Bears 2024: 5.0 It's Caleb Williams time

[Michael Jackson]

For team scouts, it was said to be a relatively noticeable drop off on normal quality somewhere around the 4th/5th. The value/need for the Bears must have approached the prospect value of what was left on the board. If that was the case, it might be a special circumstance to draft the punter in that spot.

I guess but yet still traded for another pick later than that for a position of need. Pretty odd. Why not just take Booker there and keep the pick. If the talent was soooo bad why are you trading a higher pick to draft a guy that was there? Very strange.

I think Poles traded back into the 5th round because Flus was clearly not happy about drafting a Punter. I strongly believe Booker was Flus’ guy and he got his guy for him.

You can see the tense interaction with Flus and Poles in the war room when the Punter was selected.

Also the Punter was mocked to go in the 4th-5th round and poles wanted him more than he wanted Booker(Flus’ guy)

Possible. Technically I think that was after the OT pick... but likely only angered more by the punter pick. Still makes no sense.

[JockItch43]

gotta say with all due respect, making a bad trade of a valuable asset based on accepting a lot of risk just for the sake of evaluating the quarterback would be among the worst circumstances to make a trade that I can think of. That would be very questionable GM judgment. I think it was mostly just a miss by a GM that is (hopefully) still learning on the job.

Claypool was considered the best WR on the trade market at the time. Nobody thought it was a terrible trade at the time as they had multiple suitors offering 2nd rounders.

again, the bears were tanking. not all 2nd rounders are created equal. and tanking teams should not be adding talent mid-season

plenty of people questioned the trade at the time for the above obvious reasons. not to mention the high cost

Poles was clearly still tanking in the early stages of the rebuild, that roster was atrocious and adding Claypool wasn't going right that ship... give me a break. There was no Caleb Williams identified in that draft, that team was getting a top 3 pick with or without Claypool. The logic behind that trade was to potentially get a jump start with hopefully developing chemistry between a young receiver and his young QB he was still evaluating as part of the rebuild. Someone who could be a long term fit. The logic was solid even if the result was not, but I already know you'll refuse to acknowledge that.

[burlydee]

I don't know much about football as some of you, but the thing I like about Poles is his ability to acquire blue chip talent. This is by far the most promising and explosive offensive weapons the Bears have ever had. At most, the Bears would have 2 blue chippers on offense, usually just 1. Now the Bears have Moore, Odunze, Allen, and Caleb. I'm also high on Swift and we will see what Kmet does with competition and a throwing QB. On D we have Sweat, Edmunds, Johnson and Brisker. It's a talented team. The Claypool trade was terrible. The timing of the Roquan trade wasn't great. But this is most talent Bears have had since the Lovie days. Let's go!!!

[Chicago-Bull-E]

handful of guys i'd be happy about picking up as UDFAs:

DL Gabe Hall
S Beau Brade
EDGE Gabriel Murphy
WR Jalen Coker
C Kingsley Eguakun

Some good guys still out there, good list. I’d add Leonard Taylor III and Tahj Washington.

[fleet]

Claypool was considered the best WR on the trade market at the time. Nobody thought it was a terrible trade at the time as they had multiple suitors offering 2nd rounders.

again, the bears were tanking. not all 2nd rounders are created equal. and tanking teams should not be adding talent mid-season

plenty of people questioned the trade at the time for the above obvious reasons. not to mention the high cost

Poles was clearly still tanking in the early stages of the rebuild, that roster was atrocious and adding Claypool wasn't going right that ship... give me a break. There was no Caleb Williams in that draft, that team was getting a top 3 pick with or without Claypool. The logic behind that trade was to potentially get a jump start with hopefully developing chemistry between a young receiver and his young QB he was still evaluating as part of the rebuild. Someone who could be a long term fit. The logic was solid even if the result was not, but I already know you'll refuse to acknowledge that.

Honestly, and we’re never going to know until Poles retires at best, but I have a difficult time believing the cover story of the Bears still being unconvicted one way or another on Fields, needing more time. If Poles loved a quarterback from that ‘23 class, I bet you he would have drafted one. He wanted a ‘24 quarterback imo instead. So the Claypool deal was done for me because Poles was motivated to trade for Claypool independent of the Fields stuff. That Fields/Claypool development stuff is a specious narrative. A potential side benefit at best.

