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Yeah I previously said it about Zach, and it's become obvious that Coby has earned the acknowledgment too. This isn't about the 4 game winning streak either. As a PG he's played with a high level of poise and control this entire season. He's improved at taking care of the ball. He plays good-to-great defense, and gives great effort at all times.

Also, Coby has become a leader, if not the leader of this team. And the great part is that he's genuinely happy when his teammates succeed. I don't understand why, but the pregame hugs are working along with the encouragement. This dude leads with effort, encouragement and positivity.

He's checking all the boxes for me at PG and I haven’t even mentioned his stats. What about the escape dribbles? The clutch playmaking? Being in the moment? Making the right play? Sacrificing his body taking charges? He's improved in nearly every way.

I mentioned that he's earned some Allstar votes (not an Allstar appearance). But if this team works its way back up the standings, I hope Bulls fans show up to vote just like he's been showing up for us. I still don’t think it's reasonable to expect much from this unbalanced roster, but win or lose, Sub Zero makes this team exciting again. And the best part is, he's still getting better.

Coby, Pat & Ayo are like Gordon, Deng & Hinrich but way better!

I like keeping DDR & Vooch with these guys. You guys can see they are gelling well together!

bullskokie wrote:Coby, Pat & Ayo are like Gordon, Deng & Hinrich but way better!

I like keeping DDR & Vooch with these guys. You guys can see they are gelling well together!

Good grief, this is so dumb. Our young players go on a hot streak and we collectively lose our minds.

GoBlue72391 wrote:

bullskokie wrote:Coby, Pat & Ayo are like Gordon, Deng & Hinrich but way better!

I like keeping DDR & Vooch with these guys. You guys can see they are gelling well together!

Good grief, this is so dumb. Our young players go on a hot streak and we collectively lose our minds.

It's not dumb or crazy. The OP made a compelling case that Coby is doing what he's doing lately as a result of a slow steady build. This is how most players get to be great players. There's absolutely no reason to think this is a fluke for Coby and many reasons (as outline above) to believe he is on the path the get better and better.

Pat, too, is obviously progressing. But there is much less evidence that he's going to improve as much as Coby has. Flashes make one hopeful, but not yet confident.

I've always love Ayo, even last year when he was in the dreaded Sophomore Slump. But he's demonstrating that he's smart, a capable 3pt shooter (still progressing), and potentially a very solid starter in the NBA.

And frankly, I think DDR and Vuc are very well suited to play with these guys for the next couple of years as they improve and we develop younger, better players through the draft or through trades.

However, like you, I'm not yet ready to call them Gordon, Deng and Heinrich. Yet!

jump wrote:

GoBlue72391 wrote:

bullskokie wrote:Coby, Pat & Ayo are like Gordon, Deng & Hinrich but way better!

I like keeping DDR & Vooch with these guys. You guys can see they are gelling well together!

Good grief, this is so dumb. Our young players go on a hot streak and we collectively lose our minds.

It's not dumb or crazy. The OG made a compelling case that Coby is doing what he's doing lately as a result of a slow steady build. This is how most players get to be great players. There's absolutely no reason to think this is a fluke for Coby and many reasons (as outline above) to believe he is on the path the get better and better.

Pat, too, is obviously progressing. But there is much less evidence that he's going to improve as much as Coby has. Flashes make one hopeful, but not yet confident.

I've always love Ayo, even last year when he was in the dreaded Sophomore Slump. But he's demonstrating that he's smart, a capable 3pt shooter (still progressing), and potentially a very solid starter in the NBA.

And frankly, I think DDR and Vuc are very well suited to play with these guys for the next couple of years as they improve and we develop younger, better players through the draft or through trades.

However, like you, I'm not yet ready to call them Gordon, Deng and Heinrich. Yet!

It's absolutely dumb and crazy to say "Coby, Pat & Ayo are like Gordon, Deng & Hinrich but way better!"

1000% dumb and crazy. I wasn't talking about OP, I was talking specifically about the quoted statement and indirectly about some other comments from the game thread.

