Bulls vs Hawks 7pm CT

[vxmike]

The gap between Demar and the next guy on this team is too wide to maintain some type of stability.

Vuc is a shell of himself. Coby is still way too inconsistent and streaky to be relied upon as the second option. Ayo is not at that level yet.

As much as people here want Zach gone, he's the only guy who have shown to be capable of matching Demar's production.

So this team as it stands today is basically DeMar and the DeRozanaires. It's a sub-500 / 38 win team.

Pretty much. This simply isn’t a good team. Their offense is impotent. Zach isn’t a winning player and maybe adds 5 wins over 82 games? He’ll never play 82 so maybe he adds three wins?

They got owned at home to their play-in opponent without its best player. With this loss looks like Jerry might not even get a home play-in game

[Andi Obst]

I don't know if I can take 2 more years of Vuc starting for the Bulls, man.

He's not the reason this team isn't good, but he very clearly isn't a starter in this league anymore and AKME are never going to admit it. The Bulls defense requires every player to make quick reads and switch a lot just to allow Vuc to stay as close to the rim as possible...and he still can't protect the rim even a little bit. And the offense is somehow even worse now?! For the love of god, please dump this man in the offseason.

Giving him a 3-year-deal in the offseason was insane back then and it looks much worse now.

[Andi Obst]

Also, I love how Billy watched the Hawks make everything from deep for the first 3 quarters and decided that NOW is the time to bring out the double big lineup to begin the 4th.

I almost respect the audacity

[RSP83]

Also, I love how Billy watched the Hawks make everything from deep for the first 3 quarters and decided that NOW is the time to bring out the double big lineup to begin the 4th.

I almost respect the audacity

Billy has never been much of a tactical on-court coaching type. I also gain some insights from the Noah's interview with KG that Billy is better with coaching individuals off the court. He's a better coach with better talent. Bulls talent level right now is crap. I don't think Billy will extend beyond his current contract. I think he's maxed out his ability to get the most out of this team.

[Ice Man]

While I understand that at times the twin towers lineup has been effective, and that perhaps it should be used more, I am puzzled by the implication that the reason the twin towers is not used more is because Billy Donovan is the coach. Andre Drummond has been in the NBA forever and no coach has ever wanted to pair him with another center, unless you call Greg Monroe a center. (And if so, that experiment was a failure.)

If the Bulls changed coaches, I doubt that Drum's minutes would significantly change.

[umfan83]

Is anyone still watching this garbage? I just check the box score and highlights if it’s a win.

Same. I usually check the score later on in the game to see if it’s close later on and if so sometimes turn it on but there have been so many games this year where I completely forget to check back in until the game is over. It’s like the Bulls are not on my brain’s radar the way other sports teams I root for are.

Really goes to show how far this franchise has fallen imo. The most passionate fans who used to make this one of the most active forums on RealGM are largely tuning the team out. Game threads used to regularly pass 30-40 pages, are now 4 pages including postgame. It’s possible the user base has just dwindled here for a variety of reasons but still a decent chunk of the passionate fans have lost a lot of their passion and it sucks.

[Ice Man]

Really goes to show how far this franchise has fallen imo. The most passionate fans who used to make this one of the most active forums on RealGM are largely tuning the team out. Game threads used to regularly pass 30-40 pages, are now 4 pages including postgame. It’s possible the user base has just dwindled here for a variety of reasons but still a decent chunk of the passionate fans have lost a lot of their passion and it sucks.

There's almost as much action on the Bears OT thread, during football off-season, as on the game threads. In fairness to the Bulls, while a lot of that is due to their specific situation, it's also due to the fact that the NFL's popularity now dwarfs that of every other American sport. Thirty years ago football was still king, but the contest was closer. Now it's the NFL everybody else. Basketball and baseball are closer to soccer in popularity than they are to the NFL.

[drosestruts]

10-day contracts should be 10-game contracts. 10 days is wildly arbitrary and not reflective of how much a player might be needed or used.

Yes, this is what i'm choosing to talk about after this game.

