Your offseason plans for the Bulls

[SfBull]

Not sure if Vuc is tradable by now.

[jnrjr79]

Plan is to keep Demar and are offering him really good money. It is also known that Demar would prefer to stay in Chicago as well. Bulls will make changes to the roster this offseason to try to get better and that should satisfy him.

Can things fall apart during negotiations ? Ofcourse he’s a FA but as far as we know it looks like Demar will resign. In the end money talks, is another team going to give him 40 mil or anything close ? If not then it’s a lock. No way Demar is taking a pay cut on his last big contract as a pro.

As for Zach he’s getting traded whether Demar stays or leaves. Bulls and Zach relationship is over and both sides are ready to move on.

Do we want the Bulls to give Demar $40 million? Is that good team building? I don't want to meet him at that number.

I think the Bulls / Lavine relationship is basically over. I just wonder if they'd be more inclined to try and rebuild his value if he has a credible chance to be a 1st option here.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but the reports are that the Bulls already offered Demar 2/80. The hang up is that he wants 3 years.

I agree with burlydee that the logical thing here is to just let Demar walk and keep Zach as a #1 option. Let him fill the box score and see if you can get better trade offers later.

Sadly, the real Bulls don't think like this.

FWIW, that was a KC report and he said something to the effect of "may have been as much as" $40M/year. He hedged a bit on the exact number, but said it was substantial.

My guess here is the Bulls are basically trying to line up DeMar with the Vooch contract and are committed to remaining "competitive" in that window, with a tear-down only possibly happening after that point. That'll line up with the Coby and Ayo contracts as well.

[TheSuzerain]

Do we want the Bulls to give Demar $40 million? Is that good team building? I don't want to meet him at that number.

I think the Bulls / Lavine relationship is basically over. I just wonder if they'd be more inclined to try and rebuild his value if he has a credible chance to be a 1st option here.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but the reports are that the Bulls already offered Demar 2/80. The hang up is that he wants 3 years.

I agree with burlydee that the logical thing here is to just let Demar walk and keep Zach as a #1 option. Let him fill the box score and see if you can get better trade offers later.

Sadly, the real Bulls don't think like this.

FWIW, that was a KC report and he said something to the effect of "may have been as much as" $40M/year. He hedged a bit on the exact number, but said it was substantial.

My guess here is the Bulls are basically trying to line up DeMar with the Vooch contract and are committed to remaining "competitive" in that window, with a tear-down only possibly happening after that point. That'll line up with the Coby and Ayo contracts as well.

I agree this is what will happen but it's quite pathetic.

And if it goes as anticipated (Bulls in play-in), I don't see how AK and Donovan aren't relieved of their duties by the end of the 2 years.

[jnrjr79]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong but the reports are that the Bulls already offered Demar 2/80. The hang up is that he wants 3 years.

I agree with burlydee that the logical thing here is to just let Demar walk and keep Zach as a #1 option. Let him fill the box score and see if you can get better trade offers later.

Sadly, the real Bulls don't think like this.

FWIW, that was a KC report and he said something to the effect of "may have been as much as" $40M/year. He hedged a bit on the exact number, but said it was substantial.

My guess here is the Bulls are basically trying to line up DeMar with the Vooch contract and are committed to remaining "competitive" in that window, with a tear-down only possibly happening after that point. That'll line up with the Coby and Ayo contracts as well.

I agree this is what will happen but it's quite pathetic.

And if it goes as anticipated (Bulls in play-in), I don't see how AK and Donovan aren't relieved of their duties by the end of the 2 years.

I am not sure if AK will be fired, just given how long this ownership group has been willing to stick with front offices, but it would certainly be justified.

As to Billy, I wonder how strongly he'd even want to stick around after 2 more middling seasons, and I could certainly see the FO trying to keep their jobs by letting him go.

And yes, this seems to be the plan, and it's a terrible plan.

[TheSuzerain]

FWIW, that was a KC report and he said something to the effect of "may have been as much as" $40M/year. He hedged a bit on the exact number, but said it was substantial.

My guess here is the Bulls are basically trying to line up DeMar with the Vooch contract and are committed to remaining "competitive" in that window, with a tear-down only possibly happening after that point. That'll line up with the Coby and Ayo contracts as well.

I agree this is what will happen but it's quite pathetic.

And if it goes as anticipated (Bulls in play-in), I don't see how AK and Donovan aren't relieved of their duties by the end of the 2 years.

I am not sure if AK will be fired, just given how long this ownership group has been willing to stick with front offices, but it would certainly be justified.

As to Billy, I wonder how strongly he'd even want to stick around after 2 more middling seasons, and I could certainly see the FO trying to keep their jobs by letting him go.

And yes, this seems to be the plan, and it's a terrible plan.