Coby has a 67 TS% during this 10-game hot streak. That is completely unsustainable. This will be viewed as hating, but it's not, I'm just trying to be a realist.

I agree, Coby has leveled up. I love Coby and love what he's been doing, but a two-week hot streak isn't enough to raise someone's ceiling from 6th man to star/2nd option on a contender.

This shouldn't be a controversial statement at all.

There is absolutely nothing in the OP's premise that is dumb or crazy. My guess is you're not saying that upon clarification, just the Gordon, Deng, Heinrich thing. I think it all comes down to what kind of fan do you want to be. (FYI: The following is not about YOU per se. But there are a lot of fans like the ones I'm talking about). Do you want to be the fan who is ever hopeful? Who sees encouraging signs and is encouraged? Who goes "Hell yeah," when someone other than another fan praises your team or the players on it? Or do you want to be guy/girl who is cynical because he's afraid of being disappointed, and thus becomes bitter and jaded and forever negative when the team wins, or a player shines?

People will always exaggerate - in both directions. It is what it is.

But I'd rather be the former. It's much more fun for me, even if I am a Chicago sports fan. For that reason, I don't think anybody who gets excited about the Bulls is dumb or crazy.

GoBlue72391 wrote:

bullskokie wrote:Coby, Pat & Ayo are like Gordon, Deng & Hinrich but way better!

I like keeping DDR & Vooch with these guys. You guys can see they are gelling well together!

Good grief, this is so dumb. Our young players go on a hot streak and we collectively lose our minds.

It’s a silly statement.

You can see Coby attaining their level of play. I mean, he’s already there if he keeps playing like he has much of last year and this year.

However Ayo and Pat are far, far away from comps to BG, Kirk, or Deng. So to lump this current 3 together when 2/3rds of them have a long way to go (esp Pat) and compare to that 3, just way too premature. Much less tossing in a “way better.”

So what? Let him have his fun.

jump wrote:There is absolutely nothing in the OP's premise that is dumb or crazy. My guess is you're not saying that upon clarification, just the Gordon, Deng, Heinrich thing. I think it all comes down to what kind of fan do you want to be. (FYI: The following is not about YOU per se. But there are a lot of fans like the ones I'm talking about). Do you want to be the fan who is ever hopeful? Who sees encouraging signs and is encouraged? Who goes "Hell yeah," when someone other than another fan praises your team or the players on it? Or do you want to be guy/girl who is cynical because he's afraid of being disappointed, and thus becomes bitter and jaded and forever negative when the team wins, or a player shines?

People will always exaggerate - in both directions. It is what it is.

But I'd rather be the former. It's much more fun for me, even if I am a Chicago sports fan. For that reason, I don't think anybody who gets excited about the Bulls is dumb or crazy.

I clearly quoted the first comment in this thread, and then in another reply to you, I even more clearly stated I wasn't talking about the OP, but the "way better!" statement. That is an absurd statement.

I'm an optimist but I'm also a realist. I see plenty of encouraging signs and I am encouraged. I agree with OP and I don't think anything OP said was outlandish whatsoever.

I don't agree with the people who are saying our young players are Gordon, Deng, and Hinrich but way better or that Coby's ceiling is a star 2nd option on a championship contender. That's way too much way too soon.

I love my team, but I'm not a homer who overrates and overvalues our guys. I try to be as objective and realistic as possible while also being optimistic. There's a difference between being cynical and being grounded.

jump wrote:So what? Let him have his fun.

This is a forum where people debate sports. If you make an outlandish statement, you're going to get called out on it.

bullskokie wrote:Coby, Pat & Ayo are like Gordon, Deng & Hinrich but way better!

I like keeping DDR & Vooch with these guys. You guys can see they are gelling well together!

This is a pretty ridiculous statement. No offence.

