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The defense has fallen off a cliff recently.

Guru wrote:No to Lopez, Hartenstein and Horford. So if we add KAT then we are at 13. That sounds about right.

Those guys aren't special. But they make their flipping shots. If Vuc shot half as often and improved his efficiency, up to where those guys are, he would be a better player then them. But he shoots and shoots and shoots, and he's not good at doing that.

2weekswithpay wrote:

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The defense has fallen off a cliff recently.

The loss of Pat Will.

Repeat 3-peat wrote:

2weekswithpay wrote:

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The defense has fallen off a cliff recently.

The loss of Pat Will.

That's a factor for sure, but to put it all on losing him is inaccurate IMO. I think it's more the combination of losing PWill + Craig and leaving us with no PFs and forcing us to play smaller than we already do. Craig just recently returned.

DuckIII wrote:

drosestruts wrote:

Red8911 wrote:Sure but if Demar was playing he could have changed things in the 4th. He’s done it many times. Without him it just made it a lot more difficult.

seconded - we were down 9 points heading into the 4th. With DeMar you have a feeling of "here he goes again"

Without DeMar it all seemed a little hopeless

Yeah but he deserved to be ejected. I’m not even remotely buying the Amin/King blame game of saying the officials “allowed the game to get out of control.” Pure homer nonsense.

DDR acted like an idiot and paid the correct price. It happens. Nothing more to it than that.

Yeah for sure he did deserve it. First the hard foul and second the elbow. If it was one he would have gotten away with a technical, but with both there was no way he wasn’t getting ejected.

Was there something that happened on a prior play that caused DeRozan to foul Jalen like that? I'm wondering why he did it. He had an ugly play with the Wizards the other day too that ended a guys season.

DuckIII wrote:

drosestruts wrote:

Red8911 wrote:Sure but if Demar was playing he could have changed things in the 4th. He’s done it many times. Without him it just made it a lot more difficult.

seconded - we were down 9 points heading into the 4th. With DeMar you have a feeling of "here he goes again"

Without DeMar it all seemed a little hopeless

Yeah but he deserved to be ejected. I’m not even remotely buying the Amin/King blame game of saying the officials “allowed the game to get out of control.” Pure homer nonsense.

DDR acted like an idiot and paid the correct price. It happens. Nothing more to it than that.

100% deserved to be ejected.

I do think the officials lost control of the game - but the players losing control were DeMar yelling about a potential no call and Vuc throwing the ball into the tunnel.

Both of them could have easily been T'd up and told to settle down the play prior to DeMar leveling Green.

Axl Rose wrote:Was there something that happened on a prior play that caused DeRozan foul Jalen like that? I'm wondering why he did that. He had an ugly play with the Wizards the other day too that ended a guys season.

Green blocked DeRozan clean two possesions prior.

Next possession Brooks maybe pushed DeRozan as he was driving - hard to tell if Brooks pushed or just had ah and on DeRozan and DeRozan tried to sell the contact. Either way this is when DeRozan seemed to get upset.

After this miss by DeRozan he's on the ground yelling at the refs.

Vuc knocks the ball out of bounds fighting for the rebound off the DeRozan miss. Vuc then tosses the ball down the hallway to the locker room, which I've honestly never seen before.

Then we get DeRozan running into Green.

Was he mad about the block? Was he mad about the no-call on Brooks? Mad at the refs? I don't know - but these were the events immediately prior to the flagrant foul.

Unclear if it was specifically targeted at Green or if Green was just the guy with the ball at the time.

Guru wrote:

Ice Man wrote:

Guru wrote:Name 14 better

In order of 2024 VORP scores -

1. Jokic
2. Sabonis
3. AD
4. Embiid
5. Segnun
6. Holmgren
7. Wemby
8. Jarrett Allen
9. Porzingis
10. Horford
11. Bam
12. Gobert
13. Hartenstein
14. Lopez

Plus basketball-reference lists KAT as a PF, and he's better too. Plus, there are another 5 centers on the list before you get to Vuc. He's about #20, which sounds right.

