Bears 2024: 5.0 It's Caleb Williams time

[NesimLE]

Brenden Rice falls all the way to the 7th round...

[fleet]

Javontae Jean-Baptiste (edge) appears like a pretty good pick in the 7th round. Bet Poles had him on speed dial for UDFA

[biggestbullsfan]

Read on Twitter

[dice]

Isn't the fact that punters are very underpaid a way to get almost free marginal value under the cap? That actually goes for special teams performance in general...every ounce you can squeeze out in the "third phase" is basically free since it comes down to underpaid kickers, punters, and return guys, plus coaching/culture.

why do you feel that punters are very underpaid?

[dice]

Poles is objectively doing a good job. While he has done some things that annoy the **** outa me, but he also has the luck of the devil, and has above average draft judgment. This all could’ve gone more sideways, but the reality is that NFL owners look at the bottom line.

Claypool trade, Velus Jones draft pick (everyone misses on draft picks so this one feels like a nit) and the JF1 trade are the biggest complaints with Poles right? I guess there are some who still don't like the Sweat deal too...

-bates trade
-keenan trade (old, expensive, only under contract a year, good chance we'd be getting odunze...)
-drafting 2 backup DTs when we had a wide open 3rd receiver role, passing on good WRs
-passing on long-term safety options to bring in byard
-spending money to demote herbert (could make more sense if he is traded)
-waiting 'till midseason to trade roquan
-gambling on edmunds based on 1 good season

[dice]

I think it’s pretty convenient to forget that Poles traded for Claypool because he needed a weapon to evaluate Justin properly and not because he was deciding “between tanking and not tanking”

Did the trade work out? no. But let’s not act like we weren’t on a timeline with Justin and why it needed to be done. The same reason why he was adamant about the Panthers including DJ Moore. We needed a weapon to evaluate fields especially since Claypool didn’t work.

gotta say with all due respect, making a bad trade of a valuable asset based on accepting a lot of risk just for the sake of evaluating the quarterback would be among the worst circumstances to make a trade that I can think of. That would be very questionable GM judgment. I think it was mostly just a miss by a GM that is (hopefully) still learning on the job.

i said at the time that he seemed to be trying to thread a very fine needle - help QB development/evaluation w/o winning games

if the bears were looking to contend in 2023 it would've made sense - potentially good, young WR on dirt cheap contract

[NesimLE]

Isn't the fact that punters are very underpaid a way to get almost free marginal value under the cap? That actually goes for special teams performance in general...every ounce you can squeeze out in the "third phase" is basically free since it comes down to underpaid kickers, punters, and return guys, plus coaching/culture.

why do you feel that punters are very underpaid?

Underpaid is the wrong word, to be more precise, it seems that punters have a value that is more tied to the position they happen to play than the precise on-field value provided by a given punter. Similar to how the very best players at TE won't get paid like a WR or OT, no matter how good they are. So it seems to me that the contribution they can provide could be at minimum undervalued relative to how they perform vs other punters, so there's some upside there. That doesn't mean that it'll equal the gap between what you could otherwise get with a 4th.
It's also possible though, that ALL punters are overpaid and that it's just a cost you have to bear...but needless to say, there's at least some theoretical value to a punter who is better than others at holding, throwing, running (anything that might happen on a fake punt or field goal) and of course, the thing that's in the name.

[Michael Jackson]

There is nothing to be said but it is very very very odd to draft a punter in the 4th round. You can only scratch your head. Might be a great punter for us but.... It is like the group of people suggesting drafting Janikowski in the 1st with the Urlacher pick. Ummmmmmm

[fleet]

Booker definitely has that upside developmental frame/length poles loves. He's light though for a 4/3 3 down edge. But his tape looks pretty good for only 1 year of real college ball and that frame is great and hes still only 21. Hard not to be excited about the outcome of this draft right now.

It shouldn’t be too difficult to upgrade Dominique Robinson anyway. Appropriate round for a redux.

Booker could help with Special Teams until he adds weight and strength. Maybe insert him when the Defense has the opponent on a 3rd and very long. Give him a chance to disrupt the QB.

