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Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip

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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#61 » by Mk0 » Tue Mar 5, 2024 7:08 am

Red8911 wrote:
umfan83 wrote:11 total bench points tonight from 3 players.

6 - Julian Phillips
4 - Drummond
1 - Bitim

Wild

Yeah this is a problem.These 3 weren’t bad, Bitim and Philips had a few big defensive plays that helped bring the game back but bench needs to provide more scoring.

Carter has been a huge disappointment,keeps pump faking instead of shooting. For a veteran he’s been playing like a low IQ player, should be a lot better than this.

Craig returning soon will help boost this team a bit. He’s a very important player especially since Patrick is done.

Carter needs to be out of the rotation. I wanted him gone at the deadline.
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#62 » by Repeat 3-peat » Tue Mar 5, 2024 7:22 am

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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#63 » by Mk0 » Tue Mar 5, 2024 7:43 am

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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#64 » by vxmike » Tue Mar 5, 2024 8:05 am

umfan83 wrote:11 total bench points tonight from 3 players.

6 - Julian Phillips
4 - Drummond
1 - Bitim

Wild


They’re playing with 6 NBA rotation quality players right now. It’s kinda impressive to be winning games with no all star talent and only 6 guys worthy of rotation minutes.
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#65 » by Repeat 3-peat » Tue Mar 5, 2024 8:08 am

Mk0 wrote:


Demar shot with 3:56 left

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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#66 » by nekorajo » Tue Mar 5, 2024 9:41 am

This team is hilarious. I've been complaining about Coby letting the game come to him in the 1st quarter of games. I want him to force the issue early sometimes. He went scoreless in the 1st again, then proceeded to score a career high. You just never know what to expect with this group.
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#67 » by nekorajo » Tue Mar 5, 2024 9:57 am

Demar, the stabilizer, was great in the 4th. Ayo looked unstoppable in the 1st. This team scores, defends and rebounds better with Drummond on the floor. King Julian is growing on me. Caruso couldn't buy a bucket but still impacted the game. Bitum looks like another Arturas success story in the making.

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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#68 » by kdapiton » Tue Mar 5, 2024 11:27 am

my favorire Bulls type of wins are the late start ones where we play teams that are clearly on paper better than us and then you wake up in the morning to check the score only to realize somehow we won
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#69 » by BeatDaCavs420 » Tue Mar 5, 2024 11:53 am

kdapiton wrote:my favorire Bulls type of wins are the late start ones where we play teams that are clearly on paper better than us and then you wake up in the morning to check the score only to realize somehow we won

Facts and then seeing Coby scored 37! Wooooo!
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#70 » by Ice Man » Tue Mar 5, 2024 12:28 pm

I missed the game, because West Coast matchups on a school night when I live in an Eastern time zone aren't feasible. But man, it seems that Coby did a lot more than level up. He All Starred.
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#71 » by DuckIII » Tue Mar 5, 2024 1:21 pm

So impressed with how this skeleton crew keeps pulling down quality wins. What a game.

Obviously Coby played like a superstar, but DDR’s 4th quarter was absolutely nuts. He looked like MJ out there.

And Ayo still defers too much in the second half of games, but when he’s looking for his you can see real improvement he’s making in his change of pace, change of direction drives. Quicker and tighter, a little more herky-jerky. A little more like Coby actually.
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#72 » by sco » Tue Mar 5, 2024 1:27 pm

I was proud to make it to halftime being on eastern time. I will say this, we play better against teams like this where the opponent has one primary scorer that Caruso can guard and no real shot blocking - that's when our guards can score inside and Vuc doesn't get the yips.

Kudos to Coby for overcoming a slow start, which seems to be a "PG problem" as he seems focused on setting up Vuc early in games.

Demar was clutch, again against teams that don't contest shots well, he thrives.

