PG - David Robinson and Tim Duncan deliver

[FriedRise]

Someone from the general board made the point that KAT and Gobert seem like this elite front-court, but then looked very weak against two actual bigs in Vuc and Drummond, which makes you wonder how these guys would fare against true 90s era bigs.

I couldn't help but think that as well. Vuc and Drummond are sort of throw back in a way (more-so Drummond) and they just rattled Gobert in particular with their size and strength.

Wait. How did KAT look weak? 33 points, 3 assists and 2 blocks. Gobert... he had 16 rebounds and 12 points (he averages 14 points and 13 rebounds) . Pretty comparable to the "great game" from Drummond, although Drum outblocked him 4 to 1.

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I meant weak in terms of strength. They just looked very uncomfortable going up against physicality. This applies to Gobert more, who Drummond seemed to attack as if he was a defensive liability.

Drummond does that to almost every center. One of the reasons he's so good at rebounding is how he's able to move anybody around with ease and get to where he needs to be to grab the ball. You gotta put 2 on him if you want to secure a rebound.

[vxmike]

Anyone still think Coby isn’t better than Zach? I got roasted for suggesting that earlier this season.

Current Coby is better than current Zach, but current Coby isn't better than prime Zach was.

Coby has yet to reach his prime, so we've yet to see what his ceiling truly is. Maybe his peak will be higher than Zach's was. We'll see.

Agree. Peak Coby might not top peak Zach only due to lesser physical tools, but Coby is trending up and I’m positive Zach’s best days are behind him.

[vxmike]

Anyone still think Coby isn’t better than Zach? I got roasted for suggesting that earlier this season.

And the problem with this is, when people were saying Coby is better than Zach and is a future star after playing well for 5-10 games it was freaking nuts, even if it ends up being true in the long run. I specifically remember telling people to pump the breaks, it's only been 3 games, 5 games, 10 games or whatever.

The sample size is big enough now for those claims to have some merit, but people were making these proclamations after like two weeks of high level play. It's absurd to make that kind of determination off such a small sample size for a 5th year player who had never flashed star level ability prior to that.

It was the intangibles and effort on D that made me believe Coby was going to end the year as the better player. Zach lacks both and at this stage of his career has relegated himself to just a shooter far too often. Coby attacks the basket more plus brings a ton more positive energy.

[GoBlue72391]

"We have enough"

"We've had enough"

[ThreeMileAllan]

I like Zach but Cobys bball iq is already way ahead of Zachs peak bball iq.

And honestly that's the one thing Zach can't seem to make big gains on

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[Stratmaster]

Anyone still think Coby isn’t better than Zach? I got roasted for suggesting that earlier this season.

You think this game shows Coby is better than Lavine?

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[Stratmaster]

Anyone still think Coby isn’t better than Zach? I got roasted for suggesting that earlier this season.

I don't think coby has more talent than lavine but what he brings to the table is more fitting to what we are trying to do than what lavine brings.

If lavine had better ball handling skills and decision making he would be a top tier talent. Lavine has the skills but lacks the intangibles. Coby doesn't have the top tier skills but he has the intangibles.

Coby makes the same bad decisions Zach does. Turns the ball over. Takes bad shots. When they go in, they are great.

I will say, Coby seems to have more ice in his veins and a shorter memory. But he hadn't faced the triple teams yet.

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[PaKii94]

Anyone still think Coby isn’t better than Zach? I got roasted for suggesting that earlier this season.

I don't think coby has more talent than lavine but what he brings to the table is more fitting to what we are trying to do than what lavine brings.

If lavine had better ball handling skills and decision making he would be a top tier talent. Lavine has the skills but lacks the intangibles. Coby doesn't have the top tier skills but he has the intangibles.

Coby makes the same bad decisions Zach does. Turns the ball over. Takes bad shots. When they go in, they are great.

I will say, Coby seems to have more ice in his veins and a shorter memory. But he hadn't faced the triple teams yet.

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Disagree. The proportions are different. Zach takes (technically took) bad shots a good chunk of his game. The majority of his game is tough shots outside the flow of a normal offense. Coby takes bad shots but at a much less frequency. His shots are also much more part of the offense, even the bad ones.

