Who isn't mad at Arturas?

[PJSteven22]

It should have gotten to him. Young Tyson Chandler for old PJ Brown was a cheapskate move. Tyrus for Aldridge was total nonsense. Aldridge clearly established himself as the better prospect in college. As much as I like Pax, I've never gotten over those 2 moves either.

Say what you want but those two moves aren’t worse than the Vuc and Lauri trade. Tyson Chandler and Scott Skiles didn’t really get along so one of them had to go. Plus that was the off-season they signed Ben Wallace. It didn’t really make sense to keep both. Plus he wasn’t the player that he became. Add in the fact that they drafted a better version of Chandler in Joakim Noah. It’s seems kind of obtuse to get stuck on a move like that especially since we ended up with a better version not too long after that. As for the Tyrus Thomas/Lamarcus Aldridge swap. They are not in that position without Pax making a terrific move to send Eddy Curry to the Knicks which landed them the second pick in 2006 and a pick swap in 2007. If they get Aldridge they probably aren’t bad enough to get D. Rose in 2008. Plus when it was time to move Tyrus Thomas, Pax did it and got a first back from the Charlotte. These two moves didn’t really hurt the Bulls in the long run because he was able to quickly pivot off of those “mistakes”. It would be like a Knicks fan being upset at the Knicks for not drafting Haliburton. Yeah they didn’t get the BPA but they still turned around and got a stud PG shortly after that.

Why point at AK's mistakes to validate Pax's? They both screwed some things up. But let's go there.

Lauri wasn't very good and wasn't going to sign an extension, because he wanted more money than he had earned at the time. AK was between a rock and a hard place. He chose to rid himself of a petulant attitude, and I don't blame him. Even Greg Popovich didn't want to deal with Lauri's temperament. I guess he sucks at evaluating players too.

Vuc and Aminu for 2 picks was a terrible idea. They should have given us a pick for taking Aminu. I disliked that trade, but hoped I was underestimating Vuc considering I had no idea who he was at the time. I did know that Aminu didn't belong in the NBA. Just like Tyrus Thomas.

Pax and AK both screwed up, but at least Vuc belongs in the league. Trading away Aldridge because Pax didn't like his demeanor was a much greater mistake.

Also, giving Pax credit for getting D Rose as a result of screwing up the Aldridge trade is totally illogical. That was dumb luck. And this is coming from a Pax guy.

I was pointing out that his mistakes weren’t as franchise crippling as AKME. Lauri before he got benched his last year here averaged 18/6 on 60%TS. He was not bad, he was simply undervalued. The Vuc trade essentially knocked Lauri out of the starting lineup and facilitated the Lauri Markkanen trade. He was figuring it out. He just needed some time. To your point about Gregg Popovich, they’re human they all make mistakes. Difference is that AKME is still paying for their mistakes.

Another thing that separates AKME from Pax was results. Even with those “mistakes” they were still able to make it to the second round in Pax’s fourth year. AKME can’t even sniff the second round because of all of the mistakes they’ve made.

How is my point about not getting D. Rose if they drafted LMA illogical? Obviously that point went over your head. Tyrus Thomas in his second year had a Win Share of 2. LMA had a Win Shares of 6. 4 wins would have put them into the playoffs and they would have no chance at drafting Derrick Rose.

[nekorajo]

Say what you want but those two moves aren’t worse than the Vuc and Lauri trade. Tyson Chandler and Scott Skiles didn’t really get along so one of them had to go. Plus that was the off-season they signed Ben Wallace. It didn’t really make sense to keep both. Plus he wasn’t the player that he became. Add in the fact that they drafted a better version of Chandler in Joakim Noah. It’s seems kind of obtuse to get stuck on a move like that especially since we ended up with a better version not too long after that. As for the Tyrus Thomas/Lamarcus Aldridge swap. They are not in that position without Pax making a terrific move to send Eddy Curry to the Knicks which landed them the second pick in 2006 and a pick swap in 2007. If they get Aldridge they probably aren’t bad enough to get D. Rose in 2008. Plus when it was time to move Tyrus Thomas, Pax did it and got a first back from the Charlotte. These two moves didn’t really hurt the Bulls in the long run because he was able to quickly pivot off of those “mistakes”. It would be like a Knicks fan being upset at the Knicks for not drafting Haliburton. Yeah they didn’t get the BPA but they still turned around and got a stud PG shortly after that.

