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sco wrote:I like to watch Ayo in games like last night where he is the 3rd option guy with nobody to pass to. He is forced to shoot more (and not stop when his confidence wanes after missing a 3 or getting blocked). Like Pat (but nowhere as problematic) he needs to develop more of a scorer's mentality. He and Vuc are the ones who benefit most when we play poor rim protecting teams, said another way, those two have very blockable shots.

If the opposing Center is attempting to block Ayo's shot, that's great because he's still at heart a PG and that means he assists our center for an automatic dunk or shooting foul. The problem is not that many guys on this team move without the ball well. If Ayo draws a crowd near the rim, he'll find the open man but TBH without the usual suspects like Deebo, nobody moves well without the ball.

https://thehighlow.io/video/ids?ids=249Iou

This isn't a Bulls specific problem IMO. The modern NBA has mentally conditioned players to just stand still by the 3P line. Did you see that botched fast break where 3 Bulls were in transition and we just passed each other the ball around the 3P line? We got nothing out of it, in the 90s that would have been a dunk and we needed the 2 points. There was also a game recently where we had a wide open layup, and Jevon passed the ball out to the 3P line.

End old man yelling at clouds mode.

Guru wrote:Would you say we have a legit starting backcourt with Ayo and Coby?

I don’t see why not? We need a frontcourt and star wing more than a guard. Obviously a Shai would be much better, but we’ve got a solid guard rotation with the 2 most pricey guys out. I even like Bitim as a project.

We really need a 6’8+ ballhandler who can play both ends (doesn’t everybody?). And a C.

Guru wrote:Would you say we have a legit starting backcourt with Ayo and Coby?

Yes. If the other three starters on the Bulls were Jokic, Gordon, and MPJ, or Porzingis, Tatum, and Brown, that squad would be a title contender.

Now, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't wish to upgrade one or both of those positions. Of course I would. Coby and Ayo currently are good enough not to be a problem, but they are not yet good enough to be the solutions. Still, that's a big step forward for them. I would not have written that at the start of this year.

I’m more surprised by Ayo’s rise than Coby’s.

That 3 ball is flat out real and impressive.

I’ll say it. We have our backcourt.

Ayo is killing it, but there's seemingly less to discuss than there was when Coby was stepping up his play. I think it's because he hasn't really added anything new, he's just refined the things he's already good at.

Probably my favorite player on the roster tied with Caruso. A major W from AKME, a rarity.

Ayo since Feb. 1

17 PPG, 3 RPG, 5 APG, 1 SPG, 0.5 BPG on .50/.43/.82 shooting with 2 TOPG on 37 MPG

GoBlue72391 wrote:Ayo is killing it, but there's seemingly less to discuss than there was when Coby was stepping up his play. I think it's because he hasn't really added anything new, he's just refined the things he's already good at.

Probably my favorite player on the roster tied with Caruso. A major W from AKME, a rarity.

I see it exactly the opposite. But that's just me. The good news is they both look like quality NBA players.

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MrSparkle wrote:

Guru wrote:Would you say we have a legit starting backcourt with Ayo and Coby?

I don’t see why not? We need a frontcourt and star wing more than a guard. Obviously a Shai would be much better, but we’ve got a solid guard rotation with the 2 most pricey guys out. I even like Bitim as a project.

We really need a 6’8+ ballhandler who can play both ends (doesn’t everybody?). And a C.

That's what Pat was supposed to be -_-

And Vuc was supposed to be our C. He is our C, technically.

Ice Man wrote:

Guru wrote:Would you say we have a legit starting backcourt with Ayo and Coby?

Yes. If the other three starters on the Bulls were Jokic, Gordon, and MPJ, or Porzingis, Tatum, and Brown, that squad would be a title contender.

Now, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't wish to upgrade one or both of those positions. Of course I would. Coby and Ayo currently are good enough not to be a problem, but they are not yet good enough to be the solutions. Still, that's a big step forward for them. I would not have written that at the start of this year.

I think ideally you wouldn't want both of them as starters, you'd want one of your guards to be more of a high-level guy. Unless of course, as you said, we had the Nuggets or Celtics core around them.

The Jrue Holiday comparison is still looking pretty solid. I had doubts due to his 3 ball but the evolution of his shot this season to now have a solid 3PT shot off the dribble might change everything.

