RealGM

jordanwilliams6 wrote:Coby in my mind is now a Jamal Murray level player. He could easily slot in place of Murray on the Nuggets and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

Jamal is better. Scores 4.6 points more per 36 with similar efficiency, assists 2.3 more, same amount of turnovers. That said, if Coby takes another step forward (and Jamal does not), then Coby could catch regular-season Jamal next season.

That said, you are largely correct. The difference between Coby & Jamal is only worth a game or two per season. So yeah, at least in the regular season, if you switched those guys Denver would still be Denver.

Jcool0 wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:

jordanwilliams6 wrote:Coby in my mind is now a Jamal Murray level player. He could easily slot in place of Murray on the Nuggets and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

The challenge for Coby is does he have another level? Basically can he replicate what Murray does in the playoffs? The floor is regular season Murray and the ceiling is playoff Murray.

Lately, Coby's level jumping has been more a downward leveling off to his historical norms. I'm not going to overreact to his last 15 games, like people did to his roughly 15-game surge. He's a passable starting guard, but I still think his best role is as a microwave scorer.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

He's a 20/5/5 guy which is more then a passable starting guard. You're to hung up on the 11/3/3 guy he was the last two seasons.

He's not as bad as 11/3/3 but he also might not be as good as 20/5/5. We don't know yet. His truth might be somewhere in the middle of that.

jordanwilliams6 wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:

jordanwilliams6 wrote:Coby in my mind is now a Jamal Murray level player. He could easily slot in place of Murray on the Nuggets and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

The challenge for Coby is does he have another level? Basically can he replicate what Murray does in the playoffs? The floor is regular season Murray and the ceiling is playoff Murray.

Lately, Coby's level jumping has been more a downward leveling off to his historical norms. I'm not going to overreact to his last 15 games, like people did to his roughly 15-game surge. He's a passable starting guard, but I still think his best role is as a microwave scorer.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Strongly disagree. To me, Coby's floor is now a 20/5/5 point guard on elite shooting with solid playmaking and defense.

The next step will be ironing out his inconsistencies.

A player's best season does not equate to his floor. It's possible this is the best he'll ever be, and therefore 20/5/5 would be his ceiling. I can see him maintaining 20/5/5 moving forward, but I honesty can't see him getting too much better than that, and I could also see him reverting back to like 15-17 PPG.

Coby has never achieved elite shooting in his life, not even now during his breakout season, so not sure how elite shooting could be his floor.

His ceiling is probably slightly to moderately better than he's played this year, while his floor is realistically a good solid starter or elite 6th man. It's kind of been a tale of two seasons for Coby this year and his play has tailed off since the ASB. Maybe his ascension was a fluke or maybe it was legit and he just needs to become more consistent.

I'm optimistic, but not overly so to the point where I believe 20/5/5 is his floor since he's only achieved that once in 5 years with notable inconsistency during that 20/5/5 year.

Coby can go higher through…

- More FTs
- Better legs through less mins and better conditioning
- Better team pace, more and open shots

GoBlue72391 wrote:

Jcool0 wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:Lately, Coby's level jumping has been more a downward leveling off to his historical norms. I'm not going to overreact to his last 15 games, like people did to his roughly 15-game surge. He's a passable starting guard, but I still think his best role is as a microwave scorer.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

He's a 20/5/5 guy which is more then a passable starting guard. You're to hung up on the 11/3/3 guy he was the last two seasons.

He's not as bad as 11/3/3 but he also might not be as good as 20/5/5. We don't know yet. His truth might be somewhere in the middle of that.

Or he will be better then the 20/5/5

jordanwilliams6 wrote:Coby in my mind is now a Jamal Murray level player. He could easily slot in place of Murray on the Nuggets and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

Coby has gotten a lot better, but we don't have to be ridiculous. Jamal Murray put up 26/7/6 with 40% from deep in the playoffs last year. He has shown that he can play at a superstar level in the biggest moments. Coby simply isn't close to being there (yet).

Andi Obst wrote:

jordanwilliams6 wrote:Coby in my mind is now a Jamal Murray level player. He could easily slot in place of Murray on the Nuggets and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

Coby has gotten a lot better, but we don't have to be ridiculous. Jamal Murray put up 26/7/6 with 40% from deep in the playoffs last year. He has shown that he can play at a superstar level in the biggest moments. Coby simply isn't close to being there (yet).

And he will never be. Just like Zach Lavine is not Devin Booker lvl player. Coby is not Jamal Murray lvl player. Its just Bulls fandom projection to feel good when your team sucks, has no picks, no GM, no lottery young players All-Star good on rookie deal worth building your franchise around.

