AK has “green light” to rebuild - doesn’t wanna

[League Circles]

To the people that want to "rebuild" (which means tank if anyone is remotely honest with themselves), we've already achieved the outcome of that. We have a young star without flaws that is locked up on a cheap deal. Coby is ABSOLUTELY equivalent at this point, on his contract, to having a top 1-3 draft pick, which is better than you get when you "achieve" the worst record in the league. We already struck gold from an underperforming mine and people want to keep digging instead of cash in.

[FriedRise]

We obviously don't have their championship record, but seeing where the Warriors are this year with so many of their players slumping/declining, it's funny listening to other execs talk about making the play-in as a goal.

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[Infinity2152]

Question: Isn't rebuild exactly what he's done? Since he's been here we have a different PG, SF, PF, and center and completely revamped bench. If you change pretty much every player except two, how is that not rebuilding a team? People just don't like what he's rebuilt it to, but the idea he won't change the team is insane. Most of the current Bulls have been added the past three years, many have 2 years or less.

The Bulls haven't traded an active player on the roster in 30 months. Traded Larry Nance Jr. for Derrick Jones Jr.

They absolutely rebuilt the team 3 years ago. They've literally done nothing since then. And that's after seeing the team perform at a mediocre (at best) level for 2 years. They deserve all the blame coming to them.

They completely rebuilt the team. The team was playing great then Ball got injured. Ball was supposed to be coming back, we had to give him the chance, since we're still paying him $20 mill. So get rid of everyone else the very next year because the team is not performing up to par minus a critical starter? They've done a lot since then given their cap constraints, but big free agent moves were out of the question. That leaves trades. Trade players you just added and getting back less sounds like going backwards, especially when the main problem, the $20 mill hole in our cap still exists. Trade Lavine or Debo for bums and picks last year, that team is still not contending and still not bottoming out either. So they've done quite a few small moves to work around it. I wouldn't call adding Beverly, Caruso, Drummond, Craig, Carter doing nothing, those are good players. The team guys want us to have now, all draft picks and prospects, none of them are joining that team in free agency or if bought out.

Funny how they take so much crap for overpaying Zach, but get no credit for the great deals they got on Coby White, Caruso, and Drummond. If all four (Zach, Coby, Caruso, Drummond) were all paid their market value, the cap total between the four is probably close to the same, maybe less.

[RyanJamari]

You guys all crack me up.

"If I can't have my favorite team I don't want one at all".

"Let's collect as many poor draft picks as possible and "build around" them by letting them develop in roster spots we won't have or by trading for players like "aging" Demar, Vuc and Caruso" (wait ...)

"Mediocrity is unforgivable and clearly way worse than last place" (2004 called, it wants it's perspective on, and rules governing the draft process back"

Carry on lol.

How they all forget. lol


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[RyanJamari]

oh no not mockery from Brian Windhorst, now players won't want to play here cause Windhorst and Lowe made fun of us.

1st round picks traded this deadline:

2024 1st - LAC 2024 1st, OKC 2024 1st

2025 1st -

2026 1st -

2027 1st - DAL 2027 1st, Miami 2027 1st (lottery protected)


in total 4 first round picks were traded, 2 likely very late 2024 picks and two 2027 picks.

If you're wanting to re-build - these assets do pretty much nothing for you

Being mediocre is better than being the Pistons for the last 10 years. That gets AK fired.


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[DuckIII]

It’s crazy that AKME is actually a downgrade from GarPax. Just let that sink in for a minute.

It’s really not. Gar may have been a Grade A tool, and when Pax stepped back Gar was a huge failure, but Pax and “GarPax” ranged from average/competent to downright very good, depending on the time frame.

It’s just that they weren’t great. And indeed we ultimately did need to go in a different direction. But it was always a major risk - and in my opinion a likelihood - that their replacement would be worse.

Which happened.

The “crazy” part is that the replacement is infinitely worse, rather than just simply worse. I never expected to end up with the worst FO in franchise history and arguably the worst in the NBA.

[DuckIII]

Funny how they take so much crap for overpaying Zach, but get no credit for the great deals they got on Coby White, Caruso, and Drummond.

That’s false. We routinely talk about the great deals we have for Coby, AC and Drummond. Ayo too.

[League Circles]

It’s crazy that AKME is actually a downgrade from GarPax. Just let that sink in for a minute.