Why point at AK's mistakes to validate Pax's? They both screwed some things up. But let's go there.

Lauri wasn't very good and wasn't going to sign an extension, because he wanted more money than he had earned at the time. AK was between a rock and a hard place. He chose to rid himself of a petulant attitude, and I don't blame him. Even Greg Popovich didn't want to deal with Lauri's temperament. I guess he sucks at evaluating players too.

Vuc and Aminu for 2 picks was a terrible idea. They should have given us a pick for taking Aminu. I disliked that trade, but hoped I was underestimating Vuc considering I had no idea who he was at the time. I did know that Aminu didn't belong in the NBA. Just like Tyrus Thomas.

Pax and AK both screwed up, but at least Vuc belongs in the league. Trading away Aldridge because Pax didn't like his demeanor was a much greater mistake.

Also, giving Pax credit for getting D Rose as a result of screwing up the Aldridge trade is totally illogical. That was dumb luck. And this is coming from a Pax guy.

I was pointing out that his mistakes weren’t as franchise crippling as AKME. Lauri before he got benched his last year here averaged 18/6 on 60%TS. He was not bad, he was simply undervalued. The Vuc trade essentially knocked Lauri out of the starting lineup and facilitated the Lauri Markkanen trade. He was figuring it out. He just needed some time. To your point about Gregg Popovich, they’re human they all make mistakes. Difference is that AKME is still paying for their mistakes.

Another thing that separates AKME from Pax was results. Even with those “mistakes” they were still able to make it to the second round in Pax’s fourth year. AKME can’t even sniff the second round because of all of the mistakes they’ve made.

How is my point about not getting D. Rose if they drafted LMA illogical? Obviously that point went over your head. Tyrus Thomas in his second year had a Win Share of 2. LMA had a Win Shares of 6. 4 wins would have put them into the playoffs and they would have no chance at drafting Derrick Rose.

Landing D Rose as a result of trading Lamarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas is the definition of dumb luck. The trade was dumb. Getting the 1st pick as a result of that error was lucky.

Dumb luck is not a logical argument for Pax being better than AK.

[Stratmaster]

I'm not, at least not because of the trade deadline.

It seems like group think has taken over Bulls fans. I thought the initial hiring of Arturas was over-celebrated when he had proven nothing here yet. Now it seems like most fans are overreacting in the opposite direction.

I remember people complaining about GarPax having a plan, stating that plan but not following that plan. Enter Arturas who's been consistent with his ideology. He's not willing to step backwards in order to potentially move forward. He doesn't want to rely on building with high draft picks based on the team sucking. This was clear from the beginning when the majority liked AKME.

This team, even with significant injuries to its best players, has outperformed the team they inherited. So why are his ex supporters so mad all of the sudden? Last year's trade deadline was more significant, and there was barely a peep when Arturas made no moves. He's sticking to his guns. Isn't that what people wanted? It seems like all Bulls GMs/Presidents are doomed to being despised.

I've never been an Arturas guy. I still trust Pax's eye for roster balance more. But it quickly became clear that AK hit it out of the park when they added Zo, Demar and Caruso.

Unfortunately, Zo's injury tied his hands. Then Zach's surgery tied them again.

In my opinion, this summer is a more appropriate time to judge Arturas, because his hands will be untied for the 1st time in 3 years. Demar comes off the books. Healthy Zach should be tradable, and Zo will either be healthy or a great contract to leverage. Until then, I'll be enjoying watching this team play with heart.

I'm not mad about the trade deadline. I'm mad that Demar wasn't packaged by last trade deadline for a quality PF.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

[Stratmaster]

Ask yourself, from when they were hired, are we any closer to a consistent, 50 win team that can compete for if not a title, at least make a conference finals?