Ayo did what I asked him to, to start the game by attacking the basket early, but seemed to dissappear late.
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#73 » by Ice Man » Tue Mar 5, 2024 1:30 pm

DuckIII wrote:And Ayo still defers too much in the second half of games, but when he’s looking for his you can see real improvement he’s making in his change of pace, change of direction drives. Quicker and tighter, a little more herky-jerky. A little more like Coby actually.


On a side note, I spent the post-Jordan and pre-Thibs years watching more soccer than hoops. Very similar sports, in many ways. One of the things I learned when watching soccer was that fancy plays like stepovers and nutmegs captured the fans' attention, but what actually beat people in high-level games were hesitations and change of pace. Messi didn't need tricks. He combined extreme body and ball control with constant misdirection. Get the defender slightly off balance and then head the other way. That is how to beat people.

Which is what I noticed when returning to watching hoops. I mean, sure, crossovers are fun and they sometimes work. But Lance Stevenson is not the answer. Luka Doncic is.

Which is the long way of saying that yes, Coby gets it and Ayo is starting to get there, too. So, by the way, does Caitlin Clark. People talk first about her shooting and second about her passing, which are both great, but what they never seem to discuss is how she can beat her mark off the dribble, getting to the hole. It's all about the hesitation. She's constantly threatening the defender by slowing down, thereby suggesting that she will pull up for the midrange. Then the defender also slows and she blows by her mark.

SGA does that too. You need the mid-range threat to pull that off.
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#74 » by Andi Obst » Tue Mar 5, 2024 1:52 pm

Bulls offense per quarter:

Q1: 107.7 (rank 26)
Q2: 110.6 (24)
Q3: 114.4 (23)
Q4: 120.6 (2)

Bulls have played the most clutch minutes of all teams in the league. Their NetRTG in the clutch is +22.6. They have played 35 clutch games and are 20-15 in those games.

Kings of the fourth.
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#75 » by Ice Man » Tue Mar 5, 2024 2:23 pm

Andi Obst wrote:Bulls offense per quarter:

Q1: 107.7 (rank 26)
Q2: 110.6 (24)
Q3: 114.4 (23)
Q4: 120.6 (2)

Bulls have played the most clutch minutes of all teams in the league. Their NetRTG in the clutch is +22.6. They have played 35 clutch games and are 20-15 in those games.

Kings of the fourth.


Yet narrative all year on this board has been that Billy Donovan is a terrible 4th quarter tactician and DeMar is overly selfish down the stretch. Go figure.
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#76 » by drosestruts » Tue Mar 5, 2024 2:40 pm

Another fun win!

Ayo started off the game looking great. Also hit a big 3 in the fourth right after coming back into the game - I feared he was maybe out too long, so was glad to see him come in and immediatley knock down a big three.

I'd also like to point out that, much like our sadly injured Patrick Williams last year, Keegan Murray is currently rated as the top iso defender in the entire NBA. Or rather he was before that 4th quarter by DeMar and White. The comeback was impressive for many reasons - but this guy is the top iso defender in the league and both these guys scored on him multiple times in the clutch.

Re-watching the last 5 minutes. Right when we tied it at 109 Lyles on the following possesion had 2 wide open 3-pointers and just froze in the moment, didn't pull the trigger on either then tried to drive and turn in over. So happy Sabonis had fouled out.

scoring wasn't there from our bench but I thought Phillips, Bitim, and Drummond all gave good minutes.

Unclear what it is Vuc provides at this point

I love DeMar. I can see he's old, and I can see your charts that show players can experience quick drop offs at any point at his age and beyond, but I see what he does on the court, I see his leadership off the court, I see he's a hard worker, and I'm just left believing he's one of the anomalies , one of the players that will continue playing at a high-level at an older age. I would be ecstatic to see the Bulls extend him, similar to how Olynk just signed an extension with the Raptors yesterday.

And my last shout out - again DeMar. Hitting two free throws when we're up two with under 5 seconds to play is hard.

Nothing much notable from other scores around the league. Nets lost again putting us 5 games ahead of them.