[Jimako10]

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Apparently trained with Caleb in the offseason. Bagent better be really good at making Caleb's coffee in the morning, he's got some competition now.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

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[fleet]

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Apparently trained with Caleb in the offseason. Bagent better be really good at making Caleb's coffee in the morning, he's got some competition now.

[NecessaryEvil]

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[TheJordanRule]

This draft comes across as so strong. Its likely that a ton of these guys are gonna be a huge part of the future. Austin Booker in the 5th round is a good value. Our new punter and OT are solid players at positions of need. And are top 2 studs in this draft are gonna define this franchise over the next 10 years. Very satisfying.

[NecessaryEvil]

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[NecessaryEvil]

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[dice]

Poles detractors will be talking about Chase claypool for a 2nd rounder for the next 4-5 seasons.


If that’s been his biggest mistake thus far we’re in very good shape in comparison to other regimes.


Despite us getting Stevenson the NEXT ROUND who cares about Porter Jr. when we got someone arguably better.

Look at the total return we got for Bryce Young, and then tell me Poles is a lousy GM:

Darnell Wright, Stevenson, DJ Moore, Caleb Williams, and 2025 2nd round pick.

That trade alone has vaulted us from just another team trying to rebuild, to one of the most promising young rosters in the league.

And then he just attributes it to luck lmao. There's no convincing this guy of anything... he has his mind made up.

again with the childish 'lmao' junk? how 'bout an adult conversation? i never said it was ALL luck, did i?

did you not see the end of the texans game that gave us the #1 pick? tell me that wasn't luck. poles didn't do that. or did he?

tell me it wasn't luck that carolina had the worst record last season. poles didn't do that. or did he?

tell me it wasn't luck that poles gets ANOTHER shot at a generational QB. poles didn't choose the year that a caleb williams level talent was available. or did he?

tell me it wasn't luck that odunze fell to the bears. poles didn't do that. or did he?

what else has he done? paid a price that no other team was willing to for sweat and allen? them being excellent players doesn't make acquiring them an achievement. winning an auction never is. re-sign jaylon johnson, a guy he didn't draft? is that an achievement? choose eberflus? absolutely none of this involves shrewd strategy or valuation

so...what has ryan poles done well? got a steal linebacker last year in edwards...sanborn...braxton...brisker's pretty good...stevenson looks like a good recovery after pissing away the opportunity to draft porter. that's about all that's notable to date that involved actual talent evaluation. nothing earth shattering. every GM makes some good moves

it was the initial decision to tank along with betting (incorrectly) on fields that has combined to bless poles beyond any reasonable expectation

back to all your fanboying and pretending that ryan poles had any inkling in advance that choosing fields would present him with the opportunity to draft caleb williams. and assuming that it was bryce young that he was trading rather than CJ stroud. total garbage argument in his favor. that was luck by any reasonable definition and you all know it

anybody who says that ryan poles traded bryce young for caleb williams is being extremely disingenuous. you know who you are

[ThisGuyFawkes]

Nothing is guaranteed so there's always some luck in the process. The main thing to consider is whether we'd even have a shot at this kind of "luck" without Poles making the decisions that he has.

[dice]

again, the bears were tanking. not all 2nd rounders are created equal. and tanking teams should not be adding talent mid-season

plenty of people questioned the trade at the time for the above obvious reasons. not to mention the high cost

Poles was clearly still tanking in the early stages of the rebuild, that roster was atrocious and adding Claypool wasn't going right that ship... give me a break. There was no Caleb Williams in that draft, that team was getting a top 3 pick with or without Claypool. The logic behind that trade was to potentially get a jump start with hopefully developing chemistry between a young receiver and his young QB he was still evaluating as part of the rebuild. Someone who could be a long term fit. The logic was solid even if the result was not, but I already know you'll refuse to acknowledge that.