The answer is clearly no. Well what about assets? If the team isn't very good, maybe they've done a good job positioning us for the future?

Another clear no. We'd be better off with Lauri, WCJR and Franz Wagner than Vuc, DDR and Zach if we're talking next few years and further.

I give them credit for the initial push to reconfigure the team after taking over, but everything since then has been a disaster.

We're obviously closer. When they took over we were hot garbage. Demar, Caruso and Coby are all better than anyone on that team was. Ball was too when healthy, and of course Zach has improved.

If you want to play the franz wagner game we can do that all day with every team. Might as well do it with guys like Jokic, SGA etc than Franz **** Wagner.

There is absolutely zero value in going from 25 wins to 35-38. Not for the fans, and not for the team short or long term. They don't get any credit for taking a horrible team and making them borderline mediocre while hemorrhaging long term assets like WCJR, the 7th pick (since you're so hung up on it being Franz, we'll just say it's an asset) and so on and on to get to 38 wins and a play in loss yearly.

We have one path to being a good team: White or Pat turning into a superstar. The odds of that are about .5%, at best. We have no draft assets, no foundation of young players that we expect to grow together, we just have a couple young guys that were inherited from the Gar Pax era that we are praying turn into stars.

We have a below average starting center locked up on a massive overpay, our two best players, one is a malcontent that is chronically injured, the other is an aging player that will need an overpay to stay, who is suited to a style of basketball that we can't win with long term.

There's no there there! WTF. Who the hell would give AKME anything other than a D or F?

The Bulls won 41 games last season and 46 the season before. Where are you getting 38 from?

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

[Stratmaster]

Say what you want but those two moves aren’t worse than the Vuc and Lauri trade. Tyson Chandler and Scott Skiles didn’t really get along so one of them had to go. Plus that was the off-season they signed Ben Wallace. It didn’t really make sense to keep both. Plus he wasn’t the player that he became. Add in the fact that they drafted a better version of Chandler in Joakim Noah. It’s seems kind of obtuse to get stuck on a move like that especially since we ended up with a better version not too long after that. As for the Tyrus Thomas/Lamarcus Aldridge swap. They are not in that position without Pax making a terrific move to send Eddy Curry to the Knicks which landed them the second pick in 2006 and a pick swap in 2007. If they get Aldridge they probably aren’t bad enough to get D. Rose in 2008. Plus when it was time to move Tyrus Thomas, Pax did it and got a first back from the Charlotte. These two moves didn’t really hurt the Bulls in the long run because he was able to quickly pivot off of those “mistakes”. It would be like a Knicks fan being upset at the Knicks for not drafting Haliburton. Yeah they didn’t get the BPA but they still turned around and got a stud PG shortly after that.

Why point at AK's mistakes to validate Pax's? They both screwed some things up. But let's go there.

Lauri wasn't very good and wasn't going to sign an extension, because he wanted more money than he had earned at the time. AK was between a rock and a hard place. He chose to rid himself of a petulant attitude, and I don't blame him. Even Greg Popovich didn't want to deal with Lauri's temperament. I guess he sucks at evaluating players too.

Vuc and Aminu for 2 picks was a terrible idea. They should have given us a pick for taking Aminu. I disliked that trade, but hoped I was underestimating Vuc considering I had no idea who he was at the time. I did know that Aminu didn't belong in the NBA. Just like Tyrus Thomas.

Pax and AK both screwed up, but at least Vuc belongs in the league. Trading away Aldridge because Pax didn't like his demeanor was a much greater mistake.

Also, giving Pax credit for getting D Rose as a result of screwing up the Aldridge trade is totally illogical. That was dumb luck. And this is coming from a Pax guy.

I was pointing out that his mistakes weren’t as franchise crippling as AKME. Lauri before he got benched his last year here averaged 18/6 on 60%TS. He was not bad, he was simply undervalued. The Vuc trade essentially knocked Lauri out of the starting lineup and facilitated the Lauri Markkanen trade. He was figuring it out. He just needed some time. To your point about Gregg Popovich, they’re human they all make mistakes. Difference is that AKME is still paying for their mistakes.