I'm gonna assume you've typed them in how you've compared them (Coby = Gordon, Pat = Deng and Ayo = Hinrich)

Let's compare:

Year 5 Coby: 15.6ppg, 4.3apg, 43%fg & 41%3pt
Year 5 Ben: 20.7ppg, 3.4apg, 45%fg & 41%3pt

Year 4 Pat: 8.6ppg, 4.2rpg, 43%fg & 34%3pt
Year 4 Loul: 17ppg, 6.3rpg, 48%fg & 36%3pt (very low volume though)

Year 3 Ayo: 6.4ppg, 1.8apg, 49%fg, 35%3pt
Year 3 Kirk: 15.9ppg, 6.3apg, 42%fg, 37%3pt

Granted this season isn't over, but I don't see any of those guys reaching those levels.

Muzbar wrote:

bullskokie wrote:Coby, Pat & Ayo are like Gordon, Deng & Hinrich but way better!

I like keeping DDR & Vooch with these guys. You guys can see they are gelling well together!

This is a pretty ridiculous statement. No offence.

I'm gonna assume you've typed them in how you've compared them (Coby = Gordon, Pat = Deng and Ayo = Hinrich)

Let's compare:

Year 5 Coby: 15.6ppg, 4.3apg, 43%fg & 41%3pt
Year 5 Ben: 20.7ppg, 3.4apg, 45%fg & 41%3pt

Year 4 Pat: 8.6ppg, 4.2rpg, 43%fg & 34%3pt
Year 4 Loul: 17ppg, 6.3rpg, 48%fg & 36%3pt (very low volume though)

Year 3 Ayo: 6.4ppg, 1.8apg, 49%fg, 35%3pt
Year 3 Kirk: 15.9ppg, 6.3apg, 42%fg, 37%3pt

Granted this season isn't over, but I don't see any of those guys reaching those levels.

Imagine Gordon and Hinrich in todays game with the 3 point shot being the main shot. Deng wasn't too shabby himself but more of a 18 7 guy with good defense in his prime.

Coby improving...Markkanen playing well...maybe GarPax weren't as bad at drafting as some people thought? I say that and still think moving on from them was the right decision.

I think Coby's improvement and the fact that he just resigned for a nice reasonable price make you have to consider moving Lavine and even taking back a SG or PG with a fairly large contract expiring or with another year on it.

I also think that if they're going to keep Patrick, with defense in the starting 5 and if he keeps up the aggressive scoring, they could look at the rest of this season and one more summer of Ayo improving on offense and getting cured of the touch fouls on 3 pt shooters as a younger long term replacement for Caruso. Ayo like Coby just resigned a very contact.

Muzbar wrote:

bullskokie wrote:Coby, Pat & Ayo are like Gordon, Deng & Hinrich but way better!

I like keeping DDR & Vooch with these guys. You guys can see they are gelling well together!

This is a pretty ridiculous statement. No offence.

I'm gonna assume you've typed them in how you've compared them (Coby = Gordon, Pat = Deng and Ayo = Hinrich)

Let's compare:

Year 5 Coby: 15.6ppg, 4.3apg, 43%fg & 41%3pt
Year 5 Ben: 20.7ppg, 3.4apg, 45%fg & 41%3pt

Year 4 Pat: 8.6ppg, 4.2rpg, 43%fg & 34%3pt
Year 4 Loul: 17ppg, 6.3rpg, 48%fg & 36%3pt (very low volume though)

Year 3 Ayo: 6.4ppg, 1.8apg, 49%fg, 35%3pt
Year 3 Kirk: 15.9ppg, 6.3apg, 42%fg, 37%3pt

Granted this season isn't over, but I don't see any of those guys reaching those levels.

You have Vuk and Demar both eating up shots. Pat is not the same level as Young Luol.

Coby is much better finisher then Ben. He a far superior drive and kick player.

Ayo is a great defender and better in the open court.

Kirk was more polished.

Dan Z wrote:Coby improving...Markkanen playing well...maybe GarPax weren't as bad at drafting as some people thought? I say that and still think moving on from them was the right decision.

Drafting wasn't the problem it was that they were gold medalists in the nepotism Olympics instead of hiring a coaching staff that was actually good at the job.

Indomitable wrote:

Muzbar wrote:

bullskokie wrote:Coby, Pat & Ayo are like Gordon, Deng & Hinrich but way better!

I like keeping DDR & Vooch with these guys. You guys can see they are gelling well together!