It moves him from great 3 & D piece to legit 3rd option type.

jordanwilliams6 wrote:The Jrue Holiday comparison is still looking pretty solid. I had doubts due to his 3 ball but the evolution of his shot this season to now have a solid 3PT shot off the dribble might change everything.

It moves him from great 3 & D piece to legit 3rd option type.

IDK, Ayo seems pretty average on defense. I feel like he came in and had tough assignments, but I don't see much difference between him and Coby, who IMO is also average.

sco wrote:

jordanwilliams6 wrote:The Jrue Holiday comparison is still looking pretty solid. I had doubts due to his 3 ball but the evolution of his shot this season to now have a solid 3PT shot off the dribble might change everything.

It moves him from great 3 & D piece to legit 3rd option type.

IDK, Ayo seems pretty average on defense. I feel like he came in and had tough assignments, but I don't see much difference between him and Coby, who IMO is also average.

He’s still easily an above average defender for me. The challenge will be keeping his defense at that level as he expends more energy on the offensive end.

[quote="jordanwilliams6":****][quote="sco":****][quote="jordanwilliams6":****]The Jrue Holiday comparison is still looking pretty solid. I had doubts due to his 3 ball but the evolution of his shot this season to now have a solid 3PT shot off the dribble might change everything.

It moves him from great 3 & D piece to legit 3rd option type.[/quote:****]
IDK, Ayo seems pretty average on defense. I feel like he came in and had tough assignments, but I don't see much difference between him and Coby, who IMO is also average.[/quote:****]
He’s still easily an above average defender for me. The challenge will be keeping his defense at that level as he expends more energy on the offensive end.[/quote:****]
I like Ayo's D a lot still. He fights on screens and keeps guys in front. I've never seen 2 young guys on the same team make an in season jump like this. We have a real backcourt to build around

How much is Ayo worth if we traded him?

Chi town wrote:How much is Ayo worth if we traded him?

Man, I gotta think something between 7-12th pick. He's a proven starting 3-D guard who is young and on a cheap deal.

sco wrote:

Chi town wrote:How much is Ayo worth if we traded him?

Man, I gotta think something between 7-12th pick. He's a proven starting 3-D guard who is young and on a cheap deal.

No way. Not even in this draft.

DuckIII wrote:

sco wrote:

Chi town wrote:How much is Ayo worth if we traded him?

Man, I gotta think something between 7-12th pick. He's a proven starting 3-D guard who is young and on a cheap deal.

No way. Not even in this draft.

Yeah, even if he possibly SHOULD be worth that much in trade, he almost surely isn't.

League Circles wrote:

DuckIII wrote:

sco wrote:Man, I gotta think something between 7-12th pick. He's a proven starting 3-D guard who is young and on a cheap deal.

No way. Not even in this draft.

Yeah, even if he possibly SHOULD be worth that much in trade, he almost surely isn't.

Correct. NBA teams attribute much more value to lottery picks than they do starting quality combo guards. Even young ones.

We are fortunate to have Ayo and so cheaply. But players comparable to him can be found in a variety of ways that do not involve risking the upside and controlled cost of a lottery pick.

DuckIII wrote:

League Circles wrote:

DuckIII wrote:
No way. Not even in this draft.

Yeah, even if he possibly SHOULD be worth that much in trade, he almost surely isn't.

Correct. NBA teams attribute much more value to lottery picks than they do starting quality combo guards. Even young ones.

We are fortunate to have Ayo and so cheaply. But players comparable to him can be found in a variety of ways that do not involve risking the upside and controlled cost of a lottery pick.

Yep. I’d much rather have Ayo than a 7-12 pick in a draft like this.

We are stacked at guard with Lavine returning. Caruso still here and Lonzo apparently coming back.

Ayo for a big would be a good trade. I’d prefer trading Caruso for that big. Ideally, Caruso for a Tari Eason type of player. Or a C that rim protects.

That looked so clean. I think it’s here to stay and he has more moves like that coming.

Ayo had 4 buckets lastnight that were not 3s or layups. He’s starting to expand his bag.

I am convinced Ayo can put up a highly efficient 20ppg. As soon as next season.