Yeah should become a special teams performer with rotational DE upside, especially 3rd down and long. But that is a win for Poles on this pick/trade in because the Bears are desperately looking for bodies/help in ‘24 opposite Sweat. Just to let you know what is out there, some really silly people on Bears Twitter are allowing themselves to compare his draft profile and upside to Maxx Crosby. But when guys like Xavier Thomas go ahead of Austin Booker in the 5th, makes one ask what was going on with Austin Booker’s stock. His age (21) is a reason to be optimistic on him improving on what he currently has to offer.

[WestsideResider]

Lol there are certainly some takes in this thread

[Hold That]

gotta say with all due respect, making a bad trade of a valuable asset based on accepting a lot of risk just for the sake of evaluating the quarterback would be among the worst circumstances to make a trade that I can think of. That would be very questionable GM judgment. I think it was mostly just a miss by a GM that is (hopefully) still learning on the job.

Claypool was considered the best WR on the trade market at the time. Nobody thought it was a terrible trade at the time as they had multiple suitors offering 2nd rounders.

again, the bears were tanking. not all 2nd rounders are created equal. and tanking teams should not be adding talent mid-season

plenty of people questioned the trade at the time for the above obvious reasons. not to mention the high cost

I’m going to trust poles over your logic because Poles plan has worked out so far.

I think you continue to miss the big picture. Fields needed to be evaluated period. There was a 200+ million contract pending with no proper weapons to evaluate him. Our roster was crap adding a WR was not going to do anything BUT allow us to see how Fields operates with what we thought would be a competent WR corps. The defense was already gutted by that point(which secured the tank). You acting like we traded away a First rounder for claypool.

Every 2nd rounder won’t hit just like every trade won’t hit. It wasn’t a crippling move and you can understand why he did it.

[dice]

There is nothing to be said but it is very very very odd to draft a punter in the 4th round. You can only scratch your head. Might be a great punter for us but.... It is like the group of people suggesting drafting Janikowski in the 1st with the Urlacher pick. Ummmmmmm

taylor net averages, large samples:

44.2 SR
41.6 JR
42.1 SO

half the reps in COVID-shortened 2020 as frosh - 42.8

nfl avg. is around 43 w/ a slightly bigger ball. i may have underestimated the possibility that he won't be a top NFL punter

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

I’ll give Poles the benefit of the doubt with these picks. He’s done a great job rebuilding this team.

sounds like the AKME defense circa 2022. and the pace defense circa 2018

the only difference is that poles has caleb due to the initial tank and an extraordinary amount of luck. that could go a long way in overcoming bad GMing

one needs only look to jerry jones to recognize how much a good QB means. i don't think anyone would mistake jerry for an astute GM, but he's had some success

I know you would be a better gm for this team but thats not my decision.

[fleet]

There is nothing to be said but it is very very very odd to draft a punter in the 4th round. You can only scratch your head. Might be a great punter for us but.... It is like the group of people suggesting drafting Janikowski in the 1st with the Urlacher pick. Ummmmmmm

For team scouts, this draft was said to have a relatively noticeable drop off on normal quality somewhere around the 4th/5th. The value/need for the Bears must have approached the prospect value of the position players of what was left on the board. If that was the case, it might be a special circumstance to draft the punter in that spot.

[Michael Jackson]

There is nothing to be said but it is very very very odd to draft a punter in the 4th round. You can only scratch your head. Might be a great punter for us but.... It is like the group of people suggesting drafting Janikowski in the 1st with the Urlacher pick. Ummmmmmm

For team scouts, it was said to be a relatively noticeable drop off on normal quality somewhere around the 4th/5th. The value/need for the Bears must have approached the prospect value of what was left on the board. If that was the case, it might be a special circumstance to draft the punter in that spot.

I guess but yet still traded for another pick later than that for a position of need. Pretty odd. Why not just take Booker there and keep the pick. If the talent was soooo bad why are you trading a higher pick to draft a guy that was there? Very strange.