[kodo]

He's not the reason this team isn't good, but he very clearly isn't a starter in this league anymore and AKME are never going to admit it. The Bulls defense requires every player to make quick reads and switch a lot just to allow Vuc to stay as close to the rim as possible...and he still can't protect the rim even a little bit. And the offense is somehow even worse now?! For the love of god, please dump this man in the offseason.

We're not going anywhere with him as our anchor in the P&R defense. Him + our scheme is why we're giving up the most 3Ps in the league for 2 seasons now.

This is such a standard Bulls defense of the P&R leading to a wide open corner 3:
https://thehighlow.io/video/ids?ids=24d5bP
- Our ball defender gets screened by Vuc's man
- Vuc can't defend the ball from going straight to the rim, even against a not very fast player (Bogey)
- Demar has to abandon his man completely to defend the rim
- Caruso has to defend 2 players, one is open for a corner 3...the best possible half-court jump shot the opponent can get

While it doesn't make obvious sense why a center affects 3P defense since he's not the one waving his hands at the 3P shooter, centers do stop the action that leads to open corner 3s. And why metrics show centers affect a team's defense more than any other position.

I question if Vuc can physically play in the league. Joakim was far more athletic than Vuc at any point their careers, played in a much slower paced less spread era, and Jo had to retire at this age. OR...do the Milwaukee thing and pair Vuc with a very long athletic PF. We're obviously not getting a Giannis, but Jonathan Isaac also played w/ Vuc in ORL as a 6' 10, 6' 11" PF. It's certainly a different look than Derozan being that weakside help.

This was from the DET game, apparently we're the worst P&R defense in the league along w/ DET.

The Pistons and Bulls came into the night the two worst teams in the league at defending pick-and-rolls. That’s why opposing teams have been giving the Bulls a steady diet of it the last few weeks, even more than usual.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bulls/2024/03/13/bulls-getting-picked-rolled-lately-isnt-about-to-slow-down

[ChettheJet]

The Bulls keep making my case for moving on from the oldest parts of this group. Where's the leadership from Demar, Nikola, Alex to know that here's a 2 game jump to be had over ATL, reducing the magic number to 4 and they plod through another loss that copied the Nets game?

I don't see Zach as a team leader, part of why I think several teams that people continually see as trade options for him just aren't going to be interested. But I'd rather have him back to get out and run, be a catch and shoot guy and score baskets than Vuc sleepwalking so much and Demar's iso machine. The three veterans last night seemed to dominate the turnover column just making lazy passes and fumbling the ball away.

Zach is looking better even while sitting out because he, and Patrick for that matter, can shoot the 3 ball. When the Bulls have Drummond, Terry, Carter, Craig and DeRozan on the floor they simply don't have anybody the defense is going to consider a genuine 3 point threat every time down the floor. The problem for the Bulls is they have a bench of two way guys who are 75-25 defensive guys who just can't flip on a given night to the offensive side. Look at every Bulls' opponent, they bring at least 2 guys off the bench who are capable of getting hot from behind the arc and if they're down by 10, turn a couple of Bulls misses into 6 points on the other end and they go on a run.

Why does any of that matter? It's a 3 point league and it looks like the Bulls built a roster that ignores that. I'm more than happy to start next year with Ayo, Zach and PWill starting, Coby playing 36 minutes off the bench and getting a new starting 4 and 5. Craig and Green join Coby off the bench, you tell Bitim to get the ball and shoot. But join the rest of the league in shooting the 3 ball and having shooters come off the bench.

[Stratmaster]

Is anyone still watching this garbage? I just check the box score and highlights if it’s a win.

Yes. Thanks for checking.

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[Mirotek]

Vuc gotta be one of the worst centers in the league. Mind boggling that there are some who thinks he's top 15 smh. Probablly one of my least favorite Bulls of all time.