Ownership was willing to stick with front offices that actually made the playoffs.

AK is essentially breaking the one rule we always joke about Reinsdorf having.

[jnrjr79]

I agree this is what will happen but it's quite pathetic.

And if it goes as anticipated (Bulls in play-in), I don't see how AK and Donovan aren't relieved of their duties by the end of the 2 years.

I am not sure if AK will be fired, just given how long this ownership group has been willing to stick with front offices, but it would certainly be justified.

As to Billy, I wonder how strongly he'd even want to stick around after 2 more middling seasons, and I could certainly see the FO trying to keep their jobs by letting him go.

And yes, this seems to be the plan, and it's a terrible plan.

Ownership was willing to stick with front offices that actually made the playoffs.

AK is essentially breaking the one rule we always joke about Reinsdorf having.

True enough.

The one other question I also have is after Jerry is no longer around, does Michael keep operating things in the same fashion or is there some hope here for a Rocky Wirtz situation?

[Red8911]

Not sure if Vuc is tradable by now.

Everyone is tradable,the point is not to just trade him but to also make the team better. This is where AK needs to step up his game and get creative.Thats his job and the reason hes getting paid a lot of money.

[TheSuzerain]

Derozan to Clippers and Paul George to Team X. Clippers and Bulls split return from Team X.

[sco]

Derozan to Clippers and Paul George to Team X. Clippers and Bulls split return from Team X.

IMO a S&T to the Lakers would be better for us.

[TheSuzerain]

Derozan to Clippers and Paul George to Team X. Clippers and Bulls split return from Team X.

IMO a S&T to the Lakers would be better for us.

For what though? I feel like Derozan is an awful fit for them anyway.

Lavine to Lakers makes more sense basketball-wise.

Unless LeBron bails somehow then who knows.

[sco]

Derozan to Clippers and Paul George to Team X. Clippers and Bulls split return from Team X.

IMO a S&T to the Lakers would be better for us.

For what though? I feel like Derozan is an awful fit for them anyway.

Lavine to Lakers makes more sense basketball-wise.

Unless LeBron bails somehow then who knows.

I'm thinking a package including Rui and Vincent for $ reasons, but I really covet Reaves and Vandy...doubt LA includes either, but they definitely needed another scorer who could get his own shot.

[MrSparkle]

IMO a S&T to the Lakers would be better for us.

For what though? I feel like Derozan is an awful fit for them anyway.

Lavine to Lakers makes more sense basketball-wise.

Unless LeBron bails somehow then who knows.

I'm thinking a package including Rui and Vincent for $ reasons, but I really covet Reaves and Vandy...doubt LA includes either, but they definitely needed another scorer who could get his own shot.

Good points. Lakers' assets aren't strong enough to get the player of their dreams.

Now also, they are probably very eager to replace D'Lo with a higher ceiling scorer (Zach).

Gabe and Vanderbilt's injuries came at a bad time, as Lebron's time is winding down. With D'Lo, those guys add up to $40M, and they had rough seasons. It's a swing but getting Zach healthy and motivated as a #3 option would probably be Lakers' best chance.

Interestingly Pelicans COULD decide to skip on Lakers' 2024 pick and opt to wait for 2025. It's a bad draft and it's a #17, so it's maybe not in Pelicans best interests to take this, esp. with Lebron turning 40 before the end of the year. If Lakers keep their 17th pick on draft night, I think Lakers and Bulls could make this trade. I also think Jevon would make sense for LA, off the bench (taller roster, they could play him more like Milwaukee did) - especially if they hire Bud.

So final trade:

D'Lo, Gabe, Vanderbilt, #17 (or a protected 2029 FRP), and maybe two 2nds
Zach, Jevon

I think you can pump and dump D'Lo and Gabe. On the bright side, they shoot 3Ps. Of course Billy would have a really fun time running this line-up:

PG Coby
SG D'Lo
SF Ayo
PF Gabe
C Vanderbilt

Honestly though, I like the prospects of tanking for the top-4 pick. Move on from Caruso and Demar, ideally via trade/S&T.

[Muzbar]

Good points. Lakers' assets aren't strong enough to get the player of their dreams.

Now also, they are probably very eager to replace D'Lo with a higher ceiling scorer (Zach).

Gabe and Vanderbilt's injuries came at a bad time, as Lebron's time is winding down. With D'Lo, those guys add up to $40M, and they had rough seasons. It's a swing but getting Zach healthy and motivated as a #3 option would probably be Lakers' best chance.

Interestingly Pelicans COULD decide to skip on Lakers' 2024 pick and opt to wait for 2025. It's a bad draft and it's a #17, so it's maybe not in Pelicans best interests to take this, esp. with Lebron turning 40 before the end of the year. If Lakers keep their 17th pick on draft night, I think Lakers and Bulls could make this trade. I also think Jevon would make sense for LA, off the bench (taller roster, they could play him more like Milwaukee did) - especially if they hire Bud.