[nomorezorro]

handful of guys i'd be happy about picking up as UDFAs:

DL Gabe Hall
S Beau Brade
EDGE Gabriel Murphy
WR Jalen Coker
C Kingsley Eguakun

[Hold That]

There is nothing to be said but it is very very very odd to draft a punter in the 4th round. You can only scratch your head. Might be a great punter for us but.... It is like the group of people suggesting drafting Janikowski in the 1st with the Urlacher pick. Ummmmmmm

For team scouts, it was said to be a relatively noticeable drop off on normal quality somewhere around the 4th/5th. The value/need for the Bears must have approached the prospect value of what was left on the board. If that was the case, it might be a special circumstance to draft the punter in that spot.

I guess but yet still traded for another pick later than that for a position of need. Pretty odd. Why not just take Booker there and keep the pick. If the talent was soooo bad why are you trading a higher pick to draft a guy that was there? Very strange.

I think Poles traded back into the 5th round because Flus was clearly not happy about drafting a Punter. I strongly believe Booker was Flus’ guy and he got his guy for him.

You can see the tense interaction with Flus and Poles in the war room when the Punter was selected.

Also the Punter was mocked to go in the 4th-5th round and poles wanted him more than he wanted Booker(Flus’ guy)

[JockItch43]

we'll see how it all looks in retrospect. here's the first fruits of poles's strategy:

joey porter jr. was expected to go in the middle of the 1st round last year. the bears needed a corner. he fell out of the first round and the steelers nabbed him...with the pick the bears gave up for claypool. porter had a good rookie season

poles clearly felt that booker's value fell somewhere between 122 (punter) and 144. that's not a big difference at that stage of the draft. and i find it hard to believe that one draft differs much from another talent-wise when you get to that point in the draft

Poles detractors will be talking about Chase claypool for a 2nd rounder for the next 4-5 seasons.


If that’s been his biggest mistake thus far we’re in very good shape in comparison to other regimes.


Despite us getting Stevenson the NEXT ROUND who cares about Porter Jr. when we got someone arguably better.

Look at the total return we got for Bryce Young, and then tell me Poles is a lousy GM:

Darnell Wright, Stevenson, DJ Moore, Caleb Williams, and 2025 2nd round pick.

That trade alone has vaulted us from just another team trying to rebuild, to one of the most promising young rosters in the league.

And then he just attributes it to luck lmao. There's no convincing this guy of anything... he has his mind made up.

[fleet]

There is nothing to be said but it is very very very odd to draft a punter in the 4th round. You can only scratch your head. Might be a great punter for us but.... It is like the group of people suggesting drafting Janikowski in the 1st with the Urlacher pick. Ummmmmmm

For team scouts, it was said to be a relatively noticeable drop off on normal quality somewhere around the 4th/5th. The value/need for the Bears must have approached the prospect value of what was left on the board. If that was the case, it might be a special circumstance to draft the punter in that spot.

I guess but yet still traded for another pick later than that for a position of need. Pretty odd. Why not just take Booker there and keep the pick. If the talent was soooo bad why are you trading a higher pick to draft a guy that was there? Very strange.

Ah. Don’t get your hopes up on Booker indeed. And also, while I actually don’t mind the trade-in in this instance, as previously mentioned Poles often has a tendency to do things under pressure with picks that annoy the crap outa me. Desperate times.

[Michael Jackson]

For team scouts, it was said to be a relatively noticeable drop off on normal quality somewhere around the 4th/5th. The value/need for the Bears must have approached the prospect value of what was left on the board. If that was the case, it might be a special circumstance to draft the punter in that spot.

I guess but yet still traded for another pick later than that for a position of need. Pretty odd. Why not just take Booker there and keep the pick. If the talent was soooo bad why are you trading a higher pick to draft a guy that was there? Very strange.

Ah. Don’t get your hopes up on Booker indeed. And also, while I actually don’t mind the trade-in in this instance, as previously mentioned Poles often has a tendency to do things under pressure with picks that annoy the crap outa me. Desperate times.

I don't have a ton of hope for Booker. He might be good but just as likely not. The point is wasting a pick next year... hmmmm