It’s really not. Far may have been a Grade A tool, and when Pax stepped back Gar was a huge failure, but Pax and “GarPax” ranged from competent to downright very good, depending on the time frame.

It’s just that they weren’t great. And indeed we ultimately did need to go in a different direction. But it was always a major risk - and in my opinion a likelihood - that their replacement would be worse.

Which happened.

The “crazy” part is that they are infinitely worse, rather than just simply worse. I never expected to end up with the worst FO in franchise history and arguably the worst in the NBA.

It's pretty hard to grade the post-Rose part of the Garpax era as anything other than atrocious and far worse than the AK era so far. Some of the least talented rosters I've seen in the nba. Jerian Grants as far as the eye could see. That said, overall I do still think Paxson was better than AK and also thought it was likely his replacement would be worse than him.

[Dan Z]

AK: "I'm always going to look at how to improve the team. For now, what makes us more competitive and for the future. We didn't have those options available."

It's funny that he said "and for the future". What future is he talking about? One with an aging DDR and Vucevic? A roster that has a limited ceiling that won't go very far?

He means this season. These are the time increments in which he think.

I’m not trying to be flippant here either. I mean it. This FO thinks in terms of the short term future. He’s talking about being competitive next game, next week, maybe in May.

He’s not talking about or thinking about anything else when he talks about the future. I can’t emphasize how awful a trait that is in a GM.

It's terrible. If Ainge thought this way he would've hung on to KG/Pierce and never got the draft picks that lead to Brown and Tatum.

[Infinity2152]

Funny how they take so much crap for overpaying Zach, but get no credit for the great deals they got on Coby White, Caruso, and Drummond.

That’s false. We routinely talk about the great deals we have for Coby, AC and Drummond. Ayo too.

What do you want to bet the comments about Zach's contract FAR exceeds any praise they get for good signings? Most of the room wants to trade two of three good contracts. The number of posts damning AKME's moves vs mentioning the positive ones are at least 10 to 1.

Good contracts signed: Beverly, Drummond, Caruso, Ball (until injured, he was a great deal), Craig, DJJ, Javonte Green, Coby White, Derozan (has made two All Star games, was in MVP running and been great for us)
Bad contracts: Let's say Lavine, Vucevic (twice), if you want to call a guy who's averaged about 18pts/11 rbs a bad contract at $20 mill, got DJJ, a first (value yet to be determined, a second, and DJJ for Lauri

Total moves, seems they've made more good than bad, just didn't turn out as great as people expected a team with no top 10 player to be.

[DuckIII]

Funny how they take so much crap for overpaying Zach, but get no credit for the great deals they got on Coby White, Caruso, and Drummond.

That’s false. We routinely talk about the great deals we have for Coby, AC and Drummond. Ayo too.

What do you want to bet the comments about Zach's contract FAR exceeds any praise they get for good signings?

$0. People don’t start threads on topics like “Coby White’s Contract is Good.” What exactly would the discussion be about?

People discuss areas for change and improvement.

Good contracts signed: Beverly, Drummond, Caruso, Ball (until injured, he was a great deal), Craig, DJJ, Javonte Green, Coby White, Derozan (has made two All Star games, was in MVP running and been great for us)
Bad contracts: Let's say Lavine, Vucevic (twice), if you want to call a guy who's averaged about 18pts/11 rbs a bad contract at $20 mill, got DJJ, a first (value yet to be determined, a second, and DJJ for Lauri

Total moves, seems they've made more good than bad, just didn't turn out as great as people expected a team with no top 10 player to be.

I’ll do you one better. I think Vuc’s recent deal is the only “bad” contract they negotiated. All the other deals are reasonable, downright good, or at minimum justifiable.

None of that is the issue.

[dougthonus]

It’s crazy that AKME is actually a downgrade from GarPax. Just let that sink in for a minute.

It’s extremely depressing to think of how much better off we would be if they just kept GarPax. Given their deep infatuation with Iowa State, GarPax probably would have drafted Halliburton. It’s not crazy to think the Bulls’ current team could have been Coby, Halliburton, Lavine, Wagner, Markkanen plus future picks and cap flexibility.

I actually think GarPax (and particularly Pax) were pretty darn great. Winning at the highest levels in the NBA is mostly lucking into a super-duper star. There is no way to plan to get one, there just isn't. If you get one, you got lucky in some way. The Bulls had two years they got lucky and quasi-had one with Rose (whom statistically was more top 10 than top 3), and had the best record in the NBA both times.