Another thing that separates AKME from Pax was results. Even with those “mistakes” they were still able to make it to the second round in Pax’s fourth year. AKME can’t even sniff the second round because of all of the mistakes they’ve made.

How is my point about not getting D. Rose if they drafted LMA illogical? Obviously that point went over your head. Tyrus Thomas in his second year had a Win Share of 2. LMA had a Win Shares of 6. 4 wins would have put them into the playoffs and they would have no chance at drafting Derrick Rose.

Patrick Williams is why Lauri isn't here. Lauri want going to play Center. He was a PF publicly saying he wanted to play the 3
Just like Williams.

The Bulls chose the wrong guy. But it wasn't (or at least shouldn't have been) because of Vuc.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

[prolific passer]

Why point at AK's mistakes to validate Pax's? They both screwed some things up. But let's go there.

Lauri wasn't very good and wasn't going to sign an extension, because he wanted more money than he had earned at the time. AK was between a rock and a hard place. He chose to rid himself of a petulant attitude, and I don't blame him. Even Greg Popovich didn't want to deal with Lauri's temperament. I guess he sucks at evaluating players too.

Vuc and Aminu for 2 picks was a terrible idea. They should have given us a pick for taking Aminu. I disliked that trade, but hoped I was underestimating Vuc considering I had no idea who he was at the time. I did know that Aminu didn't belong in the NBA. Just like Tyrus Thomas.

Pax and AK both screwed up, but at least Vuc belongs in the league. Trading away Aldridge because Pax didn't like his demeanor was a much greater mistake.

Also, giving Pax credit for getting D Rose as a result of screwing up the Aldridge trade is totally illogical. That was dumb luck. And this is coming from a Pax guy.

I was pointing out that his mistakes weren’t as franchise crippling as AKME. Lauri before he got benched his last year here averaged 18/6 on 60%TS. He was not bad, he was simply undervalued. The Vuc trade essentially knocked Lauri out of the starting lineup and facilitated the Lauri Markkanen trade. He was figuring it out. He just needed some time. To your point about Gregg Popovich, they’re human they all make mistakes. Difference is that AKME is still paying for their mistakes.

Another thing that separates AKME from Pax was results. Even with those “mistakes” they were still able to make it to the second round in Pax’s fourth year. AKME can’t even sniff the second round because of all of the mistakes they’ve made.

How is my point about not getting D. Rose if they drafted LMA illogical? Obviously that point went over your head. Tyrus Thomas in his second year had a Win Share of 2. LMA had a Win Shares of 6. 4 wins would have put them into the playoffs and they would have no chance at drafting Derrick Rose.

Landing D Rose as a result of trading Lamarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas is the definition of dumb luck. The trade was dumb. Getting the 1st pick as a result of that error was lucky.

Dumb luck is not a logical argument for Pax being better than AK.

So is Pax and AK on the same par with each other?

[prolific passer]

I'm not, at least not because of the trade deadline.

It seems like group think has taken over Bulls fans. I thought the initial hiring of Arturas was over-celebrated when he had proven nothing here yet. Now it seems like most fans are overreacting in the opposite direction.

I remember people complaining about GarPax having a plan, stating that plan but not following that plan. Enter Arturas who's been consistent with his ideology. He's not willing to step backwards in order to potentially move forward. He doesn't want to rely on building with high draft picks based on the team sucking. This was clear from the beginning when the majority liked AKME.

This team, even with significant injuries to its best players, has outperformed the team they inherited. So why are his ex supporters so mad all of the sudden? Last year's trade deadline was more significant, and there was barely a peep when Arturas made no moves. He's sticking to his guns. Isn't that what people wanted? It seems like all Bulls GMs/Presidents are doomed to being despised.

I've never been an Arturas guy. I still trust Pax's eye for roster balance more. But it quickly became clear that AK hit it out of the park when they added Zo, Demar and Caruso.

Unfortunately, Zo's injury tied his hands. Then Zach's surgery tied them again.