[MrSparkle]

Yeah. My apathy (well, most of ours) probably comes from the fact that despite injuries, the team has poor 3P shooting, poor front court defense and poor size. It’s the most handicapped concept in the NBA, besides for the Raptors who tried their best to create a brickhouse. Which was fair the first year around. 2nd season I was ready to wait it out and wait for re-enforcements. They never came- this is the same roster essentially, for 3y in a row, with the same bull****. Even if you replaced Coby with Curry and Demar with Kawhi, we’d be losing a lot of games to bad teams, because you can’t overcome such glaring issues in a league that’s become both big and 3P heavy. Hell, the Warriors are a fringe play-in because they also lost all their shooting support, and as the undersized frontcourt lost its athleticism (namely Dray, Klay, Looney) and the rest of the league’s gotten much bigger again, you just can’t overcome size and shooting deficiencies.

So kudos to AK for making an exciting product for 20 games… shame on AK for not doing anything the next 3 years, and making a stale underdog.

And yeah- I’ll agree with Mirotek. Vuc is perhaps the least enjoyable Bull in my memory. I have no faith in him ever making the best play. He sometimes looks like a frustrated 20yo with no hops. The lack of composure, poor percentages, huge defensive liability… it’s just lame and insane that we’ll probably have spent half a decade starting one of the poorest centers in the league, on the tail end of his prime.

Just move on AK. It didn’t work out. He very well may find his stroke and confidence on a new team. That’s fine. His contributions here were/are/will-be nil. Anyway, this off season is shaping to be a disaster. I have no confidence in them making the right pick, even if they get #1.

Vuc will be back. Pat will probably be back. Demar might be back, making more money. Dunno what the hell they do with Zach. Need to watch the Lonzo comeback tour- he’ll maybe play 15 games. This team is sorry. All you can do is feel sorry for AK, feel sorry for the players and feel sorry for ourselves for following the new Knicks.

[HearshotKDS]

Really goes to show how far this franchise has fallen imo. The most passionate fans who used to make this one of the most active forums on RealGM are largely tuning the team out. Game threads used to regularly pass 30-40 pages, are now 4 pages including postgame. It’s possible the user base has just dwindled here for a variety of reasons but still a decent chunk of the passionate fans have lost a lot of their passion and it sucks.

It has been depressing to see the bulls board erode into the state it currently is in. It does really feel like the post Jimmy teams and post-Lonzo's knee imploding teams have basically wiped out 6-7 years of new fan influx. I have mentioned this in other threads but this board seems to have one of the oldest average age of accounts on RealGM. Nothing scientific but just my impressiong from Going to other teams boards and seeing a ton 2018, 2019, 2020+ created accounts - theres like 2-3 left on the board and at least one of them reads like the alt account of another long time user. Bulls must have lost that last recruiting class to what has felt like (outside of 35 games in '21) one of the longest periods of malaise since the immediate post Dynasty days. The Bulls board today feels like the crumbling ruins of a once mighty castle.

[madvillian]

This season is just a random outcome generator that is biased to always seek a 45% winning percentage in the long run.

[Narigo]

Nice tank loss. We might get a top 10 pick this year in draft if Atlanta passes us

[Red8911]

I don't know if I can take 2 more years of Vuc starting for the Bulls, man.

He's not the reason this team isn't good, but he very clearly isn't a starter in this league anymore and AKME are never going to admit it. The Bulls defense requires every player to make quick reads and switch a lot just to allow Vuc to stay as close to the rim as possible...and he still can't protect the rim even a little bit. And the offense is somehow even worse now?! For the love of god, please dump this man in the offseason.

Giving him a 3-year-deal in the offseason was insane back then and it looks much worse now.

Last night Vuc was in fact terrible. Maybe the back to back was a factor for him, he just didn’t look good.

Always liked Vuc and he’s not all that bad he’s had very good games this season as well but I agree it might be time to move on from him. Mostly because something needs to change with this team.

AK has to either trade him or get a big PF that will do the things Vuc can’t to compliment him.

Re signing him was not a mistake it was the right move, losing him for nothing would have been the mistake. Now they have the option to trade him if they wanted to.