So final trade:

D'Lo, Gabe, Vanderbilt, #17 (or a protected 2029 FRP), and maybe two 2nds
Zach, Jevon

I think you can pump and dump D'Lo and Gabe. On the bright side, they shoot 3Ps. Of course Billy would have a really fun time running this line-up:

PG Coby
SG D'Lo
SF Ayo
PF Gabe
C Vanderbilt

Honestly though, I like the prospects of tanking for the top-4 pick. Move on from Caruso and Demar, ideally via trade/S&T.

That trade doesn't work financially, if you remove Jevon Carter it works.

Also, D-Lo would need to opt into his final year as he has a player option.

Vanderbilt and the #17 pick (if NO opt not to take it) would be an alright haul, plus the expiring of D-Lo.

There's a lot of variables to make this trade work, but I don't mind it either way.

[Rose2Boozer]

Derozan to Clippers and Paul George to Team X. Clippers and Bulls split return from Team X.

What if Paul George try to go back to the Pacers. It could be the Sixers, but that front office should be looking for guys who fits Embiid's timeline.

[jnrjr79]

Derozan to Clippers and Paul George to Team X. Clippers and Bulls split return from Team X.

What if Paul George try to go back to the Pacers. It could be the Sixers, but that front office should be looking for guys who fits Embiid's timeline.

Embiid is 30 with major injury issues. Any established player fits his timeline.

[Jcool0]

Good points. Lakers' assets aren't strong enough to get the player of their dreams.

Now also, they are probably very eager to replace D'Lo with a higher ceiling scorer (Zach).

Gabe and Vanderbilt's injuries came at a bad time, as Lebron's time is winding down. With D'Lo, those guys add up to $40M, and they had rough seasons. It's a swing but getting Zach healthy and motivated as a #3 option would probably be Lakers' best chance.

Interestingly Pelicans COULD decide to skip on Lakers' 2024 pick and opt to wait for 2025. It's a bad draft and it's a #17, so it's maybe not in Pelicans best interests to take this, esp. with Lebron turning 40 before the end of the year. If Lakers keep their 17th pick on draft night, I think Lakers and Bulls could make this trade. I also think Jevon would make sense for LA, off the bench (taller roster, they could play him more like Milwaukee did) - especially if they hire Bud.

So final trade:

D'Lo, Gabe, Vanderbilt, #17 (or a protected 2029 FRP), and maybe two 2nds
Zach, Jevon

I think you can pump and dump D'Lo and Gabe. On the bright side, they shoot 3Ps. Of course Billy would have a really fun time running this line-up:

PG Coby
SG D'Lo
SF Ayo
PF Gabe
C Vanderbilt

Honestly though, I like the prospects of tanking for the top-4 pick. Move on from Caruso and Demar, ideally via trade/S&T.

That trade doesn't work financially, if you remove Jevon Carter it works.

Also, D-Lo would need to opt into his final year as he has a player option.

Vanderbilt and the #17 pick (if NO opt not to take it) would be an alright haul, plus the expiring of D-Lo.

There's a lot of variables to make this trade work, but I don't mind it either way.

I say no to LA unless Reeves is part of the trade. Russell is going to opt out of his contract i don't think the Bulls are changing his mind unless they are going to sign him to a longer contract.

[rosenthall]

It's hard to advocate for anything other than using the next year to wind down the big 3 in the best way possible.

S&T DeMar for whatever we can get or let him walk. There's no future with him here at 40/m year.

Resign Pat to a 3/45 mil contract.

Trade Caruso for the best package we can, which might be what allows us to unload Vuc and Carter.

Resign Drummond to a 2/20 deal with year 2 a PO.

Cut Terry in October if he still can't shoot. This is a league where Derrick Jones Jr. makes the league minimum.

Trade Zach and Vuc at the deadline. Zac will have the season to prove he's healthy, Vuc will be 1/2 season closer to expiring. Pay someone to take Carter if we have to.

Keep our SA pick, pray we luck into a good prospect.

Going into 2025 we'd have Ayo, Coby, Pat, Phillips, 2024 pick, 2025 pick. Maybe Terry if he improves. That leaves us with 55-60 million in salary, Ayo, Coby & Pat all on value deals, and enough cap space for two 7 year max contracts. Around 100 million in Cap Space total. Go all out that year to acquire as much talent as possible, even if we overpay a little bit. Pray it's enough to get us to at least 45 wins to justify paying up for Coby and Ayo. Be good for the next 2-3 years, hoping you have a chance to put together a trade for another impact player when the time is right.