CROBulls wrote:

Andi Obst wrote:

jordanwilliams6 wrote:Coby in my mind is now a Jamal Murray level player. He could easily slot in place of Murray on the Nuggets and they wouldn’t miss a beat.

Coby has gotten a lot better, but we don't have to be ridiculous. Jamal Murray put up 26/7/6 with 40% from deep in the playoffs last year. He has shown that he can play at a superstar level in the biggest moments. Coby simply isn't close to being there (yet).

And he will never be. Just like Zach Lavine is not Devin Booker lvl player. Coby is not Jamal Murray lvl player. Its just Bulls fandom projection to feel good when your team sucks, has no picks, no GM, no lottery young players All-Star good on rookie deal worth building your franchise around.

You're probably right, but I've learned from past mistakes not to count out the guys with the right work ethic. When I look at team building we need to find a couple of allstar level talents to replace Zach (likely gone) and Demar (declining). While Coby isn't likely one of them, he looks like a guy who could be a starting SG or PG on a contending team with the right talent around him. That's a big step from where he was a couple of seasons ago.

sco wrote:

CROBulls wrote:

Andi Obst wrote:
Coby has gotten a lot better, but we don't have to be ridiculous. Jamal Murray put up 26/7/6 with 40% from deep in the playoffs last year. He has shown that he can play at a superstar level in the biggest moments. Coby simply isn't close to being there (yet).

And he will never be. Just like Zach Lavine is not Devin Booker lvl player. Coby is not Jamal Murray lvl player. Its just Bulls fandom projection to feel good when your team sucks, has no picks, no GM, no lottery young players All-Star good on rookie deal worth building your franchise around.

You're probably right, but I've learned from past mistakes not to count out the guys with the right work ethic. When I look at team building we need to find a couple of allstar level talents to replace Zach (likely gone) and Demar (declining). While Coby isn't likely one of them, he looks like a guy who could be a starting SG or PG on a contending team with the right talent around him. That's a big step from where he was a couple of seasons ago.

Keith Bogans was a starting Guard on a contending NBA team with the right talent around him.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Stratmaster wrote:

sco wrote:

CROBulls wrote:And he will never be. Just like Zach Lavine is not Devin Booker lvl player. Coby is not Jamal Murray lvl player. Its just Bulls fandom projection to feel good when your team sucks, has no picks, no GM, no lottery young players All-Star good on rookie deal worth building your franchise around.

You're probably right, but I've learned from past mistakes not to count out the guys with the right work ethic. When I look at team building we need to find a couple of allstar level talents to replace Zach (likely gone) and Demar (declining). While Coby isn't likely one of them, he looks like a guy who could be a starting SG or PG on a contending team with the right talent around him. That's a big step from where he was a couple of seasons ago.

Keith Bogans was a starting Guard on a contending NBA team with the right talent around him.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

So was Kobe Bryant.

DuckIII wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:

sco wrote:You're probably right, but I've learned from past mistakes not to count out the guys with the right work ethic. When I look at team building we need to find a couple of allstar level talents to replace Zach (likely gone) and Demar (declining). While Coby isn't likely one of them, he looks like a guy who could be a starting SG or PG on a contending team with the right talent around him. That's a big step from where he was a couple of seasons ago.

Keith Bogans was a starting Guard on a contending NBA team with the right talent around him.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

So was Kobe Bryant.

So was Michael Jordan. Do I need to explain my point? That you can say that about any reasonable quality NBA player?

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Stratmaster wrote:

DuckIII wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:Keith Bogans was a starting Guard on a contending NBA team with the right talent around him.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

So was Kobe Bryant.

So was Michael Jordan. Do I need to explain my point? That you can say that about any reasonable quality NBA player?

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Your point was to pick Kieth “The Bogans” Bogans, who is a meme in here for being an extremely low grade starter, as yet another way to diminish Coby White. Even when someone like sco is being very reserved about White.

EDIT

sco wrote:

CROBulls wrote:

Andi Obst wrote:
Coby has gotten a lot better, but we don't have to be ridiculous. Jamal Murray put up 26/7/6 with 40% from deep in the playoffs last year. He has shown that he can play at a superstar level in the biggest moments. Coby simply isn't close to being there (yet).

And he will never be. Just like Zach Lavine is not Devin Booker lvl player. Coby is not Jamal Murray lvl player. Its just Bulls fandom projection to feel good when your team sucks, has no picks, no GM, no lottery young players All-Star good on rookie deal worth building your franchise around.