Not that our schedule is easy but the Pacers next 5 is against Dallas, Minnesota, Orlando, OKC, and us and they're currenly 5ish games ahead of us for the 8th seed.

Miami plays Detroit and Washington 4 times in their next 7 so they're not gonna slip. Orlando has an easy next 5 too.

I keep waiting for Philly to freefall in the standings and it's just not happening.
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#77 » by MGB8 » Tue Mar 5, 2024 2:55 pm

Gutsy win. Bulls significantly out performing my expectations with these narrow wins against teams like Cleveland and Sactown.

Ayo’s improvement over the last month is great to see. He may have a Derrick White career path.

Notable from the box - the Bulls kept a normally 37% 3 point shooting team to under 30%, high was the biggest difference (and a couple fewer 3PA than usual, along with a few fewer FTA - but those within normal variance). Seriously, defending well on the perimeter is something the Bulls struggled with much of the season, but going small with Derozan at the “4” may address that (and cause its own problems, but you pick your poison).

And for all the criticism on Vuc, Sabonis shot 37% when his average this season is 61%, career average of 56% - so maybe Sabonis struggles a bit with bigger bodied defenders (didn’t watch so not sure how much Drummond matched up, but he’s even harder to move than Vuc)?
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#78 » by MGB8 » Tue Mar 5, 2024 3:07 pm

Ice Man wrote:
Andi Obst wrote:Bulls offense per quarter:

Q1: 107.7 (rank 26)
Q2: 110.6 (24)
Q3: 114.4 (23)
Q4: 120.6 (2)

Bulls have played the most clutch minutes of all teams in the league. Their NetRTG in the clutch is +22.6. They have played 35 clutch games and are 20-15 in those games.

Kings of the fourth.


Yet narrative all year on this board has been that Billy Donovan is a terrible 4th quarter tactician and DeMar is overly selfish down the stretch. Go figure.


Maybe because DeRozan has repeatedly gotten overly ISO-ish at the end of games, killing momentum, and Billy didn’t adjust to that - leading to a loss in those games? But that may have changed a bit since the AS game?

Anyway, I wouldn’t read too much into 4 Qtr scoring given that when the Bulls win, they tend to play really well in the 4th, and when they lose, they tend to play poorly, and they have more losses than wins. The average size of loss is also greater than the average size of win, though only by a few points.
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#79 » by Ice Man » Tue Mar 5, 2024 3:33 pm

MGB8 wrote:Maybe because DeRozan has repeatedly gotten overly ISO-ish at the end of games, killing momentum, and Billy didn’t adjust to that - leading to a loss in those games?


Whatever DeMar and Billy are doing late in games, it's working better than whatever the Bulls have done earlier in games. Thus, rather than criticize the one thing that the team is actually good at, I would suggest that we address the opposite issue: Why on earth do the Bulls start their games so poorly? THAT is the problem that needs solving.
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Re: Bulls @ Kings - 9pm. Bulls West Coast Roadtrip 

Post#80 » by ChettheJet » Tue Mar 5, 2024 3:40 pm

The not getting that sense of urgency until they get down 22 points is the problem this group either needs to address or the group needs to change. Not sustainable to make these huge comebacks consistently.

And you can't rule out changing the group when the same guys can put forth this kind of effort against CLE, SAC and ATL and they have 2 losses at the hands of DET. You look at who i out there and wonder would it be a to 3 team if Lavine, Lonzo and Patrick were part of the rotation or would the same lack of urgency be there with different players. Would those three now be considered possible solutions and not part of the problem?

I don't see Coby and Demar being able to log 42+ minutes as being continuity. There are two parts to them playing that much every night: Caruso needs to have his minutes monitored because he is constantly playing with some injury and the other part is Billy is reluctant to to pay Carter who is in turn reluctant to shoot, he doesn't trust Bitim and Phillips for very many minutes, Terry had fallen off the radar and Terry Taylor is desperation time. I don't even know if Craig coming back at full speed changes anything.

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