In my opinion, this summer is a more appropriate time to judge Arturas, because his hands will be untied for the 1st time in 3 years. Demar comes off the books. Healthy Zach should be tradable, and Zo will either be healthy or a great contract to leverage. Until then, I'll be enjoying watching this team play with heart.

I'm not mad about the trade deadline. I'm mad that Demar wasn't packaged by last trade deadline for a quality PF.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Like the Wizards who had Kuzma? People said on here that would have been disrespectful to DeMar to trade him to a worse team than the bulls.

[prolific passer]

We're obviously closer. When they took over we were hot garbage. Demar, Caruso and Coby are all better than anyone on that team was. Ball was too when healthy, and of course Zach has improved.

If you want to play the franz wagner game we can do that all day with every team. Might as well do it with guys like Jokic, SGA etc than Franz **** Wagner.

There is absolutely zero value in going from 25 wins to 35-38. Not for the fans, and not for the team short or long term. They don't get any credit for taking a horrible team and making them borderline mediocre while hemorrhaging long term assets like WCJR, the 7th pick (since you're so hung up on it being Franz, we'll just say it's an asset) and so on and on to get to 38 wins and a play in loss yearly.

We have one path to being a good team: White or Pat turning into a superstar. The odds of that are about .5%, at best. We have no draft assets, no foundation of young players that we expect to grow together, we just have a couple young guys that were inherited from the Gar Pax era that we are praying turn into stars.

We have a below average starting center locked up on a massive overpay, our two best players, one is a malcontent that is chronically injured, the other is an aging player that will need an overpay to stay, who is suited to a style of basketball that we can't win with long term.

There's no there there! WTF. Who the hell would give AKME anything other than a D or F?

The Bulls won 41 games last season and 46 the season before. Where are you getting 38 from?

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Bulls are on pace for 38-40 wins this season. Downward spiral.

[nekorajo]

I was pointing out that his mistakes weren’t as franchise crippling as AKME. Lauri before he got benched his last year here averaged 18/6 on 60%TS. He was not bad, he was simply undervalued. The Vuc trade essentially knocked Lauri out of the starting lineup and facilitated the Lauri Markkanen trade. He was figuring it out. He just needed some time. To your point about Gregg Popovich, they’re human they all make mistakes. Difference is that AKME is still paying for their mistakes.

Another thing that separates AKME from Pax was results. Even with those “mistakes” they were still able to make it to the second round in Pax’s fourth year. AKME can’t even sniff the second round because of all of the mistakes they’ve made.

How is my point about not getting D. Rose if they drafted LMA illogical? Obviously that point went over your head. Tyrus Thomas in his second year had a Win Share of 2. LMA had a Win Shares of 6. 4 wins would have put them into the playoffs and they would have no chance at drafting Derrick Rose.

Landing D Rose as a result of trading Lamarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas is the definition of dumb luck. The trade was dumb. Getting the 1st pick as a result of that error was lucky.

Dumb luck is not a logical argument for Pax being better than AK.

So is Pax and AK on the same par with each other?

There's an argument for that. Pax got lucky with D Rose. Arturas got lucky with Jokic. Pax was unlucky with Derrick's injury. Arturas was unlucky with Lonzo's injury. Both built very good teams. Both have made decisions I've loved and hated.

[kodo]

Karnisovas was neither President or GM for the Joker pick, or even Murray. MPJ was his big draft pick.

AK's draft history as GM/Pres:
2017: 13th pick (traded for Trey Lyles); player picked was Donovan Mitchell
2018: 14th Michael Porter Jr
2019: -
2020: 4th Patrick Williams
2021: -
2022: Dalen Terry

[prolific passer]

Landing D Rose as a result of trading Lamarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas is the definition of dumb luck. The trade was dumb. Getting the 1st pick as a result of that error was lucky.

Dumb luck is not a logical argument for Pax being better than AK.

So is Pax and AK on the same par with each other?

There's an argument for that. Pax got lucky with D Rose. Arturas got lucky with Jokic. Pax was unlucky with Derrick's injury. Arturas was unlucky with Lonzo's injury. Both built very good teams. Both have made decisions I've loved and hated.