No to Lopez, Hartenstein and Horford. So if we add KAT then we are at 13. That sounds about right.

You can say no to them all you want but they provide better impact on winning vs vuc. And that's not mentioning the average centers. I'd rather have gafford for example. Walker Kessler, turner, mobley, zubac, poetl, Wagner, lively, Michelle Robinson

Last I checked vuc was in the bottom 10 (maybe bottom 5) of all NBA players of offensive value added. Not just centers. ALL NBA PLAYERS. We all know how much of a detriment he is on defense

Combine that with the fact that Vuc has the highest fga rate on this team..... what a horrid combo.

PaKii94 wrote:Last I checked vuc was in the bottom 10 (maybe bottom 5) of all NBA players of offensive value added. Not just centers. ALL NBA PLAYERS. We all know how much of a detriment he is on defense

Combine that with the fact that Vuc has the highest fga rate on this team..... what a horrid combo.

True Shooting (min 50 games as a starter)
Jordan Poole 51.4%
Sochan 51.8% TS
Giddey 52.7% TS
Brandon Miller 53.1%
Nikola Vucevic 53.4%

kodo wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:Last I checked vuc was in the bottom 10 (maybe bottom 5) of all NBA players of offensive value added. Not just centers. ALL NBA PLAYERS. We all know how much of a detriment he is on defense

Combine that with the fact that Vuc has the highest fga rate on this team..... what a horrid combo.

True Shooting (min 50 games as a starter)
Jordan Poole 51.4%
Sochan 51.8% TS
Giddey 52.7% TS
Brandon Miller 53.1%
Nikola Vucevic 53.4%

I'm pretty sure he's like the only center in the bottom 30. It's pathetic

2weekswithpay wrote:

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The defense has fallen off a cliff recently.

Yep. They can't seem to stop anyone any more

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They're just younger, faster, and more athletic. I remember saying something about them killing us on the fast break, and the Rockets fan next to me saying something like "Well you're playing 2 centers". And the 2 centers we play are slow. Makes a lot of sense.

No one could handle Dre down low but we gave up a lot on the other end as well.

kodo wrote:The nature of our clutch wins is that we often let the other team catch up in the 4th and we pull out a W after letting them back in. We don't often go into the 4th from way behind and win.

Overall we're 1 point better than our opponent in the 4th, we're not an amazing 4Q team. And we were behind by 11 last night.

The fact that we're always in clutch situations is really not as much of a positive as it's being portrayed. We shouldn't need to be clutch against a Trailblazers team without Grant, Brogdon, Sharpe.

I think we all know we are not very good. We are also missing 3 key players and around $70 million in salary. We will if continuity finally pays off next season.

PaKii94 wrote:Last I checked vuc was in the bottom 10 (maybe bottom 5) of all NBA players of offensive value added. Not just centers. ALL NBA PLAYERS. We all know how much of a detriment he is on defense

Combine that with the fact that Vuc has the highest fga rate on this team..... what a horrid combo.

What triggers me when watching Vuc is his laziness on defense, he's rarely locked in on that end. Offensively he does hit timely important buckets sometime, but overall he's really meh on offense. We really need an upgrade at the C position. Vuc is a backup center playing a starting role.

RSP83 wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:Last I checked vuc was in the bottom 10 (maybe bottom 5) of all NBA players of offensive value added. Not just centers. ALL NBA PLAYERS. We all know how much of a detriment he is on defense

Combine that with the fact that Vuc has the highest fga rate on this team..... what a horrid combo.

What triggers me when watching Vuc is his laziness on defense, he's rarely locked in on that end. Offensively he does hit timely important buckets sometime, but overall he's really meh on offense. We really need an upgrade at the C position. Vuc is a backup center playing a starting role.

He's an okay player, but I think he's not good enough for the role he's in. My impression is that AK traded for him to be "Jokic lite" and while he gets okay assist numbers they're not very impressive. Plus he is shooting .286 from three.