[sco]

It's hard to advocate for anything other than using the next year to wind down the big 3 in the best way possible.

S&T DeMar for whatever we can get or let him walk. There's no future with him here at 40/m year.

Resign Pat to a 3/45 mil contract.

Trade Caruso for the best package we can, which might be what allows us to unload Vuc and Carter.

Resign Drummond to a 2/20 deal with year 2 a PO.

Cut Terry in October if he still can't shoot. This is a league where Derrick Jones Jr. makes the league minimum.

Trade Zach and Vuc at the deadline. Zac will have the season to prove he's healthy, Vuc will be 1/2 season closer to expiring. Pay someone to take Carter if we have to.

Keep our SA pick, pray we luck into a good prospect.

Going into 2025 we'd have Ayo, Coby, Pat, Phillips, 2024 pick, 2025 pick. Maybe Terry if he improves. That leaves us with 55-60 million in salary, Ayo, Coby & Pat all on value deals, and enough cap space for two 7 year max contracts. Around 100 million in Cap Space total. Go all out that year to acquire as much talent as possible, even if we overpay a little bit. Pray it's enough to get us to at least 45 wins to justify paying up for Coby and Ayo. Be good for the next 2-3 years, hoping you have a chance to put together a trade for another impact player when the time is right.

Yeah this is what I'd do. Next season should be all about setting ourselves up with fewer constraints into the following-season. It's gonna be next to impossible to do so without tanking, so I'm sure AK won't be on board.

I'm not even all that negative on holding onto Vuc and Carter as they aren't horrific off the bench and I'd rather get all we could from an AC trade in terms of positive assets (vs. offsetting negative value of those two) as turning this thing around will require a bit of luck.

I don't want to keep Terry because Billy likes him too much and will play him even with zero offense in his game. I'd rather take a swing on a top g-league prospect.

[patryk7754]

I'll start by saying the ideal strategy for our offseason should be converting LAvine into a rebuilt front court and using Vuc to add cheap depth and using both trades to add cap flexibility. Below of "best case scenario" trades that are a bit unrealistic but might work.

Seems like the FO is completely against tanking but still want to get rid of Lavine, I think our best strategy may be rebuilding the front court and then keeping the rest of the team intact. This three team is probably a bit of a reach but it's the ideal return in this type of Lavine based trade. (also idk if these trades would work money wise since trade machine hasn't updated for the offseason yet)

Lavine to the Cavs
Jarret Allen to the Timberwolves (maybe a pick to the wolves as well)
Evan Mobley and Naz Reid to the Bulls

I think the least likely team to accept this trade is the Wolves. They'd increase the cap hit for their backup center while loosing Reid's three point shooting. They could be convinced that Allen's interior defense is a big enough upgrade to let Reid go via trade. They could also see it as an opportunity to flip Rudy (who has sky high value now as a 4 time DPOY) for a star PG since Connley is soon to retire.

I think it's definitely possible for the Cavs to agree to this trade. They'd have to make the decision to sacrifice defense for offense but after these playoffs I think it would be an easier decision for them. They can significantly upgrade their offense and get good enough replacements in via FA (Drumond, Love, Batum, Wagner, Valancunis, Harenstien) to fill out the front court.

Kinda of a no brainer for the Bulls you get off Lavines contract add elite defense. With Reid's 3pt shooting, he can stretch the floor and he's a great compliment to Mobley. We go from having a terrible front court on defense to maybe the best.



After the Lavine trade, Vuevic would be up next. I think the most likely trade partner would be the Mavs. They have a lot of redundancy with their big men. All but Washington are defensive guys with little to contribute on defense. Something like Gafford and Josh Green would be great additions, but I think it would be best for us to move them to a third team to gain more cap flexibility and maybe a pick.

I would also see if we could package White and Vuc and see if we could upgrade PG. It seems like there might be some decent ones available this offseason, with the most notable being Young. There's a near zero chance of upgrading PG using White and Vuc as the main trade piece of working but worth exploring. An ideal but realistic return for Vuc could look something like this

Vuc to the Mavs
Dwight Powell to the Heat
Josh Green and 2nd round picks from Heat and Mavs to bulls

If we resign Damar at 30m (because 40m is insane) we'd have roughly 25m in cap after the Lavine and Vuc trades. We could use that money on some scoring off the bench (Malik Monk/Tobis Harris). We could also opt to not resign Damar and break the bank for Siakam. So our team could look like one of two ways....

White/Carter
Damar/Ayo
Caruso/Green
Mobley/Harris
Reid/FA or Draft

---or--

White/Carter
Caruso/Ayo
Siakam/Green
Mobely/FA or Draft
Reid/FA or Draft

[League Circles]

I wonder if a trade could be made that is Vuc and Carter for Chris Paul. Who says no?