Yeah. Pax got lucky getting the first pick but more talk about his 04 draft than drafting Rose. Jokic was a 2nd round pick who panned out better than they thought.

[GoBlue72391]

Karnisovas was neither President or GM for the Joker pick, or even Murray. MPJ was his big draft pick.

AK's draft history as GM/Pres:
2017: 13th pick (traded for Trey Lyles); player picked was Donovan Mitchell
2018: 14th Michael Porter Jr
2019: -
2020: 4th Patrick Williams
2021: -
2022: Dalen Terry

[Stratmaster]

There is absolutely zero value in going from 25 wins to 35-38. Not for the fans, and not for the team short or long term. They don't get any credit for taking a horrible team and making them borderline mediocre while hemorrhaging long term assets like WCJR, the 7th pick (since you're so hung up on it being Franz, we'll just say it's an asset) and so on and on to get to 38 wins and a play in loss yearly.

We have one path to being a good team: White or Pat turning into a superstar. The odds of that are about .5%, at best. We have no draft assets, no foundation of young players that we expect to grow together, we just have a couple young guys that were inherited from the Gar Pax era that we are praying turn into stars.

We have a below average starting center locked up on a massive overpay, our two best players, one is a malcontent that is chronically injured, the other is an aging player that will need an overpay to stay, who is suited to a style of basketball that we can't win with long term.

There's no there there! WTF. Who the hell would give AKME anything other than a D or F?

The Bulls won 41 games last season and 46 the season before. Where are you getting 38 from?

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Bulls are on pace for 38-40 wins this season. Downward spiral.

Still 30 games left. We shall see. I don't necessarily disagree, but we are assessing the front office performance and the claim that they took the Bulls from 25 wins to 38. That isn't true. They took the Bulls from a 22 win team to a 46 win team.

[Stratmaster]

I'm not, at least not because of the trade deadline.

It seems like group think has taken over Bulls fans. I thought the initial hiring of Arturas was over-celebrated when he had proven nothing here yet. Now it seems like most fans are overreacting in the opposite direction.

I remember people complaining about GarPax having a plan, stating that plan but not following that plan. Enter Arturas who's been consistent with his ideology. He's not willing to step backwards in order to potentially move forward. He doesn't want to rely on building with high draft picks based on the team sucking. This was clear from the beginning when the majority liked AKME.

This team, even with significant injuries to its best players, has outperformed the team they inherited. So why are his ex supporters so mad all of the sudden? Last year's trade deadline was more significant, and there was barely a peep when Arturas made no moves. He's sticking to his guns. Isn't that what people wanted? It seems like all Bulls GMs/Presidents are doomed to being despised.

I've never been an Arturas guy. I still trust Pax's eye for roster balance more. But it quickly became clear that AK hit it out of the park when they added Zo, Demar and Caruso.

Unfortunately, Zo's injury tied his hands. Then Zach's surgery tied them again.

In my opinion, this summer is a more appropriate time to judge Arturas, because his hands will be untied for the 1st time in 3 years. Demar comes off the books. Healthy Zach should be tradable, and Zo will either be healthy or a great contract to leverage. Until then, I'll be enjoying watching this team play with heart.

I'm not mad about the trade deadline. I'm mad that Demar wasn't packaged by last trade deadline for a quality PF.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

Like the Wizards who had Kuzma? People said on here that would have been disrespectful to DeMar to trade him to a worse team than the bulls.

I'm not "people"

[HomoSapien]

I randomly came across this clip. Didn't feel like starting a new thread for it, so I'll stick it in here:

Read on Twitter

Edit, this isn't me endorsing anything Ricky is saying. Just thought it was cool to see the behind the scenes stuff even if I strongly disagreed with both moves.

[PJSteven22]

Why point at AK's mistakes to validate Pax's? They both screwed some things up. But let's go there.

Lauri wasn't very good and wasn't going to sign an extension, because he wanted more money than he had earned at the time. AK was between a rock and a hard place. He chose to rid himself of a petulant attitude, and I don't blame him. Even Greg Popovich didn't want to deal with Lauri's temperament. I guess he sucks at evaluating players too.