[Red8911]

The Bulls keep making my case for moving on from the oldest parts of this group. Where's the leadership from Demar, Nikola, Alex to know that here's a 2 game jump to be had over ATL, reducing the magic number to 4 and they plod through another loss that copied the Nets game?

I don't see Zach as a team leader, part of why I think several teams that people continually see as trade options for him just aren't going to be interested. But I'd rather have him back to get out and run, be a catch and shoot guy and score baskets than Vuc sleepwalking so much and Demar's iso machine. The three veterans last night seemed to dominate the turnover column just making lazy passes and fumbling the ball away.

Zach is looking better even while sitting out because he, and Patrick for that matter, can shoot the 3 ball. When the Bulls have Drummond, Terry, Carter, Craig and DeRozan on the floor they simply don't have anybody the defense is going to consider a genuine 3 point threat every time down the floor. The problem for the Bulls is they have a bench of two way guys who are 75-25 defensive guys who just can't flip on a given night to the offensive side. Look at every Bulls' opponent, they bring at least 2 guys off the bench who are capable of getting hot from behind the arc and if they're down by 10, turn a couple of Bulls misses into 6 points on the other end and they go on a run.

Why does any of that matter? It's a 3 point league and it looks like the Bulls built a roster that ignores that. I'm more than happy to start next year with Ayo, Zach and PWill starting, Coby playing 36 minutes off the bench and getting a new starting 4 and 5. Craig and Green join Coby off the bench, you tell Bitim to get the ball and shoot. But join the rest of the league in shooting the 3 ball and having shooters come off the bench.

Every single Bulls player except for Drummond and maybe Demar (even though he’s been a lot better this year) are 3 point shooters. That’s not the problem. They are all capable of making shots.

[Stratmaster]

The Bulls keep making my case for moving on from the oldest parts of this group. Where's the leadership from Demar, Nikola, Alex to know that here's a 2 game jump to be had over ATL, reducing the magic number to 4 and they plod through another loss that copied the Nets game?

I don't see Zach as a team leader, part of why I think several teams that people continually see as trade options for him just aren't going to be interested. But I'd rather have him back to get out and run, be a catch and shoot guy and score baskets than Vuc sleepwalking so much and Demar's iso machine. The three veterans last night seemed to dominate the turnover column just making lazy passes and fumbling the ball away.

Zach is looking better even while sitting out because he, and Patrick for that matter, can shoot the 3 ball. When the Bulls have Drummond, Terry, Carter, Craig and DeRozan on the floor they simply don't have anybody the defense is going to consider a genuine 3 point threat every time down the floor. The problem for the Bulls is they have a bench of two way guys who are 75-25 defensive guys who just can't flip on a given night to the offensive side. Look at every Bulls' opponent, they bring at least 2 guys off the bench who are capable of getting hot from behind the arc and if they're down by 10, turn a couple of Bulls misses into 6 points on the other end and they go on a run.

Why does any of that matter? It's a 3 point league and it looks like the Bulls built a roster that ignores that. I'm more than happy to start next year with Ayo, Zach and PWill starting, Coby playing 36 minutes off the bench and getting a new starting 4 and 5. Craig and Green join Coby off the bench, you tell Bitim to get the ball and shoot. But join the rest of the league in shooting the 3 ball and having shooters come off the bench.

Every single Bulls player except for Drummond and maybe Demar (even though he’s been a lot better this year) are 3 point shooters. That’s not the problem. They are all capable of making shots.

There is a difference between volume 3 point scoring and hitting the occasional open 3 pointer.

The only 2 volume 3 point shooters on the roster, who also shoot for a decent percentage are Zach Lavine and a couple months of Coby White this season.

40٪ is great but not if you are only taking 3 a game.

EDIT: I forgot Craig

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[MrSparkle]

Construction is the main issue. Coby/Ayo/Demar made for a solid unit. Give them a quick C who defend, rebound, finish strong in the paint and make a half-decent outlet pass, and our pace would drastically improve.

If you want Vuc, then sign CP3’s corpse and atleast get a guy who can throw the ball into the post, and wants to play 2002 low post offense.