Also comparing Coby end game to Lavine is apples and oranges. When defense tightened and it came to crunch time Lavine was a bumbling bafoon. Years of dribbling off his leg, bad passes, drives into 3 defenders etc. he Had no skills to run the offense. Coby is developing it. He's not perfect but what he's shown this season is much better than Lavine has ever shown.

The only thing Lavine has on him is Lavine can make tough shots more consistently/efficiently (but not this season)

[sco]

I don't think coby has more talent than lavine but what he brings to the table is more fitting to what we are trying to do than what lavine brings.

If lavine had better ball handling skills and decision making he would be a top tier talent. Lavine has the skills but lacks the intangibles. Coby doesn't have the top tier skills but he has the intangibles.

Coby makes the same bad decisions Zach does. Turns the ball over. Takes bad shots. When they go in, they are great.

I will say, Coby seems to have more ice in his veins and a shorter memory. But he hadn't faced the triple teams yet.

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Disagree. The proportions are different. Zach takes (technically took) bad shots a good chunk of his game. The majority of his game is tough shots outside the flow of a normal offense. Coby takes bad shots but at a much less frequency. His shots are also much more part of the offense, even the bad ones.

Also comparing Coby end game to Lavine is apples and oranges. When defense tightened and it came to crunch time Lavine was a bumbling bafoon. Years of dribbling off his leg, bad passes, drives into 3 defenders etc. he Had no skills to run the offense. Coby is developing it. He's not perfect but what he's shown this season is much better than Lavine has ever shown.

The only thing Lavine has on him is Lavine can make tough shots more consistently/efficiently (but not this season)

I guess I'm in the "so what" camp. Coby has shown he's a capable PG and Zach is a SG. The only question I have is whether Zach can come back healthy. If so, I like that pairing. If we let DDR walk and roll with Coby, Zach, AC, PW, Vuc next season, that could be a super-fun team. Add in a Ball miracle, and I'd be engaged.

[PaKii94]

Coby makes the same bad decisions Zach does. Turns the ball over. Takes bad shots. When they go in, they are great.

I will say, Coby seems to have more ice in his veins and a shorter memory. But he hadn't faced the triple teams yet.

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Disagree. The proportions are different. Zach takes (technically took) bad shots a good chunk of his game. The majority of his game is tough shots outside the flow of a normal offense. Coby takes bad shots but at a much less frequency. His shots are also much more part of the offense, even the bad ones.

Also comparing Coby end game to Lavine is apples and oranges. When defense tightened and it came to crunch time Lavine was a bumbling bafoon. Years of dribbling off his leg, bad passes, drives into 3 defenders etc. he Had no skills to run the offense. Coby is developing it. He's not perfect but what he's shown this season is much better than Lavine has ever shown.

The only thing Lavine has on him is Lavine can make tough shots more consistently/efficiently (but not this season)

I guess I'm in the "so what" camp. Coby has shown he's a capable PG and Zach is a SG. The only question I have is whether Zach can come back healthy. If so, I like that pairing. If we let DDR walk and roll with Coby, Zach, AC, PW, Vuc next season, that could be a super-fun team. Add in a Ball miracle, and I'd be engaged.

So what is that Zach is just a dead end player right now. He's obviously not good enough to be a #1 but I don't think he has a skillset conducive to being a #2. His impact is minimal but he's getting paid like a star.

I have been so ready to get past the Zach Lavine era but somehow it's gotten worse. His value is so low that it's not worth trading him right now. I will have to sit through another year of "will they won't they" with such an inconsequential player

[Stratmaster]

I don't think coby has more talent than lavine but what he brings to the table is more fitting to what we are trying to do than what lavine brings.

If lavine had better ball handling skills and decision making he would be a top tier talent. Lavine has the skills but lacks the intangibles. Coby doesn't have the top tier skills but he has the intangibles.

Coby makes the same bad decisions Zach does. Turns the ball over. Takes bad shots. When they go in, they are great.

I will say, Coby seems to have more ice in his veins and a shorter memory. But he hadn't faced the triple teams yet.

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Disagree. The proportions are different. Zach takes (technically took) bad shots a good chunk of his game. The majority of his game is tough shots outside the flow of a normal offense. Coby takes bad shots but at a much less frequency. His shots are also much more part of the offense, even the bad ones.