Honestly, and we’re never going to know until Poles retires at best, but I have a difficult time believing the cover story of the Bears still being unconvicted one way or another on Fields, needing more time. If Poles loved a quarterback from that ‘23 class, I bet you he would have drafted one. He wanted a ‘24 quarterback imo instead. So the Claypool deal was done for me because Poles was motivated to trade for Claypool independent of the Fields stuff. That Fields/Claypool development stuff is a specious narrative. A potential side benefit at best.

he clearly didn't love young or stroud enough to kick ascending fan favorite justin fields to the curb 2 years into his career. i doubt he would have done it even if caleb was available. a disappointing year later it was a totally different calculus, the pressure was far reduced and the prospect was clearly better. that was luck. the pressure to keep fields would have been similar if carolina had been better as expected and the choice was between fields and mccarthy or penix. hell, if fields had beaten GB to close the season there would have been STRONG pressure to stick w/ him. it seems from the outside that only after doing his due diligence did poles become entirely comfortable with the prospect of trading fields and moving on. might have cost him a better trade return for fields, who knows

[dice]

Nothing is guaranteed so there's always some luck in the process. The main thing to consider is whether we'd even have a shot at this kind of "luck" without Poles making the decisions that he has.

he tanked good enough in year one to set the whole thing in motion. he deserves credit for what seemed like the obvious move to me: blow it up and try to rebuild around justin. that was it. 19/20 GMs would have kept fields after that successful tank season and re-gifted lovie's generosity. so what was the range of possibilities at that point?

extreme luck - caleb plus odunze/latu/turner/tradedown
strong luck - daniels/maye plus odunze/latu/turner/tradedown

reasonable expectation scenario 1 - justin plus 2 strong supporting pieces (latu or turner, top WR or trade down)
reasonable expectation scenario 2 - trade up w/ both picks into the top 5 or 6 for mccarthy or penix
reasonable expectation scenario 3 - top WR/latu/turner/tradedown, mccarthy/penix/nix

bad luck - bryce is good (or carolina takes stroud), carolina is decent, we have to trade up for the 5th or 6th available QB

poles got the extreme luck scenario. he is peter pan. lovie, bryce young and now harbaugh will likely prove to be our tinkerbells

[chitowndish]

I like the Taylor pick, I get positional value and all of that but our punter was basically the worst in the league and this guy is one of the best punters to come along in a long time and does seem pretty special. The thing I like about his punting highlights is that he pins people back at the 5 yard line at short range or long range he isn't just kicking the crap out of the ball he has a lot of skill with it and I do think that has a good impact on the game. Most punters are the same but an excellent punter has value I think. I also just loved Caleb's text to him that really cracked me up.

For the pick I think Poles figured some team was going to snipe the punter and he could get Booker later and I think he was right he got both of them. I don't mind because I think Taylor can have a positive impact for a long time and Booker gives us another potential line piece and depth.

[sco]

I feel that we reached for a punter, but late round picks are like 2nd round picks in the NBA. It's a crapshoot. Overall, I've like Poles' approach, but let's not forget his big miss with Carter last year. That was a HUGE miss. And I get there were extenuating circumstances, but that's the sort of stuff that Poles is supposed to be able to effectively assess.

[dice]

Claypool was considered the best WR on the trade market at the time. Nobody thought it was a terrible trade at the time as they had multiple suitors offering 2nd rounders.

again, the bears were tanking. not all 2nd rounders are created equal. and tanking teams should not be adding talent mid-season

plenty of people questioned the trade at the time for the above obvious reasons. not to mention the high cost

Poles was clearly still tanking in the early stages of the rebuild, that roster was atrocious and adding Claypool wasn't going right that ship... give me a break.

nobody said that claypool was going to "right the ship". the team would still have been awful. but if you don't think that claypool could have contributed to a SINGLE WIN, thus costing the bears the #1 pick and everything that came after it, you need to give yourself a break

There was no Caleb Williams identified in that draft, that team was getting a top 3 pick with or without Claypool.

they lose the #1 it's potentially disastrous and we're not having this conversation. and you know that. you simply don't monkey around w/ marginal improvements midway through a tank season where you've got a shot at the gold

The logic behind that trade was to potentially get a jump start with hopefully developing chemistry between a young receiver and his young QB he was still evaluating as part of the rebuild. Someone who could be a long term fit. The logic was solid even if the result was not, but I already know you'll refuse to acknowledge that.

i know what the logic was, thank you. but the upside was minimal. even if claypool worked out and contributed to a playoff appearance in 2023, guess what then happens? we have to pay up to re-sign him! which means we lose out on odunze too

many of us pointed out the limited upside vs. the potentially disastrous downside. despite the tendency of illogical fans to trust their GM and cross their fingers that it will work out. go back and check if you don't believe me

[Jeffster81]

I'm fine with the punter especially after the Bears traded back in for Booker. Bears needed an upgrade at punter and they got it.