Vuc and Aminu for 2 picks was a terrible idea. They should have given us a pick for taking Aminu. I disliked that trade, but hoped I was underestimating Vuc considering I had no idea who he was at the time. I did know that Aminu didn't belong in the NBA. Just like Tyrus Thomas.

Pax and AK both screwed up, but at least Vuc belongs in the league. Trading away Aldridge because Pax didn't like his demeanor was a much greater mistake.

Also, giving Pax credit for getting D Rose as a result of screwing up the Aldridge trade is totally illogical. That was dumb luck. And this is coming from a Pax guy.

I was pointing out that his mistakes weren’t as franchise crippling as AKME. Lauri before he got benched his last year here averaged 18/6 on 60%TS. He was not bad, he was simply undervalued. The Vuc trade essentially knocked Lauri out of the starting lineup and facilitated the Lauri Markkanen trade. He was figuring it out. He just needed some time. To your point about Gregg Popovich, they’re human they all make mistakes. Difference is that AKME is still paying for their mistakes.

Another thing that separates AKME from Pax was results. Even with those “mistakes” they were still able to make it to the second round in Pax’s fourth year. AKME can’t even sniff the second round because of all of the mistakes they’ve made.

How is my point about not getting D. Rose if they drafted LMA illogical? Obviously that point went over your head. Tyrus Thomas in his second year had a Win Share of 2. LMA had a Win Shares of 6. 4 wins would have put them into the playoffs and they would have no chance at drafting Derrick Rose.

Patrick Williams is why Lauri isn't here. Lauri want going to play Center. He was a PF publicly saying he wanted to play the 3
Just like Williams.

The Bulls chose the wrong guy. But it wasn't (or at least shouldn't have been) because of Vuc.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

No not really. He was playing the 3 with Lauri before the Vuc trade. Pat still played the 3 after the Vuc with Theis playing the 4 because of his help defense. The reason why he got benched was because Vuc and Lauri didn’t fit well in the front court. This disproves your theory.

[PJSteven22]

Why point at AK's mistakes to validate Pax's? They both screwed some things up. But let's go there.

Lauri wasn't very good and wasn't going to sign an extension, because he wanted more money than he had earned at the time. AK was between a rock and a hard place. He chose to rid himself of a petulant attitude, and I don't blame him. Even Greg Popovich didn't want to deal with Lauri's temperament. I guess he sucks at evaluating players too.

Vuc and Aminu for 2 picks was a terrible idea. They should have given us a pick for taking Aminu. I disliked that trade, but hoped I was underestimating Vuc considering I had no idea who he was at the time. I did know that Aminu didn't belong in the NBA. Just like Tyrus Thomas.

Pax and AK both screwed up, but at least Vuc belongs in the league. Trading away Aldridge because Pax didn't like his demeanor was a much greater mistake.

Also, giving Pax credit for getting D Rose as a result of screwing up the Aldridge trade is totally illogical. That was dumb luck. And this is coming from a Pax guy.

I was pointing out that his mistakes weren’t as franchise crippling as AKME. Lauri before he got benched his last year here averaged 18/6 on 60%TS. He was not bad, he was simply undervalued. The Vuc trade essentially knocked Lauri out of the starting lineup and facilitated the Lauri Markkanen trade. He was figuring it out. He just needed some time. To your point about Gregg Popovich, they’re human they all make mistakes. Difference is that AKME is still paying for their mistakes.

Another thing that separates AKME from Pax was results. Even with those “mistakes” they were still able to make it to the second round in Pax’s fourth year. AKME can’t even sniff the second round because of all of the mistakes they’ve made.

How is my point about not getting D. Rose if they drafted LMA illogical? Obviously that point went over your head. Tyrus Thomas in his second year had a Win Share of 2. LMA had a Win Shares of 6. 4 wins would have put them into the playoffs and they would have no chance at drafting Derrick Rose.

Landing D Rose as a result of trading Lamarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas is the definition of dumb luck. The trade was dumb. Getting the 1st pick as a result of that error was lucky.

