Ayo Dosunmu has leveled up

[PaKii94]

I'm trying to think of a player comparison for him for a similar archetype of player. The one that I have in my mind is jrue holiday lite BUT ayo doesn't have the opportunity to run the offense, ayos efficiency is better but much worse defense.

Caruso? But he's a much better defender and a much worse offensive player


Who is a rim driver, hits 3s, can move the ball but isn't a floor general, play defense but isn't game changing (caruso)? No names are popping up in my head.

[rosenthall]

I'm trying to think of a player comparison for him for a similar archetype of player. The one that I have in my mind is jrue holiday lite BUT ayo doesn't have the opportunity to run the offense, ayos efficiency is better but much worse defense.

Caruso? But he's a much better defender and a much worse offensive player


Who is a rim driver, hits 3s, can move the ball but isn't a floor general, play defense but isn't game changing (caruso)? No names are popping up in my head.

I think Leandro Barbosa is the best comparison I've seen so far. Big, long point guard who's very athletic in a straight line but doesn't change speeds well in the half-court. Strong defensively and decent floor general but not spectacular in that area. Solid rotation player that can play in good 5 man lineups in the playoffs but not a core player.

[HomoSapien]

I'm trying to think of a player comparison for him for a similar archetype of player. The one that I have in my mind is jrue holiday lite BUT ayo doesn't have the opportunity to run the offense, ayos efficiency is better but much worse defense.

Caruso? But he's a much better defender and a much worse offensive player


Who is a rim driver, hits 3s, can move the ball but isn't a floor general, play defense but isn't game changing (caruso)? No names are popping up in my head.

I see some Dumars in his game, personally.

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No doubt in my mind this guy is going to max out whatever his potential is. I think he has a good shot at becoming a consistent 15 and 5 guy.

[PJSteven22]

I'm trying to think of a player comparison for him for a similar archetype of player. The one that I have in my mind is jrue holiday lite BUT ayo doesn't have the opportunity to run the offense, ayos efficiency is better but much worse defense.

Caruso? But he's a much better defender and a much worse offensive player


Who is a rim driver, hits 3s, can move the ball but isn't a floor general, play defense but isn't game changing (caruso)? No names are popping up in my head.

I think Leandro Barbosa is the best comparison I've seen so far. Big, long point guard who's very athletic in a straight line but doesn't change speeds well in the half-court. Strong defensively and decent floor general but not spectacular in that area. Solid rotation player that can play in good 5 man lineups in the playoffs but not a core player.

He’s nothing like Barbosa. Barbosa was a mediocre defender and a streaky scorer. Also Ayo is bigger than Barbosa. He reminds me of Dejounte Murray/E’Twuan Moore hybrid.

[RSP83]

This last 10 good game stretch by Ayo is very good for his confidence. Bulls is also 5-5 over the last 10 games. I think it's been a floor-raising stretch for him. Which should also be a ceiling raiser for this team.

[DuckIII]

He’s just going to keep getting better. He’s always had a much more diverse game and higher offensive ceiling than this board’s “try hard” conventional wisdom gave him credit for. We’ll keep seeing more over time.

He keeps adding. It’s what he does. It’s what he has always done.

[sco]

It's good to see his 3pt shot coming around. I'll need to see it continue for the rest of the season to be a believer. That said, it is probably coincidental, but like Coby last season, Ayo went from being a starter earlier in his career to being on the precipice of being out of the 9 man rotation, and then when the opportunity presented itself, he made a leap (maybe out of necessity). I've said this before, I root for guys with good work ethics because they eventually have success. The thing I saw with Ayo is that his game is built on his ability to attack the rim, but too often he would stop attacking after a miss and then go quiet the rest of the game. When he has success, the rest of his game becomes leveled up. Seems like a confidence thing.

It would be amazing if he could truly keep this level of performance and bring that as a starter level talent. A guy who he has reminded me of this season is Divincenzo, who has gotten his chance for higher utilization and been playing like an allstar while the rest of that team has been injured.