You're probably right, but I've learned from past mistakes not to count out the guys with the right work ethic. When I look at team building we need to find a couple of allstar level talents to replace Zach (likely gone) and Demar (declining). While Coby isn't likely one of them, he looks like a guy who could be a starting SG or PG on a contending team with the right talent around him. That's a big step from where he was a couple of seasons ago.

I dont believe much in just work ethic anymore if there is no high lvl talent/tools involved along work ethic. You can work as hard as you can, but there is a ceiling involved. Coby White will never be franchise level player even if his work ethic was Jimmy Butler lvl. Simply because he has no tools to be such player to dominate at basketball court. And thats ok, I dont mind that. But that is the fact. Its not for discussion topic. I just wanted be clear on that.

I would trade Coby White this moment for just slight lottery chance of having to draft franchise player or franchise player. But everybody in league knows what I am saying. So there will never be such offer. What you saying "about looking as guy on contending team", yes I agree. I would trade for him if I had players worth building around already on roster. But we dont.

DuckIII wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:

DuckIII wrote:
So was Kobe Bryant.

So was Michael Jordan. Do I need to explain my point? That you can say that about any reasonable quality NBA player?

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Your point was to pick Kieth “The Bogans” Bogans, who is a meme in here for being an extremely low grade starter, as yet another way to diminish Coby White. Even when someone like sco is being very reserved about White, you cannot help yourself but to spray a little urine around anyway.

Everyone reading this thread knows what you are doing and why you are doing it. The whole reason you keep hollowly mentioning you like Coby is because you also know what you are doing and why you are doing it.

It’s basically hijacked the thread. So maybe just stop. It’s transparent.

I beg your pardon? My point was clear, and if it wasn't I restated it.

Sorry but you don't get to tell me what I mean or think.

I've been very clear what I believe, and don't believe, about Coby. If you disagree say so. If you want to believe he's the future Bulls star PG feel free.

That post was completely unnecessary and you should be warning yourself for it. Or just kick me the **** out if you can't handle someone having a different opinion.

You want to talk about themes that have hijacked this board PM me. I'll be happy to fill you in since you don't seem to know what that means.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

DuckIII wrote:

Stratmaster wrote:

DuckIII wrote:
So was Kobe Bryant.

So was Michael Jordan. Do I need to explain my point? That you can say that about any reasonable quality NBA player?

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Your point was to pick Kieth “The Bogans” Bogans, who is a meme in here for being an extremely low grade starter, as yet another way to diminish Coby White. Even when someone like sco is being very reserved about White.

EDIT

Nice edit. By the way, my experience is Sco does fine defending his position without your help

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

My general impression of Coby is that from his rookie year, he has improved his defense, his ball handling and his general game sense by a good bit. He is now a solid NBA player.

That said, I just said solid. He is maybe a 4th banana on a good team and certainly not the type of player you build around. Bulls fans are desperate for some positivity and Coby has been one of the few nice things this season so its getting more attention than it normally would.

Strat, I edited it myself because you had not responded to it yet, assumed you had not seen it, and I realized I was in the wrong with how far I took it. Evidently our posts crossed. For what it’s worth.

Jcool0 wrote:

GoBlue72391 wrote:

Jcool0 wrote:
He's a 20/5/5 guy which is more then a passable starting guard. You're to hung up on the 11/3/3 guy he was the last two seasons.

He's not as bad as 11/3/3 but he also might not be as good as 20/5/5. We don't know yet. His truth might be somewhere in the middle of that.

Or he will be better then the 20/5/5

Yeah true, my point is we really don't know what Coby is, at least not enough to be making any definitive statements just yet. We all thought we had him pegged as basically just another guy, but this season he took an unexpected step. But that step he's made, it's still been riddled with inconsistency we still don't know if it's for real or just a flash in the pan.

I'm just making my best estimate off what we've seen over his career, while trying not to overvalue or undervalue the roughly half of a season he's had this year where he played at a much higher level than normal.

He could be just scratching the surface or he could be starting to regress back to the mean (which is still a pretty good player). The things that give me pause are mostly his physical limitations and his inconsistency.

I've said all along that Coby is a guy you build with, not build around, and taking in his high point and now this cold streak I still feel that's pretty accurate.

coldfish wrote:My general impression of Coby is that from his rookie year, he has improved his defense, his ball handling and his general game sense by a good bit. He is now a solid NBA player.

That said, I just said solid. He is maybe a 4th banana on a good team and certainly not the type of player you build around. Bulls fans are desperate for some positivity and Coby has been one of the few nice things this season so its getting more attention than it normally would.

Yeah, this is basically how I feel, though I think Coby could be a #3 guy in the right situation and/or with a few more minor improvements which aren't too far fetched to achieve.