Dumb luck is not a logical argument for Pax being better than AK.

It’s not. If you can’t see ahead then that’s on you. Lamarcus Aldridge would have likely made the Bulls a playoff team that year because they struggled with low post scoring. This means that they would be out of the lottery. I literally explained it in my previous comment. If you refuse to see that then that’s on you and we should probably stop responding to each other.

[nekorajo]

I was pointing out that his mistakes weren’t as franchise crippling as AKME. Lauri before he got benched his last year here averaged 18/6 on 60%TS. He was not bad, he was simply undervalued. The Vuc trade essentially knocked Lauri out of the starting lineup and facilitated the Lauri Markkanen trade. He was figuring it out. He just needed some time. To your point about Gregg Popovich, they’re human they all make mistakes. Difference is that AKME is still paying for their mistakes.

Another thing that separates AKME from Pax was results. Even with those “mistakes” they were still able to make it to the second round in Pax’s fourth year. AKME can’t even sniff the second round because of all of the mistakes they’ve made.

How is my point about not getting D. Rose if they drafted LMA illogical? Obviously that point went over your head. Tyrus Thomas in his second year had a Win Share of 2. LMA had a Win Shares of 6. 4 wins would have put them into the playoffs and they would have no chance at drafting Derrick Rose.

Landing D Rose as a result of trading Lamarcus Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas is the definition of dumb luck. The trade was dumb. Getting the 1st pick as a result of that error was lucky.

Dumb luck is not a logical argument for Pax being better than AK.

It’s not. If you can’t see ahead then that’s on you. Lamarcus Aldridge would have likely made the Bulls a playoff team that year because they struggled with low post scoring. This means that they would be out of the lottery. I literally explained it in my previous comment. If you refuse to see that then that’s on you and we should probably stop responding to each other.

I understood. You said drafting LA would have made the team better. You said that a better record would have stopped the Bulls from drafting Rose.

That outcome doesn't validate Pax's mistake, because it was statistically highly improbable. Nor was it planned. Pax got lucky. I don't see why that's so hard to understand. But yeah let's stop debating this.

[Bondo]

Im not mad.
Went all in at the start- we all celebrated change.
Injuries happen that change the direction and tie your hands financially.

That being said- we have stood still far to long. I think this year and going into next major change is needed- we have exhausted what we have.

[Stratmaster]

I was pointing out that his mistakes weren’t as franchise crippling as AKME. Lauri before he got benched his last year here averaged 18/6 on 60%TS. He was not bad, he was simply undervalued. The Vuc trade essentially knocked Lauri out of the starting lineup and facilitated the Lauri Markkanen trade. He was figuring it out. He just needed some time. To your point about Gregg Popovich, they’re human they all make mistakes. Difference is that AKME is still paying for their mistakes.

Another thing that separates AKME from Pax was results. Even with those “mistakes” they were still able to make it to the second round in Pax’s fourth year. AKME can’t even sniff the second round because of all of the mistakes they’ve made.

How is my point about not getting D. Rose if they drafted LMA illogical? Obviously that point went over your head. Tyrus Thomas in his second year had a Win Share of 2. LMA had a Win Shares of 6. 4 wins would have put them into the playoffs and they would have no chance at drafting Derrick Rose.

Patrick Williams is why Lauri isn't here. Lauri want going to play Center. He was a PF publicly saying he wanted to play the 3
Just like Williams.

The Bulls chose the wrong guy. But it wasn't (or at least shouldn't have been) because of Vuc.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app

No not really. He was playing the 3 with Lauri before the Vuc trade. Pat still played the 3 after the Vuc with Theis playing the 4 because of his help defense. The reason why he got benched was because Vuc and Lauri didn’t fit well in the front court. This disproves your theory.

The fact that rookie Pat started and played the 3 while Lauri was asking to, and then Lauri was traded while Pat continued to be gifted the starting job, disproves my theory that the Bulls chose keeping Williams over keeping Lauri, and my opinion that it was the wrong choice? Sure.

Sent from my SM-S911U using RealGM mobile app