[jmajew]

I think Ayo is not the same player as Jimmy Butler, but I see his career going on a similar trajectory as Butlers. I think Ayo has the same work ethic as Jimmy. In year 3 Jimmy got a massive boost in usage and then year 4 he exploded. I think Ayo may be on a similar path. I don't think he will be an all-star, though I do think it is possible (10% probability).

[othawhitemeat]

He’s just going to keep getting better. He’s always had a much more diverse game and higher offensive ceiling than this board’s “try hard” conventional wisdom gave him credit for. We’ll keep seeing more over time.

He keeps adding. It’s what he does. It’s what he has always done.

100% agree, Duck. I think you and I have always been some of the top supporters on the Ayo express train. Like someone else said, he will max out his ability. As an Illini fanatic, I can just recall the type of person he is, the amount of effort he provided, the leadership, etc... I don't recall too many players with his work ethic. His number one ability was always his ability to be a fast-break machine, but I think he deferred too much in past because he is not an elite athlete, but a hard-working teammate, glue guy that will keep getting better. With Zach out, he only has to defer to DeMar all the time now and maybe will continue to develop. I don't think he will reach Jimmy Butler's ability, but I think he will continue to build up if the Bulls keep giving him to do so. The dude has always had the mid-range to finishing down, but if he can add the 3 on top of defense, watch out. I could see a little bit of Jrue-lite/Shai lite combo. I don't think he will be as good as either, but can have a little bit of both and be a borderline all-star player in time if the Bulls let him continue to cook.

[othawhitemeat]

I think Ayo is not the same player as Jimmy Butler, but I see his career going on a similar trajectory as Butlers. I think Ayo has the same work ethic as Jimmy. In year 3 Jimmy got a massive boost in usage and then year 4 he exploded. I think Ayo may be on a similar path. I don't think he will be an all-star, though I do think it is possible (10% probability).

Just saw this after my post in response to Duck. Dude has that legendary work-ethic.

[DuckIII]

He’s just going to keep getting better. He’s always had a much more diverse game and higher offensive ceiling than this board’s “try hard” conventional wisdom gave him credit for. We’ll keep seeing more over time.

He keeps adding. It’s what he does. It’s what he has always done.

100% agree, Duck. I think you and I have always been some of the top supporters on the Ayo express train. Like someone else said, he will max out his ability. As an Illini fanatic, I can just recall the type of person he is, the amount of effort he provided, the leadership, etc... I don't recall too many players with his work ethic. His number one ability was always his ability to be a fast-break machine, but I think he deferred too much in past because he is not an elite athlete, but a hard-working teammate, glue guy that will keep getting better. With Zach out, he only has to defer to DeMar all the time now and maybe will continue to develop. I don't think he will reach Jimmy Butler's ability, but I think he will continue to build up if the Bulls keep giving him to do so. The dude has always had the mid-range to finishing down, but if he can add the 3 on top of defense, watch out. I could see a little bit of Jrue-lite/Shai lite combo. I don't think he will be as good as either, but can have a little bit of both and be a borderline all-star player in time if the Bulls let him continue to cook.

I agree with everything you wrote except his ceiling. I see him maxing out at quality starter. I don’t see an all-star type player here. What I see is a mid-first round talent who will reach whatever his full potential happens to be.

But he’s a winner and I’ve never seen a college player evolve his game as much as Ayo did at Illinois. Every year he looked like a different player. It’s happening again in the NBA. He’s a very useful talent and the type of person you want in the locker room setting the tone.

Not untouchable but we are certainly fortunate to have cured the mistake of so many dumb FOs when we drafted him 38th. Still shocked he went that low and I’m convinced it was overly impacted by his awful game against Loyola Chicago.

[FriedRise]

Ayo has improved his 3pt shooting by 10 percentage points compared to last season, while increasing his volume.

3P%: 31% > 41%
3PA: 2.4 > 3.2 <- would not mind seeing this number go UP

He's already made TEN more 3pt shots than last year in 28 fewer games (780 minutes).

Quick release, accurate, decisive. Peter Patton for MVP!