Their reign was characterized by best in class drafting (especially after seeing that Lauri and Coby panned out in the long run, like absolutely ridiculously good drafting if you actually go pick by pick over a long period with all franchises), great cap management, great combination of managing for the present and future and money.

They did several things that were really creative financially, the year they signed Brewer/Korver/Watson to deals with an extra non guaranteed year was the first time a team had done so purposefully to create trade assets out of non guaranteed deals and became a model other teams followed and the NBA outlawed. They weren't afraid to admit mistakes and trade guys early, even if they weren't 100% accurate, rather than losing for nothing, they got assets back for: Jamal Crawford, Eddy Curry, Thabo Sefolosha, James Johnson, Tyrus Thomas, Luol Deng, and Nikola Mirotic (to a lesser extent Doug McDermott sorta, in who they did a trash for trash for Payne). Same was true of Jimmy Butler (though many fans were sad about that one and you can certainly argue it didn't work out well, but they didn't want to pay him a super max so cashed out).

They didn't get caught buying into their own BS and were willing to pivot and make hard choices under the constraints that ownership placed on them. They were probably about as good as any GM group is reasonably ever going to be in balancing, present, future, and finances.

It's a shame that Bulls nation won't really ever appreciate them fairly because they will forever take for granted all they did well and complain (largely without merit) about what they weren't able to do.

[Dan Z]

We obviously don't have their championship record, but seeing where the Warriors are this year with so many of their players slumping/declining, it's funny listening to other execs talk about making the play-in as a goal.

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What else is he suppose to say?

They weren't going to trade Curry, Klay or Draymond and I can't imagine a trade that would turn them into a serious contender. Keeping Kuminga seems like the right move.

That means all they can really do is continue forward with their roster and hope things improve. Not great, but understandable given the situation. The off season is where they have to make some decisions because Klay is a free agent.

[Infinity2152]

That’s false. We routinely talk about the great deals we have for Coby, AC and Drummond. Ayo too.

What do you want to bet the comments about Zach's contract FAR exceeds any praise they get for good signings?

$0. People don’t start threads on topics like “Coby White’s Contract is Good.” What exactly would the discussion be about?

People discuss areas for change and improvement.

Good contracts signed: Beverly, Drummond, Caruso, Ball (until injured, he was a great deal), Craig, DJJ, Javonte Green, Coby White, Derozan (has made two All Star games, was in MVP running and been great for us)
Bad contracts: Let's say Lavine, Vucevic (twice), if you want to call a guy who's averaged about 18pts/11 rbs a bad contract at $20 mill, got DJJ, a first (value yet to be determined, a second, and DJJ for Lauri

Total moves, seems they've made more good than bad, just didn't turn out as great as people expected a team with no top 10 player to be.

I’ll do you one better. I think Vuc’s recent deal is the only “bad” contract they negotiated. All the other deals are reasonable, downright good, or at minimum justifiable.

None of that is the issue.

Bro, believe me, i wish the Bulls had more success over the last couple of years too. Way I look at is this: coming in as a new GM with a directive to win and a 25 pt scorer already on the team, you can do two things, either throw the farm and TRY to get an A+, 1A type player, or get two A-B+ players and build around that. Adding Lonzo made it work. We had a real ceiling without a 1A guy, and that's random. I'm not privy to what goes on in GM/owner meetings, nor to Lonzo's medical reports. Everybody says what they would have done differently without that information, which is important when factoring what new moves to make. Given Lonzo's cap hold, I'd say they were far more limited in trades without moving core pieces, and for what? They made a LOT of small moves that helped this team and gave the young guys time to grow. The team is playing at a winning pace currently while missing two starters. Yet AKME is being called the worst GM in the league and in Bulls history, literally.

[DuckIII]

Bro, believe me, i wish the Bulls had more success over the last couple of years too. Way I look at is this: coming in as a new GM with a directive to win and a 25 pt scorer already on the team, you can do two things, either throw the farm and TRY to get an A+, 1A type player, or get two A-B+ players and build around that.

I will part ways with you immediately. There is no evidence that when interviewing GM candidates the FO gave them a directive to start winning immediately. What we do know as reported is that getting better immediately was the plan AK presented when interviewing.