This is a pretty ridiculous statement. No offence.

I'm gonna assume you've typed them in how you've compared them (Coby = Gordon, Pat = Deng and Ayo = Hinrich)

Let's compare:

Year 5 Coby: 15.6ppg, 4.3apg, 43%fg & 41%3pt
Year 5 Ben: 20.7ppg, 3.4apg, 45%fg & 41%3pt

Year 4 Pat: 8.6ppg, 4.2rpg, 43%fg & 34%3pt
Year 4 Loul: 17ppg, 6.3rpg, 48%fg & 36%3pt (very low volume though)

Year 3 Ayo: 6.4ppg, 1.8apg, 49%fg, 35%3pt
Year 3 Kirk: 15.9ppg, 6.3apg, 42%fg, 37%3pt

Granted this season isn't over, but I don't see any of those guys reaching those levels.

You have Vuk and Demar both eating up shots. Pat is not the same level as Young Luol.

Coby is much better finisher then Ben. He a far superior drive and kick player.

Ayo is a great defender and better in the open court.

Kirk was more polished.

BG7 seems to be one of those guys that people say if he was around 6'5" or so. He would have been unstoppable.
Still was fun to watch and clutch as they come in the league during his 5 years with the bulls.

prolific passer wrote:

Muzbar wrote:

bullskokie wrote:Coby, Pat & Ayo are like Gordon, Deng & Hinrich but way better!

I like keeping DDR & Vooch with these guys. You guys can see they are gelling well together!

This is a pretty ridiculous statement. No offence.

I'm gonna assume you've typed them in how you've compared them (Coby = Gordon, Pat = Deng and Ayo = Hinrich)

Let's compare:

Year 5 Coby: 15.6ppg, 4.3apg, 43%fg & 41%3pt
Year 5 Ben: 20.7ppg, 3.4apg, 45%fg & 41%3pt

Year 4 Pat: 8.6ppg, 4.2rpg, 43%fg & 34%3pt
Year 4 Loul: 17ppg, 6.3rpg, 48%fg & 36%3pt (very low volume though)

Year 3 Ayo: 6.4ppg, 1.8apg, 49%fg, 35%3pt
Year 3 Kirk: 15.9ppg, 6.3apg, 42%fg, 37%3pt

Granted this season isn't over, but I don't see any of those guys reaching those levels.

Imagine Gordon and Hinrich in todays game with the 3 point shot being the main shot. Deng wasn't too shabby himself but more of a 18 7 guy with good defense in his prime.

A line-up of Vuc, Deng, DDR, Gordon and Hinrich is far superior to a line-up of Vuc, Pat, DDR, Coby, Ayo IMO.

People seem to forget how good these guys were.

jump wrote:So what? Let him have his fun.

Its BLASPHEMOUS and beyond disrespectful to put Luol Deng and Kirk Hinrich, two of the most beloved franchise players of the last 25 years, in the same sentence as Pat and Ayo. Luol was at 19-7-2 in his 3rd year at same age as Pat. Went 11 consecutive years averaging 14+ ppg. We can only dream that Pat will live up to Luol’s level, he hasnt scratched that surface his entire career. Don’t even get me started on the Ayo/Kirk comp.

OP showed hes probably just a kid who wasnt alive to watch the 2004-2012 era of Bulls basketball so I’ll give him a break.

He led this team from:

Miserable first 19 games
ORTG: 108.9 (26th)
DRTG: 116 (22nd)
NRTG: -7.1 (25th)

to

Last 4 games
ORTG: 118.1 (11th)
DRTG: 110.8 (7th)
NRTG: 7.4 (5th)

In this 4 game winning streak, he's averaging:
24.3p/6.5r/6a on 40/53/87 shooting in 40mpg
TS: 65%
ORTG: 120
DRTG: 112.8
AST%: 20.5%
A/TO: 8.4

I mean, those team numbers obviously are a huge jump that warrants a small sample alert and caution - after all, Coby has done this before for a stretch before regressing back - but if the truth is somewhere in the middle, I'm thinking we have ourselves a starting level PG and a solid team - with about 60M sitting on the bench.