coby is playing. Coby is averaging 4.3 so far this season, and we are raving about him now being a distributor. Ayo? Not even in the same league or discussion.
If a few decent games is enough for people to compare the two, I think it's recency bias.
I think Ben Gordon shot 42% from 3 as a Bull. He was a better shooter than Hinrich and way better than Coby has been. Even this season for 20-some games Coby is just barely at that level. This is one that I would agree with though. I would rather have Coby than prime Gordon. Because Gordon sucked at everything but shooting and was a ball stopper.
My rankings:
Deng
Hinrich
White
Gordon
Ayo
Williams
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Not comparing Hinrich to Coby, comparing him to Gordon, lol. Gordon shot 42% from 3, but also 40% from the field, horrible finisher. Very one dimensional player, and way bigger defensive liability and far more turnover prone than Coby. Maybe the most one dimensional, one elite skill player in league history.
Said Hinrich has the edge over Ayo, considering that's a lottery pick vs a second round pick, Ayo's still doing pretty good, may never be as good as Hinrich, but let's not act like Hinrich was an AllStar guard. After his fourth season Hinrich never averaged over 12 a game for his career, never more than 5 assists after his 6th, most seasons were 4 or less. He averaged like 10pt, 5 assts, 1.2 steals his second contract. And went downhill from there. Talking about recency bias, that's nostalgia, barely decent starter numbers. Ayo can beat that as a starter, if he makes it there.
Yes, Williams was unfairly pushed into a starting spot, yes he is playing out of position, and yes Deng would have averaged 12 pts playing with Zach, Demar and Vuc, there's only one basketball and those guys are taking shots. Williams is looking better and he's still 4 years from his prime. You can draft a 19 year old and expect him to be great against 25-30-35 year old vets, but it's unrealistic. Deng CERTAINLY showed better earlier, but his circumstances were vastly different playing with Hinrich, MVP Rose and Tyrus/Joakim Noah, or Chandler/Curry, instead of mashed between Debo and Vucevic. Williams has been on a rudderless, dysfunctional team his entire young NBA career, except the brief time Lonzo was healthy. Deng was superior player at this stage, but who knows where Pat will Goes? Two years ago, look at what critics were saying about Coby White. Or even a year ago. Would be willing to bet if they keep sitting Zach, or trade him, Pat's numbers will improve all year, it won't just be for a few games.