[GoBlue72391]

The fact that we've got two young and upcoming guards in Coby and Ayo is one of the few bright spots of this season. I don't know what kind of ceiling I would put on Ayo, but I know at minimum he's a solid starter/great bench piece, but he'll almost certainly never be an all-star barring an unforeseen Coby-esque jump.

Maybe something like Kirk Hinrich as his ceiling. Though his defense isn't at Kirk's level and probably never will be, his offense will likely be a bit better. But numbers-wise Kirk was like a 15 and 6 guy in his prime and I can see that being a reasonable ceiling for Ayo, perhaps even a little higher.

[sco]

The fact that we've got two young and upcoming guards in Coby and Ayo is one of the few bright spots of this season. I don't know what kind of ceiling I would put on Ayo, but I know at minimum he's a solid starter/great bench piece, but he'll almost certainly never be an all-star barring an unforeseen Coby-esque jump.

Maybe something like Kirk Hinrich as his ceiling. Though his defense isn't at Kirk's level and probably never will be, his offense will likely be a bit better. But numbers-wise Kirk was like a 15 and 6 guy in his prime and I can see that being a reasonable ceiling for Ayo, perhaps even a little higher.

Even after seeing this mini-upswing this season, I would be thrilled if Ayo became prime Kirk Hinrich. IIRC (which may be wrong) but isn't Kirk the Bulls 2nd all-time 3pt baskets maker (which I find more of a negative on the Bulls than a positive for Kirk).

From a team composition perspective, being able to have a good defender at the 2 spot next season if we are trotting DDR at the 3 next season is a great thing. Although I fully expect Zach back for at least half of next season.

[GoBlue72391]

Ayo since the start of the new year:

13.8 PPG, 2.6 RPG and 3.0 APG on .548/.494./.808 with a 66 TS% throughout 20 games with 30.4 MPG.

Also 0.8 SPG, 0.9 BPG, and 1.5 TOPG

[GoBlue72391]

The fact that we've got two young and upcoming guards in Coby and Ayo is one of the few bright spots of this season. I don't know what kind of ceiling I would put on Ayo, but I know at minimum he's a solid starter/great bench piece, but he'll almost certainly never be an all-star barring an unforeseen Coby-esque jump.

Maybe something like Kirk Hinrich as his ceiling. Though his defense isn't at Kirk's level and probably never will be, his offense will likely be a bit better. But numbers-wise Kirk was like a 15 and 6 guy in his prime and I can see that being a reasonable ceiling for Ayo, perhaps even a little higher.

Even after seeing this mini-upswing this season, I would be thrilled if Ayo became prime Kirk Hinrich. IIRC (which may be wrong) but isn't Kirk the Bulls 2nd all-time 3pt baskets maker (which I find more of a negative on the Bulls than a positive for Kirk).

From a team composition perspective, being able to have a good defender at the 2 spot next season if we are trotting DDR at the 3 next season is a great thing. Although I fully expect Zach back for at least half of next season.

I don't know if he'll ever become as good as prime Kirk just because Kirk's defense was so incredible and Ayo's is solid but not great, but I can see him reaching a higher offensive ceiling than prime Kirk. Maybe not as many APG since Ayo doesn't get much opportunity to run point these days.

Kirk's 3-point record is more due to his longevity with the franchise than him being an absolute sniper.

[2weekswithpay]

I'm trying to think of a player comparison for him for a similar archetype of player. The one that I have in my mind is jrue holiday lite BUT ayo doesn't have the opportunity to run the offense, ayos efficiency is better but much worse defense.

Caruso? But he's a much better defender and a much worse offensive player


Who is a rim driver, hits 3s, can move the ball but isn't a floor general, play defense but isn't game changing (caruso)? No names are popping up in my head.

Bruce Brown? His 3pt percentage is down but he was 36% and 40% in the previous two seasons.

[RastaBull]

The fact that we've got two young and upcoming guards in Coby and Ayo is one of the few bright spots of this season. I don't know what kind of ceiling I would put on Ayo, but I know at minimum he's a solid starter/great bench piece, but he'll almost certainly never be an all-star barring an unforeseen Coby-esque jump.