Also comparing Coby end game to Lavine is apples and oranges. When defense tightened and it came to crunch time Lavine was a bumbling bafoon. Years of dribbling off his leg, bad passes, drives into 3 defenders etc. he Had no skills to run the offense. Coby is developing it. He's not perfect but what he's shown this season is much better than Lavine has ever shown.

The only thing Lavine has on him is Lavine can make tough shots more consistently/efficiently (but not this season)

Your first paragraph just isn't true. Coby takes more deep, early threes than Zach ever did.

Also, I have seen Coby make the same bad plays down the stretch, and he is turning the ball over at a higher rate than Lavine did. I mean, he literally did exactly what you just called out Lavine for (dribbling off his leg) a couple times just recently.

As I said, Coby seems to have more ice in his veins. But as I also said, that is yet to be seen when he starts facing double and triple teams like Zach was. And I think people have forgotten some of Zach's clutch games before Demar got here.

Again, I think Coby is great. But he hasn't gotten anywhere close to the consistent production Zach put up for 3 seasons.

Is he better than the neutered Zach we saw the first 20 games of the season? Probably. Sure, why not.

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[sco]

Disagree. The proportions are different. Zach takes (technically took) bad shots a good chunk of his game. The majority of his game is tough shots outside the flow of a normal offense. Coby takes bad shots but at a much less frequency. His shots are also much more part of the offense, even the bad ones.

Also comparing Coby end game to Lavine is apples and oranges. When defense tightened and it came to crunch time Lavine was a bumbling bafoon. Years of dribbling off his leg, bad passes, drives into 3 defenders etc. he Had no skills to run the offense. Coby is developing it. He's not perfect but what he's shown this season is much better than Lavine has ever shown.

The only thing Lavine has on him is Lavine can make tough shots more consistently/efficiently (but not this season)

I guess I'm in the "so what" camp. Coby has shown he's a capable PG and Zach is a SG. The only question I have is whether Zach can come back healthy. If so, I like that pairing. If we let DDR walk and roll with Coby, Zach, AC, PW, Vuc next season, that could be a super-fun team. Add in a Ball miracle, and I'd be engaged.

So what is that Zach is just a dead end player right now. He's obviously not good enough to be a #1 but I don't think he has a skillset conducive to being a #2. His impact is minimal but he's getting paid like a star.

I have been so ready to get past the Zach Lavine era but somehow it's gotten worse. His value is so low that it's not worth trading him right now. I will have to sit through another year of "will they won't they" with such an inconsequential player

It's pretty clear that we won't be able to bring in a true #1 option next season, so dumping Zach doesn't accomplish much. Per my note I could see Coby, Zach, AC, PW, Vuc as a decent line-up next season. And I know there are BIG maybe's here, but maybe Zach comes back healthy and maybe Zach is happy in a new role without Demar (who maybe gone), and MAYBE we see some Coby-like progression from other young guys, and MAYBE we get a Ball miracle.

[Stratmaster]

Coby makes the same bad decisions Zach does. Turns the ball over. Takes bad shots. When they go in, they are great.

I will say, Coby seems to have more ice in his veins and a shorter memory. But he hadn't faced the triple teams yet.

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Disagree. The proportions are different. Zach takes (technically took) bad shots a good chunk of his game. The majority of his game is tough shots outside the flow of a normal offense. Coby takes bad shots but at a much less frequency. His shots are also much more part of the offense, even the bad ones.

Also comparing Coby end game to Lavine is apples and oranges. When defense tightened and it came to crunch time Lavine was a bumbling bafoon. Years of dribbling off his leg, bad passes, drives into 3 defenders etc. he Had no skills to run the offense. Coby is developing it. He's not perfect but what he's shown this season is much better than Lavine has ever shown.

The only thing Lavine has on him is Lavine can make tough shots more consistently/efficiently (but not this season)

I guess I'm in the "so what" camp. Coby has shown he's a capable PG and Zach is a SG. The only question I have is whether Zach can come back healthy. If so, I like that pairing. If we let DDR walk and roll with Coby, Zach, AC, PW, Vuc next season, that could be a super-fun team. Add in a Ball miracle, and I'd be engaged.

I agree 100%. But Demar isn't going anywhere

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[Andi Obst]

DeMar sounded like a man who knows that he'll get whatever he wants from the Bulls. He's this year's Vuc, only better and more expensive. Of course he's getting that extension.

People acting like AKME aren't the most predictable FO ever.

[HoopsterJones]

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