Since that appears to be the foundation for your opinion, there’s not a lot to discuss.

They made a LOT of small moves that helped this team and gave the young guys time to grow. The team is playing at a winning pace currently while missing two starters. Yet AKME is being called the worst GM in the league and in Bulls history, literally.

Including specifically by me.

[Miltpalaciofanclub]

Interesting that the headwinds of this year’s trade deadline are catching the sails just now. The failure for the Bulls’ front office’s constipation is due to last year’s lack of movement.

Instead of relieving itself of bloated assets portended to inflame the inner walls of the organization in 2022-2023, it held onto this junk. And look, mistakes are made; failure from humans making decisions in the real world is inevitable. But when a community fails slowly, it’s because it ignored signals alerting it to change direction.

AK purportedly made the reasonable demand to the Warriors that any trade involving Caruso needed to include Kuminga. But when GS countered that they are only willing to offer the unproven Moses Moody, you can’t help but agree with AK that the offers in return just weren’t there this year.

Karnisovas is incompetent because of his inaction in the 2022-2023 season. If he would have assessed that Demar, Vuc, and Zach were at their peak in February, 2022, the Bulls wouldn’t be a national embarrassment. The offers would have been there if he then took a leap of faith. But here we are.

Instead of rooting for a team to win, we clinically asses this cadaver as an online community. We poke a prod its remaining nerve centers instead of expecting it to function fully as designed. Why can’t we just move on?

How could Zach be at his peak in February 2022 when he played significantly better after that point? Players don't reach some well defined peak gradually and the decline gradually. If they did it would make team management a lot easier. Zach literally peaked less than one year ago, and considering his injury problems this year, its entirely plausible that he'll reach last spring's level of play again starting next year, possibly for years to come.


Vuc probably wasn't worth much as an expiring. The mistake was extending him, at least at the dollars they did.

To clarify, peak value, not peak performance. A year ago, the jury was still out whether Zach’s contributions were empty calories or not. Now it’s been confirmed.

[WestsideResider]

I don’t understand how they have two guys running the show and still are super inactive. Like why is Marc Eversley even here? Does he want to make moves but they get vetoed?

[MrSparkle]

GarPax made mostly terrible coaching hires, regrettable FA choices (Boozer, Wallace), and drafted a lot of long-term busts in the grand scheme of things. And then the successful guys were pretty much toast before their prime: Kirk had to be bundled with a FRP to get his salary dumped, Gordon walked.

I’m unimpressed with both parties at this point. GP had 16 years at the helm and made 1 ECF appearance. Paxson also inherited a full house of prospects and future picks, and Gar inherited Rose - an actual rookie wonder kid, which made his job a hell of a lot easier until the ACL.

Ultimately that is horrible performance. AK’s tenure is dipping into horrible. Though I’ll grant him another 6 months, to see through the latest migraine-inducing events.

Does he overpay Demar? How about Pat and Drummond? Does he actually hope to see Zach and Lonzo contribute next season? Who is the next Terry they draft? Are they just switching focus to the G-League team?

This said, the team is actually better without Zach. The performance since he’s been out, has basically been that of a 1st rd team, with some worse nights… but not all that reliant on luck or crazy Demar buzzer beaters like the 21/22 season. Not counting on it, but if this team can get a little hotter in April, a 2nd round appearance doesn’t seem impossible to me. Problem is the odds favor play-in.

My biggest bone to pick is that we are currently assisted by an expiring Drummond. Last night’s game against the G-League Grizzlies would’ve been a loss, for example. Conversely, I strongly believe Billy lost himselr atleast 5 (if not 10-15) games last year by routinely icing Drummond in the 4th. So what now- pay Drummond $15m? Or lose the better C to open FA?

[step]

We obviously don't have their championship record, but seeing where the Warriors are this year with so many of their players slumping/declining, it's funny listening to other execs talk about making the play-in as a goal.

And given that teams history of proven success at the highest level... they can be forgiven for thinking that they can flip the switch and make something of it. What does our team have to bank on?

[step]

To the people that want to "rebuild" (which means tank if anyone is remotely honest with themselves), we've already achieved the outcome of that.

Quite the opposite, they stopped said rebuild and went for win now and literally we are in a worse position had they done nothing.
And it's amusing now that because they're doing nothing we're in a bigger mess.