Maybe something like Kirk Hinrich as his ceiling. Though his defense isn't at Kirk's level and probably never will be, his offense will likely be a bit better. But numbers-wise Kirk was like a 15 and 6 guy in his prime and I can see that being a reasonable ceiling for Ayo, perhaps even a little higher.

Even after seeing this mini-upswing this season, I would be thrilled if Ayo became prime Kirk Hinrich. IIRC (which may be wrong) but isn't Kirk the Bulls 2nd all-time 3pt baskets maker (which I find more of a negative on the Bulls than a positive for Kirk).

From a team composition perspective, being able to have a good defender at the 2 spot next season if we are trotting DDR at the 3 next season is a great thing. Although I fully expect Zach back for at least half of next season.

I don't know if he'll ever become as good as prime Kirk just because Kirk's defense was so incredible and Ayo's is solid but not great, but I can see him reaching a higher offensive ceiling than prime Kirk. Maybe not as many APG since Ayo doesn't get much opportunity to run point these days.

Kirk's 3-point record is more due to his longevity with the franchise than him being an absolute sniper.

There's a lot of nuance to be had from DDR and AC remaining on this team. They are quality impact veteran players themselves no doubt (DDR 6-time all-star, 3 all nba teams, 15-year career ... AC 1st team All-Defense and a champion).

More specifically, they each know the roles and have excelled in the roles that we'd love to see Coby and Ayo take. DDR and Coby have a great chemistry (and we know DDR has the reputation of forging real connections with young guys). AC has been so vocal and has such an esteemed role in the clubhouse, but I think you can see some direct influence from AC onto Ayo defensive discipline (and DT as well).

No matter what happens next year, I'm looking at those four as the guys I'm watching and rooting for the most: Coby/Ayo/DDR/AC. They've been playing really great together for last 1.5 months.

[sco]

Even after seeing this mini-upswing this season, I would be thrilled if Ayo became prime Kirk Hinrich. IIRC (which may be wrong) but isn't Kirk the Bulls 2nd all-time 3pt baskets maker (which I find more of a negative on the Bulls than a positive for Kirk).

From a team composition perspective, being able to have a good defender at the 2 spot next season if we are trotting DDR at the 3 next season is a great thing. Although I fully expect Zach back for at least half of next season.

I don't know if he'll ever become as good as prime Kirk just because Kirk's defense was so incredible and Ayo's is solid but not great, but I can see him reaching a higher offensive ceiling than prime Kirk. Maybe not as many APG since Ayo doesn't get much opportunity to run point these days.

Kirk's 3-point record is more due to his longevity with the franchise than him being an absolute sniper.

There's a lot of nuance to be had from DDR and AC remaining on this team. They are quality impact veteran players themselves no doubt (DDR 6-time all-star, 3 all nba teams, 15-year career ... AC 1st team All-Defense and a champion).

More specifically, they each know the roles and have excelled in the roles that we'd love to see Coby and Ayo take. DDR and Coby have a great chemistry (and we know DDR has the reputation of forging real connections with young guys). AC has been so vocal and has such an esteemed role in the clubhouse, but I think you can see some direct influence from AC onto Ayo defensive discipline (and DT as well).

No matter what happens next year, I'm looking at those four as the guys I'm watching and rooting for the most: Coby/Ayo/DDR/AC. They've been playing really great together for last 1.5 months.

As much as I am mad at AK for the Vuc trade blunder, I give him credit for bringing AC and DD on to this team. IMO the impact that those two guys have had on our young guys extends far beyond what they both contribute on the court (which is a ton!). If somehow Coby, Ayo, Pat and Terry all turn into above-average starting caliber players, that would be a near-miracle given where all 4 guys looked like they were headed going into last season.

[MGB8]

I'm trying to think of a player comparison for him for a similar archetype of player. The one that I have in my mind is jrue holiday lite BUT ayo doesn't have the opportunity to run the offense, ayos efficiency is better but much worse defense.

Caruso? But he's a much better defender and a much worse offensive player


Who is a rim driver, hits 3s, can move the ball but isn't a floor general, play defense but isn't game changing (caruso)? No names are popping up in my head.

Gary Harris?